Michael Hood at Blatherwatch puts it in perspective.
The Human Cost of Occupation
American Deaths: 4082
Iraqi Deaths Due to US invasion: 1,213,716
American Wounded:
Official: 30,329
Estimated: 23,000-100,000
I also think 1.2 million is far fetched. think of the math 365 days x 7 years of war = 2555 days thats 1500000 (divided by) 2555 days =587.08 deaths a day which is total bull.
CherylCarroll:
I think that people who cheerlead this war should do thier patriotic duty and serve. It’s easy to be an armchair quarterback like Hannity and Limbaugh. They sit in their nice safe American office, far away from the fighting and suggest our young fight for “freedom”.
By the way, in case you didn’t know, Rush Limbaugh got a deferment from serving in Viet Nam because he had a cyst on his ass (ironic that all he does now is sit on his rear).
Another great war cheerleader, Dick Cheney, received four deferments so he wouldn’t have to serve in VietNam.
Gotta love those conservative values: “You send your kid to die, but don’t ask my kid to sacrifice”.
Flap also said: “It’s hard to take “Haywood Jablomey” seriously after a while,”
ha ha, LOL. I have to stop giggling at his name before reading his posts.
That’s funny that you found something to agree with Epiphany on. :-D
TDro said: “Hey Flap:
Have you considered serving in Bush’s war? They’re always looking for a few good men. I mean, I’m sure a fine upstanding person as yourself would want to show Bush your support by serving, don’t you?”
TDro~ I think that you asked this for effect, to help get your point across… you don’t really believe that if a person doesn’t join the military that they don’t support Bush or are unpatriotic do you?
Flap said: “That 1.2 million Iraqi deaths…I’m not sure where Big A got that figure, but I dispute it.”
Flap, that site lists DOCUMENTED civilian deaths. You dig? In a country like Iraq, every civilian’s birth and death is not going to be documented. I seriously doubt the figure is only 90k. Alan prob got his figure from the following site, or from an affiliate thereof:
Here’s where I find common ground. No one really wants war. It’s ugly. It not only kills, but it separates families from dads. Trust me, I know, after spending twenty years in the navy and going through deployments six or more months at a time, it’s painful enough. It was bad enough when I had to leave for Desert Storm and leave my four month old son behind, along with my 2 yo daughter and wife.
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I’d like to see the untimely divorces of military men who struggle to hold together their families.
I’d like to see the problem children who haven’t had a father in years. And those who can barely remember them.
I’d like to see the depression of returning military men who are facing a system barely able to deal with their darkness.
I’d like to see the mental anguish and physical toll of Americans across the country who see no end to this war and despair every day we continue to fight.
I’d like to see how worse it’s all going to get before it gets better.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Al for people who can’t decide which side to go with untill they see who’s going to win!
What a F’ING waste of good Americans!
Don’t wonder why your gas and economy is f’ed up either; ITS CUZ OF THE WAR!
Time [past time] to scale WAY back and give it to the Iraq’s.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Nice gift George Bush gave our grandchildren!
Bozillions of dollars in dept and nothing but Wal Mart and McDonalds JOBS for them to PAY IT OFF.
Priceless George !
May 26th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Post-War Suicides May Exceed Combat Deaths, U.S. Says
By Avram Goldstein
May 5 (Bloomberg) — The number of suicides among veterans of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll because of inadequate mental health care, the U.S. government’s top psychiatric researcher said.
Community mental health centers, hobbled by financial limits, haven’t provided enough scientifically sound care, especially in rural areas, said Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland. He briefed reporters today at the American Psychiatric Association’s annual meeting in Washington.
Insel echoed a Rand Corporation study published last month that found about 20 percent of returning U.S. soldiers have post- traumatic stress disorder or depression, and only half of them receive treatment. About 1.6 million U.S. troops have fought in the two wars since October 2001, the report said. About 4,560 soldiers had died in the conflicts as of today, the Defense Department reported on its Web site.
Based on those figures and established suicide rates for similar patients who commonly develop substance abuse and other complications of post-traumatic stress disorder, “it’s quite possible that the suicides and psychiatric mortality of this war could trump the combat deaths,” Insel said.
Post-traumatic stress disorder, known as PTSD, is the failure to cope after a major shock, such as an auto accident, a rape or combat, Insel said. PTSD may remain dormant for months or years before it surfaces, and in about 10 percent of cases people never recover, he said.
Difficult to Predict
“We don’t yet know how to predict who is going to be the person to be most concerned about,” Insel said.
The Pentagon didn’t dispute Insel’s remark.
“The department takes the issue of suicide very seriously, and one suicide is too many,” said spokeswoman Cynthia Smith in an e-mail.
The department has expanded efforts to encourage soldiers and veterans not to feel stigmatized if they seek mental health treatment, Smith said.
Soldiers who’d been exposed to combat trauma were the most likely to suffer from depression or PTSD, the Rand report said. About 53 percent of soldiers with those conditions sought treatment during the past year. Half of those who got care were judged by Rand researchers to have received inadequate treatment.
Failure to adequately treat the mental and neurological problems of returning soldiers can cause a chain of negative events in the lives of affected veterans, the researchers said. About 300,000 soldiers suffer from depression or PTSD, the report said.
Treatment Options
Researchers aren’t sure whether it’s appropriate to treat such patients with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, a class of medications that include Prozac, and other anti- depressants, Insel said. His institute is examining that question and novel treatments for PTSD, including using so-called virtual reality technology.
The psychiatric association reported last week that a survey of 191 military members and their spouses found 32 percent said their duty hurt their mental health, and six in 10 believed seeking treatment would damage their careers.
More than 15,000 psychiatrists are attending the professional group’s meeting.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&refer=home&sid=a2_71Klo2vig
May 26th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“Earlier this year, using the clout that only major broadcast networks seem capable of mustering, CBS News contacted the governments of all 50 states requesting their official records of death by suicide going back 12 years. They heard back from 45 of the 50. From the mountains of gathered information, they sifted out the suicides of those Americans who had served in the armed forces. What they discovered is that in 2005 alone — and remember, this is just in 45 states — there were at least 6,256 veteran suicides, 120 every week for a year and an average of 17 every day.”
From: 120 War Vets Commit Suicide Each Week
November 26, 2007
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/68713/
May 26th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
sighhhh–
i hate this war.
And it’s all because of oil?
I am glad i am out of the military because it was becoming HELL.
I love this country but what about those that die on Memorial DAY?
God bless them all, they’re just doing their job.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/news/mhat/mhat.html
May 26th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
the cost of war is always high alan. but freedom for the captive is an unmeasurable reward.
“Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier.”
- Senator Zell Miller (D-GA), RNC – 9/1/04
on a day like today i think of the reward because of the sacrifice. just a thought.
May 26th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
this is depressing.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Why is it that if you think this fiasco of a war is bullshit your patriotism is questioned? Yet 100,000 vets are homeless. What about the fuckin G.I. Bill? McCain’s no-vote on that is going to bite him in the ass this election. The same people that say support the troops don’t really care about the aftermath of the mental health of the military. The same people that are terrified the 2nd amendment is going to be taken away from them don’t seem to give a shit about the 4th amendment. The Far Right must be a lonely, intolerant, hate-filled existence. I’m glad they’ll be washed out of Washington. Like a giant toilet being flushed. I’m just sayin…
May 26th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Haywood said:
“Like a giant toilet being flushed. I’m just sayin…”
LMAO, man
Patriotism is typically only questioned by conservatives. You HAVE to support the WAR, you can’t just support the TROOPS. Patriotism and war are viewed the same way as abortion- they don’t want you to kill your baby, but once the baby gets here they don’t give a damn about you or your child.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Yes, the far right is evil…wanting to protect this country against terrorism, wanting to protect unborn children, wanting to equip people to help themselves versus be dependent upon some government teat.
40,000,000 civilians died in WWII. 22,000,000 soldiers. War is hell. The numbers in and of themselves should not either bless or damn the war. You can’t have an antiseptic war.
That 1.2 million Iraqi deaths…I’m not sure where Big A got that figure, but I dispute it. Did some leftist group conjure that number out of thin air? Iraq Body Count, a database of civilian deaths (versus conjecture), which is NOT a pro-war site by far, estimates it closer to 90,000. I’m not saying that’s a *good* thing, but a much more believable number than 1.2 million.
It’s hard to take “Haywood Jablomey” seriously after a while, but how is the far-right hate-filled? Based on what? I keep seeing nonsense like that with little to justify it. WHO is spouting forth hate? Because right-wingers generally don’t espouse leftist social policies, that means we are haters? Total B.S. And you think Obama will beat McCain? I doubt it.
And I can’t believe it, but I actually agree with Epiphany insofar as ANY soldier who serves should have whatever healthcare is needed to treat combat-related maladies, whether mental or physical. We owe them that much. Whatever the cost. If veterans are committing suicides based on inadequate mental healthcare, that’s a travesty to say the very least.
God bless our soldiers…irrespective of your positive or negative view on this war or any war!
May 27th, 2008 at 1:23 am
And a Happy memorial day to you too grim reaper!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Hey Flap:
Have you considered serving in Bush’s war? They’re always looking for a few good men. I mean, I’m sure a fine upstanding person as yourself would want to show Bush your support by serving, don’t you?
May 27th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
BTW Flap:
You want to hear hate filled rants? Just tune into Fox “News”. They’re constantly bashing the Democrats. As a matter of fact, on a daily basis you can always hear Hannity bash Obama on his pastor. You say that’s old news? Hannity’s still rehashing the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky crap since there’s no new scandal brewing on the Democratic side.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Hannity is a fool. Poor Alan…
May 27th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
War leaves scars many never see or know about. It affects more than the soldier and his immediate family. We all pay in some way.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Here’s where I find common ground. No one really wants war. It’s ugly. It not only kills, but it separates families from dads. Trust me, I know, after spending twenty years in the navy and going through deployments six or more months at a time, it’s painful enough. It was bad enough when I had to leave for Desert Storm and leave my four month old son behind, along with my 2 yo daughter and wife.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Flap said: “That 1.2 million Iraqi deaths…I’m not sure where Big A got that figure, but I dispute it.”
Flap, that site lists DOCUMENTED civilian deaths. You dig? In a country like Iraq, every civilian’s birth and death is not going to be documented. I seriously doubt the figure is only 90k. Alan prob got his figure from the following site, or from an affiliate thereof:
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html
May 27th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Flap also said: “It’s hard to take “Haywood Jablomey” seriously after a while,”
ha ha, LOL. I have to stop giggling at his name before reading his posts.
That’s funny that you found something to agree with Epiphany on. :-D
TDro said: “Hey Flap:
Have you considered serving in Bush’s war? They’re always looking for a few good men. I mean, I’m sure a fine upstanding person as yourself would want to show Bush your support by serving, don’t you?”
TDro~ I think that you asked this for effect, to help get your point across… you don’t really believe that if a person doesn’t join the military that they don’t support Bush or are unpatriotic do you?
May 27th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
CherylCarroll:
I think that people who cheerlead this war should do thier patriotic duty and serve. It’s easy to be an armchair quarterback like Hannity and Limbaugh. They sit in their nice safe American office, far away from the fighting and suggest our young fight for “freedom”.
By the way, in case you didn’t know, Rush Limbaugh got a deferment from serving in Viet Nam because he had a cyst on his ass (ironic that all he does now is sit on his rear).
Another great war cheerleader, Dick Cheney, received four deferments so he wouldn’t have to serve in VietNam.
Gotta love those conservative values: “You send your kid to die, but don’t ask my kid to sacrifice”.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I also think 1.2 million is far fetched. think of the math 365 days x 7 years of war = 2555 days thats 1500000 (divided by) 2555 days =587.08 deaths a day which is total bull.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:26 am