Are You An American First? Or Do You Have A New Consciousness?
June 29th, 2008, 11:26 AM EDT
The new world has to be a shift in our identity. Is Deepak Chopra’s newest family member Indian, Chinese, American, Chindian, Chimerican? Nationalism, he says, quoting Krishna, is a sophisticated from of tribalism. It is idolatry, and patriotism is its cult. Young Chopra is beyond nationalism, but is a citizen of the cosmos. If we viewed ourselves in these terms, perhaps we could get away from bigotry, racism, jingoism, The envirnment is our extended body, and doesn’t stop at the border’s edge.
Don’t Republicans think they’re Republicans first before Americans? I know they want everyone that’s not like them out…
June 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Howard Zinn has an essay on nationalism in his book A POWER THE GOVERNMENTS CANNOT SUPPRESS (I think that’s the title, I loaned the book to a friend).
Nationalism isn’t all bad. It aids in the survival of our country, thereby aiding in our survival. Although I’m a firm believer in making yourself a “spiritual” person first (whether that spirituality is the form of religion or humanism), a family-oriented person second, and a nationalist third.
Interesting post, Alan.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
FuryUs~ in my opinion, Repubs fall into two distinct categories- Christian and Financial.
You feel me?
June 29th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Let’s see I am a American who is Christian. I just tend to vote Republican. I can not account for all Repulicans, but there are likely some Republicans who get the words American and Republican confused.
It should be religion before country. There is a danger that a person can be so proud of one’s country that he or she might turn nationalism into a religon. Anything can become a religion and anything or anyone can become worshiped with or without their approvial.
June 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Ohhhhhhhhh great post Alan! I feel the same way and have for decades!
I feel great disdain for nationalism sometimes. Nationalism gave us Nazi Germany and Adolf Hitler. When it becomes too extreme that is the end result. It becomes a negative and an excuse to hate and hurt other people who are different. It can truly be like a cult. I see nothing wrong with having some pride and sentimental affection for your home country. Many times have I waved my little American flag and ooohed and ahhhed at the fireworks on July 4th. But that’s as far as I take it. I have great respect for other people and other countries. I appreciate what is different and don’t necessarily feel that my country is always BEST or always right. There is good and bad in the history and culture of every foreign land including my own. I think some of this extreme nationalism is incredibly juvenile and very silly behavior coming from a lot of scared insecure people. “My blah blah blah is better than your blah blah blah”.
I recognize that other countries can do this too and I think anywhere that attitude takes hold, it can be destructive. But it is particularly destructive in America where being American is not even really your blood. It is your nationality but your ethnicity can be from anywhere and mixed as well. Mine is.
I don’t need the American flag shoved in my face and down my throat to feel good about my country. And there is nothing wrong with recognizing our mistakes and the horrors of our history and culture as well. Or speaking out about it.
June 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
YES!
Human. I am definitely human first. I, too, am bringing up my child to be a citizen of the world. (lol, he asked his friend: “are you an american, or a vegetarian?”)
I would feel more comfortable being nationalistic, maybe, if my heritage wasn’t from 10 different countries. At this point, we’re so mixed, we might as well just all be one big family.
June 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I forgot to answer…
Are You An American First?
I am a Milky Way Earthian Human from Manhattan who likes politics, Tom Petty, horror movies, Monty Python and long walks along the Hudson River. Please include phone number and pic.
June 29th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I’m of myriad nations, too, so it’s said, but finding proof is difficult. For the most part, I’m of Scottish, Polish and Ukrainian extraction; maybe some Scandinavian (Finnish and, or, Swedish).
June 29th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
If nationalism is tribalism then the Democratic party IS the most dangerous [GANG] in America!!!!!
To blindly follow the party is FOOLISH and very dangerous.
The democrats are the good guys and the republicans are the bad guys ?
What a ship of FOOLS you are on here!!!!
I renounce them both!!!!!!!!
REVOLUTION at the polls ! Vote the bastards OUT !!!!!!!!!!
June 29th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
I am of almost all German heritage.My Ancestors showed up here in the midwest in the late 1800s.Can I consider my myself German American? Hell who knows..
June 29th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
this sounds like a topic only frank zappa could relate to.
June 29th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Listening to the Best of Alan Colmes on XM.I need to get the podcast.Hell of an interview with Nugent Alan.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
“Citizen of the cosmos”? If we take a New Age view on life, doesn’t that take away how special and unique we are in the eyes of God? What do I care if Epiphany likes Monty Python? Nihilism or Higher Power-ism. Only logical choices.
Why is tribalism wrong? We’re Americans. We believe in certain things, and that’s why we fight over these political issues so as to try to elucidate what we as a tribe believe. It may be “primitive” but human beings are primitive in many ways.
I’m a Christian American Conservative, in that order. My faith, my country, my ideology. Sometimes those mix together. Every other identifier to me is not that important.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
So you have seperated yourself from others by your religion then?I dont care what people believe.I am of christian origin but I dont follow it blindly.I have come to understand that whatever you believe in is because it lets a person sleep better at night.All if it is ok with me as long as the radicals of either side dont go of the reservation…
June 29th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
I enjoy reading posts from intolerant, spiteful christians…
June 30th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Fury is among us……
June 30th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Flap said: ““Citizen of the cosmos”? If we take a New Age view on life, doesn’t that take away how special and unique we are in the eyes of God?”
That depends on the person’s opinion of God (or lack thereof).
June 30th, 2008 at 12:07 am
I agree Cheryl.Cant we just all exist no matter what we have faith in.Why does somebody always have to be right.Cant we debate and agree to disagree.Especially on a subject where no one person has any proof but faith.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Flapper~ this quotes for you, but obviously other people will read it and comment if they want. It’s really just something that made me think, and you and I have very similar opinions on abortion and parental rights.
“A consequentalist of utilitarian is likely to approach the abortion question in a very different way, by trying to weigh up suffering. Does the embryo suffer? (Presumably not if it is aborted before it has a nervous system; and even if it is old enough to have a nervous system it surely suffers less than, say, an adult cow in a slaughterhouse.) Does the pregnant woman, or her family, suffer if she does not have an abortion? Very possibly so; and, in any case, given that the embryo lacks a nervous system, shouldn’t the mother’s well-developed nervous system have the choice?
This is not to deny that a consequentialist might have grounds to oppose abortion. “Slippery slope” arguments can be framed by consequentialists… Maybe embryos don’t suffer, but a culture that tolerates the taking of human life risks going too far: where will it all end? In infanticide?…”
This is from THE GOD DELUSION, by Richard Dawkins
I hadn’t thought about it in terms of the development of the nervous system. My personal deciding factor where my son was concerned was that I knew his heart was already beating (bc I was after 5 weeks when I was wrestling with the decision).
I don’t believe the above quotes are Dawkins’ personal opinion, just an illustration of an argument that someone might make.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:20 am
first sentence should read “a consequentialist OR utilitarian”
Bob~ I agree, as long as the practice of one’s belief system doesn’t negatively impact others.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:22 am
How are you tonight cheryl?
June 30th, 2008 at 12:25 am
I’m not sure about this. It sounds noble, but there’s a part of me that is concerned about the end intent, however benign the motivation might be. I don’t know how far Chopra wants this taken, and, hoping this isn’t too paranoid, I’m not sure what his view on private property would be, or, more importantly, what those who can most enact his philosophy think of the notion of sovereignty of the individual, his personal rewards and possessions, etc.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:27 am
I AM A CITIZIAN OF HEAVEN.
REVOLUTION AT THE POLLS!
VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT!
June 30th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Also, the boy with him (his grandson?) is handsome, but, of course, my latest nephew is much more handsome.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:28 am
I see that there are children and young people who are bi-racial, multi-racial, or of a multi-ethnic background. But, I do not see a new conciousness.
I still call myself an American before anything else. Many churches today just had “God and Country” services. They are certainly not bringing in this new consciousness that Deepak Chopra talks about. And the child he is holding. Yes, there are lots of kids in my community like him. But, there is no new identity and some of them right now are not sure who they are and they are out trying to find themselves. Some of them, anyway.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:29 am
The Republican party is for ending abortion.They dont kill the unborn but due to their pro buisness policy’s they just slowly kill them as they go through life.According to them the average worker should have no say.Super capitilism the last 8 years has destroyed the average working person.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:29 am
This is one of those articles offered in Liberal “Think” tanks to expose our lack of common sense. As much as I’d like to think that the Cosmos loves us equally, I think it loves America just a little bit more. Am I ashamed of the fact that we created the bomb first? Hell no! Am I ashamed of the fact that we are almost surrounded by water and friendly nations? God couldn’t pick a better slot if we secure our borders. It’s not a sin for us to be proud of America, our troops, and or our technology. The stupid things we do with them challenge my consciousness. God would want a loving and respectful people to lead others to peace and prosperity. Liberals can’t find a way to win an election after the foolish games played on 9-11. If we don’t get it straight soon, the Cosmos could give up on this world. Here’s your sign, “There was no intelligent life.”
June 30th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Bush was Here!
June 30th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Jim Hoffa was here!!!
June 30th, 2008 at 12:37 am
Every great empire in history had the sense that God loved them more.The british and the Roman empire thought the same.They both stretched their military to thin.Will we fall in the same trap?Time will tell.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:46 am
On a lighter note.I was just listening to the Pina Colada song.If that doesnt make every person happy what does?
June 30th, 2008 at 12:55 am
Citizen of the cosmos? That’s a little too ethereal for me. And if we eliminate all our tribal loyalties how do we put other people down?
It would be inhuman.
June 30th, 2008 at 2:02 am
i LOVE the pina colada song! even though the beginning of it sucks… “i was tired of my lady…” and they both decide to cheat on each other, but ultimately end up finding each other… that part’s romantic as hell. but the whole cheating on each other part sucks.
i know you’re supposed to just enjoy the song, but it’s always bothered me that they were cheating on each other!
June 30th, 2008 at 2:02 am
http://kickthemallout.com/
June 30th, 2008 at 2:05 am
“The Clash of Civilizations” by Samuel Huntington comes to mind. Read it – you’ll find it interesting.
June 30th, 2008 at 3:13 am
boring
June 30th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Heh, at first I thought http://kickthemallout.com/ had something to do with cleansing the landscape of shopping malls.
But I’d venture to guess this is a Republican initiative, registered in Dec 2007, since, by default, if we kick everybody out of Congress in 2008 we end up with Republicans controlling both houses, and as far as I’m concerned Republicans should get themselves a handful of pencils, stick them in a tin cup, and go sit outside a bus depot and beg for pocket change.
And, anyway, my senior Senator is Chuck Schumer. He’s on the judiciary and banking committees and he’s also a Brooklyn-born Jew and that’s just got to rankle a few southern feathers every time he opens his mouth. Which is not to say that I’ve got anything against the south. But I’m sure tempted sometimes.
June 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Schumer and Pelosi PISS ME OFF
June 30th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
one of the funniest Radio Graffitis ever was when that guy said “I’m gonna slap Nancy Pelosi upside her head” LOL LOL LOL
June 30th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Schumer and Pelosi piss you off? There’s hope for you yet, Cheryl! Are you a right-winger yet?
That was an interesting quote from The God Delusion. I think you could use nervous system functioning (or perhaps pain receptor functioning) as a cutoff point for life. There’s another book called “The Dawkins Delusion” which is essentially a refutation of the book by a similar intellectual heavyweight named Alastair McGrath.
Back to the New Ageism stuff, and tying in that abortion quote, why does suffering of the fetus even matter without God? Might makes right. A woman controls her body cavities, even if there is another human being growing within her, so the argument could be made that the suffering aspect is irrelevant.
I think you need underpinnings of morality from God to know that murder is wrong, but I look at late-term abortion as a human rights issue. Most people would say that murder is wrong. You could say “believing murder is wrong is a personal belief.” Does that mean we should sanction it as a society? If you are infringing on an INNOCENT person’s right to exist, with everything else being equal, that is wrong from just about every ideological perspective…you would think. But many people don’t see that. They think a woman’s life trumps a young baby’s. Fair enough, but few will admit that we are assigning VALUE to life based on age. We used to assign VALUE to life based on skin color.
June 30th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Flap~ this is why I LOVE debating this stuff with you!!!
You bring in some good points. Whether I agree with the points or not, they’re almost always damned good food for thought.
I had no idea there was a response to the Dawkins book. I’m going to check it out. I’m actually headed to Borders now to get another book by another atheist. As I’ve said before, I like reading all the arguments on both sides of the fence.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Well I’ll admit we assign value to life based on age and lots of other things. It happens a 1000 times a day in personal injury lawsuits. And try starting a new career if you’re over 50. And try to get your health plan to pay for a transplant if you’re 70 or 80 years old. And all the people involved in lawsuits and human resource management and health insurance companies are people just like you and me and everybody else.
Just look at the term “human resource management.” That’s not referring to anyone as a person. That’s talking about people as corporate assets.
And I absolutely disagree that religious beliefs are a prerequisite for moral convictions.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
RC…I think people can act in a “moral” fashion without belief in God or religious conviction, but what is the litmus test that makes something moral or immoral? Society? Slavery was perfectly moral to many people at the time. Hitler thought killing Jews was a-okay. Who is to say they were wrong? Just because we as a society generally consider certain things to be wrong doesn’t really define WHERE those morals are or should be coming from.
Christopher Hitchens essentially said non-theistic morals can come from “human solidarity.” I think that’s total bullshit, because humans are evil AND if you believe in Darwinian evolution and the philosophical implications there’s really no solidarity at all (or should there be). Anything goes.
Thank you Cheryl…you are one of the most thoughtful people on this board even though we don’t always agree! You always make great comments. I have to admit I haven’t read The God Delusion. It’d drive me insane while reading it, I think.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 am
I am an American first….I don’t want to be part of the trend the world has towards accepting Islam. Sorry, maybe I just a pig minded conservative but the whole no women’s rights, death to Christians, etc. etc. etc. thing just doesn’t fly with me.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:10 pm