Mark Sanford: Don’t Listen To The Iraqis
July 14th, 2008, 11:18 AM EDT
The South Carolina Governor, who couldn’t come up with a difference between Bush’s economic policies and McCain’s, says decisions about leaving Iraq should come from DC not from our hosts in Iraq. This, in spite of the fact that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and National Security Adviser Mowaffak al-Rubaie have been clear that they would like a timeline for our departure.
“Today, we are looking at the necessity of terminating the foreign presence on Iraqi lands and restoring full sovereignty,” Maliki told Arab ambassadors in blunt remarks during an official visit to Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirat
h/t Think Progress
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvdduIOd7t4&eurl=http://thinkprogress.org/]
So much for freedom and democracy.
But in all fairness, who cares what Mark Sanford says?
July 14th, 2008 at 11:48 am
i’m tired of this war and all the issues surrounding it. let’s get the hell out. if the iraqis feel that they can handle their business from here on out, let’s leave them to it.
the world doesn’t see us as peacekeepers anymore. sarkozy hosted the israeli and palestinian presidents this weekend to discuss peace talks and elimination of WMD creation. the Fran-sy Pansies are doing what we used to do.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Cheryl is the kind of person that our enemies are hoping for.
You’re tired of war? Well who isn’t. The war will never be over until the Jihad is called off.
It’s not up to us to end the war.. we didn’t start it.
We either defend ourselves or we die.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Cheryl is correct. We are merely occupying thier country. And besides, they didn’t start the war. The Bush/Cheney administration declared war on a sovereign nation sans provocation.
http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2003/05/23_byrd_unprovoked.htm
July 14th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
From:
The Washington Post
Overstating Our Fears
By Glenn L. Carle
Sunday, July 13, 2008; Page B07
Sen. John McCain has repeatedly characterized the threat of “radical Islamic extremism” as “the absolute gravest threat . . . that we’re in against.”
The “Global War on Terror” has conjured the image of terrorists behind every bush, the bushes themselves burning and an angry god inciting its faithful to religious war.
The administration has focused on pursuing terrorists and countering an imminent and terrifying threat. Thousands of Americans have died as a result, as have tens of thousands of foreigners.
We do not face a global jihadist “movement” but a series of disparate ethnic and religious conflicts involving Muslim populations, each of which remains fundamentally regional in nature and almost all of which long predate the existence of al-Qaeda.
The writer was a member of the CIA’s Clandestine Service for 23 years and retired in March 2007 as deputy national intelligence officer for transnational threats.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Well now we know why the CIA sucks.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
The CIA was right.
Bush came into office wanting to be a “war president” even as he was campaigning on ‘no nation building’.
From his own book on Amazon:
A Charge to Keep: My Journey to the White House (Paperback)
by George W. Bush (Author), Mickey Herskowitz (Author)
He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me:
** ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade•.if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.” Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father’s shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. “Suddenly, he’s at 91 percent in the polls, and he’d barely crawled out of the bunker.”
He cause ALL this carnage AND let bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri go just to one up his dad.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
vince~ DO NOT direct anymore of your comments to me. you’re a fucking moron. i am not the type of person that anyone would want as an enemy. the difference between me and you is that i direct my aggression towards those who deserve it, and only after all other mans of resolution have been exhausted.
neither i or anyone else on this blog can stop you from being a hateful bigot and zealot. i personally am done with your assumptions and prejudice. every assumption you’ve made about me has been incorrect. you’re a goddamned dick.
leave me out of your comments.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Cheryl: Sorry but when you make comments like the one you did, you should own them. The people who indiscriminately kill innocent people with global ambitions have explicitly counted on people in the West being too affluent and too decadent to fight.
You give our enemies hope.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I love you, Cheryl…
July 14th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
The 27%ers have convived us that it is THEY who are not fighting the long fight.
Bush/Cheney and the other PNACers have instead lied about “the fight” so that they can pursue their pre-9/11 plans to occupy Iraq.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
The Iraqis need to bow to their American Warlords…
July 14th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
It’s interesting how you Lefties seem to think I am hateful because I just relate the way the enemy thinks.
It’s so fascinating how you react to reading what motivates our enemy with such anger.
Did I invent that people saying “Oh i’m so tired of war” inspire our enemy? No.. the Guy from Al Qaeda says it.
Since so many of you live in a little bubble where you think the real world won’t eventually catch up with , SOMEONE has to tell you the truth.
I guess that makes me a “fucking moron”
No Cheryl.. You’re the fucking moron.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
“It’s not up to us to end the war.. we didn’t start it.”
Hey Vinnie Pee, We DID start the Iraq War. 911 was not Iraq you stupid goddam ignorant fuck.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
It’s funny how Liberals blah blah blah
It’s interesting how Liberals blah blah blah
Why exactly do you spend so much time on a liberal blog?
Why are you such a stupid shitbag, Vinnie Pee?
July 14th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Vince P said,
“It’s interesting how you Lefties seem to think I am hateful because I just relate the way the enemy thinks.”
………………………………………….
We just think that YOU do not understand know the enemy.
I guess you’re a legend in your own mind!
July 14th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Yes, Vinnie P, you ARE a fucking moron. Perhaps you should back up your allegations with proof instead of just spewing personal attacks to others on this blog.
And YOU are the one living in a bubble. WE are the ones who have done the research. You, on the other hand, are simply parroting RW talking points.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
By the way FuRyUs, I like your style.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Wow, many of you libs are so tolerant…it’s called FREE SPEECH. Get over yourselves and let other people express opinions that deviate from the liberal line.
Vince is automatically cursed at and BRANDED things because he vigorously expresses an opinion. It’s pathetic, actually.
Would you prefer a liberal echo chamber? Seems like you would want some other opinions, and people like Fury start cursing him out. Fury, cursing doesn’t mean you’re correct. Removes from your argument.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
OldLefty is about the only one on this thread who didn’t fire personal attacks at Vince…
July 14th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Lefties tolerate no alternative views (ie: reality)
Notice how things that used to be just normal are suddenly “right-wing”.. they’re only “right-wing” because the Left has retreated from reality.
Quoting Al Qaeda is “RW talking points” for instance.
Not any of you fools have corrected any of the information I provided. You just attack the person.. which all you have.
You don’t even know if I’m wrong.. you want it to be that I’m wrong. so in your “minds” I’m wrong and if name-calling is all you got, you’ll use it.
If I’m so wrong, then state which one of my facts are wrong and provide the correction.
If you can.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
“I guess you’re a legend in your own mind!”
by OldLefty July 14, 2008 at 3:53 pm
LOL! Lefty, you hit the nail right on the head!
It is impossible to listen to what Vince has to say as he is a nasty, arrogant, hateful and RUDE person. He is the one who started with personal attacks on this blog against liberals and even independents like Cheryl and so, NO, I won’t be tolerant of his all Muslims are our enemy crap!
Too damn bad! And I am NOT a “lib”. I am a LIBERAL. And damn proud of it too!
July 14th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Vince:
“The only Western power still capable of resisting is the United States, he believes. But that, too, will change once President Bush is gone.”
I’d like to know where you got this information. Please post the link. I’ve also given you a link to prove that the U.S. attacked Iraq, not the other way around as you say.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Epiphany, so you are saying that free speech should NOT be tolerated. Some of the responses to what Vince said were much nastier, more rude, and hateful than anything he’s ever said.
I’m not necessarily even agreeing with Vince…I’m just saying to quash debate by labeling people and refusing to listen is close-minded.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
http://cicentre.com/news/books.html
Governance in the Wilderness by Sheik Abu-Bakar Naji, chief military strategist for Al Qaeda
July 14th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
No flap, that is NOT what I am saying. He can say anything he likes. And so can I! He has the right to post on here and I have the right to respond to it. He is the one who from his first post awhile back has been very nasty to people and insulting to others who have a different opinion. He came on here, as far as I am concerned, just looking for trouble. At this point, I could care less how nasty I might be to him in the future.
Exactly how am I close-minded??? Because I refuse to take seriously his hateful and anti-Muslim progaganda? Because I refuse to cowtow to his absurd, arrogant attitude that only HE, Master Vince, King of the Universe has the key to all universal truth?
I have been conversing and debating with YOU for months now! I have absolutely NO problem talking to you, even though I might sometimes get angry or frustrated. I find you to be a very decent person who almost NEVER personally attacks anyone. I ENJOY talking to you about anything. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother. You are a civil and respectful poster, and even though you obviously feel anger and frustation as well with the liberal point of view, you still have a civil way of putting things. I admit that it is hard sometimes talking to conservatives. I’m not perfect, far from it. Sometimes I lose it too. But I try to make an effort. Otherwise what is the point of talking about anything?
I’m not sure what Vince’s point is in the first place. What would he like us to do, put all American Muslims in determent camps?
He makes me sick, and that is MY opinion about it.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Quoting the Muslims themselves is “Anti-Muslim”.
Relating 1,400 years of Muslim aggressive is “Anti-Muslim”
Epiphany: You are so deluded. That’s why you react in your stupidity. You have to be mad at someone for the cognitive dissonance you’re experiencing.
You should read the book “The Closing of the American Mind”
You could be on the cover.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
You could check out his earlier manifesto called “Management of Savagery: The Most Critical Stage Through Which the Ummah Will Pass”
The blog isn’t taking the URL at Havard that has the PDF of the document.
If you google the Title , look for a result that is a PDF and is at havard dot edu.
Some people say “Wilderness” is just an alternate translation of Managmenet.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
It’s not what violent , radical Muslims say, it is that they are fewer than the neo con would have you believe.
Again from the Washington Post:
” We do not face a global jihadist “movement” but a series of disparate ethnic and religious conflicts involving Muslim populations, each of which remains fundamentally regional in nature and almost all of which long predate the existence of al-Qaeda.”
From the BBC:
” While both the neo cons here, and al Qaeda there, were failing to achieve their goals with their OWN people, 9/11 was a tremendous boost to each of them:
The attack on America gave the neo cons the “Pearl Harbor” that they wanted, while after their failed revolutions, bin Laden and Zawahiri had little or no popular support, and were dependent upon independent operatives to carry out their new call for jihad, the neo con ‘war on terror’ elevated them among THEIR people.
The Bush/Cheney administration and radical Islam are feeding off of each other, and of course as always, it’s the innocent people here AND there who suffer.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Well said, Old Lefty
July 14th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Thanks, Fury! Let’s get a room!
July 14th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Sanford is a fool!!
July 14th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
F Train…
July 15th, 2008 at 12:27 am
This is from the Washington Post
=======
A Saudi-funded academy in Fairfax County used textbooks as recently as 2006 that compared Jews and Christians to apes and pigs, told eighth-graders that these groups are “the enemies of the believers” and diagrammed for high school students where to cut off the hands and feet of thieves, a Washington Post review of the books has found.
Saudi officials acknowledged that the textbooks used at the Islamic Saudi Academy had contained inflammatory material since at least the mid-1990s but said they ordered revisions in 2006. School administrators said that they have been scrambling to change the texts and that all potentially offensive passages will be gone by the coming academic year. But, they said, teachers have always been told to avoid inflammatory material in the classroom.
=======
So how do you Lefties justify getting all upset to me when I state what the tenents of Islam are? You read the outrageous things I type and , like a reasonable person, recoil at them… I used to to.. until it sunk in… they really believe this stuff.. and that’s when I made my breakthrough.
The textbooks are a perfect example.. it’s right in front of our faces… they really believe this stuff.. they teach thier kids this stuff… they lie to everyone else to hide the truth.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
From http://proctoringcongress.blogspot.com/2008/07/nightowl-newswrap-roundup-of-stories.html:
{a liberal, pro Obama site}:
There are more problems in Northern Virginia at the Islamic Saudi Academy: A Saudi-funded academy in Fairfax County used textbooks as recently as 2006 that compared Jews and Christians to apes and pigs, told eighth-graders that these groups are “the enemies of the believers” and diagrammed for high school students where to cut off the hands and feet of thieves, a Washington Post review of the books has found. Saudi officials acknowledged that the textbooks used at the Islamic Saudi Academy had contained inflammatory material since at least the mid-1990s but said they ordered revisions in 2006. School administrators said that they have been scrambling to change the texts and that all potentially offensive passages will be gone by the coming academic year. But, they said, teachers have always been told to avoid inflammatory material in the classroom. A sampling of 2006-07 Islamic studies textbooks showed that much of the controversial material had been removed. At least one book still contained passages that extolled jihad and martyrdom, called for victory over one’s enemies and said the killing of adulterers and apostates was “justified.” The academy, founded in 1984, has about 1,000 students in pre-kindergarten through grade 12 and is separated into boys’ and girls’ schools. It is the only Saudi-funded school in the United States. About 70 percent of the academy’s students are U.S. citizens drawn from the region’s Muslim communities. About a quarter are Saudi.
We ALL know these things.
This is what you get with religious fundamentalism of ALL stripes.
A few years ago, Cary Christian, The largest Christian school in North Carolina, had THIS gem:
“The Students at one of the area’s largest Christian schools are reading a controversial booklet that critics say whitewashes Southern slavery with its view that slaves lived “a life of plenty, of simple pleasures.” e book’s description of slavery as a benign institution where the slaves led “a life of plenty, of simple.”
There are many Americans who know Moslem people here, and there are Christians and Hindus (and we even know an Iranian Jew.), who work in the Gulf, or live in India OR here, who do NOT know of ANY Muslems like this:
No one denies there is a problem with the fundamentalists… (including Muslims), but What is a tiny number, you believe represents ALL Muslims.
It’s not true.
We are the ones ones with the breakthrough.
Notice, again the Saudis…Dear Leader’s GREAT friends.
July 15th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I never said ALL Muslims are any partcular way, dipship
July 15th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
whats a dipship, asshole?
July 15th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
flap- i’m reviewing your comments and saw something you wrote and feel the need to say screw you. i didn’t launch a personal attack against what’s his name.
very few of us here have a problem with people expressing differing opinions. you especially should know that.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Many libs have a problem with conservative views. Try to namecall against people that disagree. That’s the whole damn point. And you felt the need to start the assault, Cheryl. Then everyone else piles on.
Vince isn’t an extremist…he sees an apparent violent streak in Islam, which is supported by history. He wants to strongly make the point, and he’s called names, anti-this, anti-that, a hater. It’s okay to vigorously disagree with him…but good grief.
Responses to Vince:
you’re a fucking moron. a hateful bigot and zealot.
you stupid goddam ignorant fuck. you’re a goddamned dick. you ARE a fucking moron.
If Vince said that we need to track down all Muslims and kill them, then perhaps you could call him an extremist. He ain’t saying that. Perhaps have some damn dialog with him instead of namecalling when he says something that you find a little noxious.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
flap: calling me a hater is the only way the feebleminded have to tell themselves they are superior.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
I’m hateful because I said what the facts regarding Islam are.
All the horrible things I wrote are things the Muslims have done or believe in.. and just me typing those thigs means I’m the evil one.
That’s the logic of the morally bankrupt like Cheryl.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
once again vince, you’ve made an incorrect assumption bc you are so damned blinded by your hatred for islam. you are truly a crazed zealot.
flap- i’m done with you. i have never ‘resorted’ to name calling bc i couldn’t prove my point. i’ve had plenty of debates with people here, including you. i’m disappointed that you also would make assumptions about me. vince has been making his anti-islam comments on several threads since he started commenting here. you would have to review all of those comments to know what was said before i ‘resorted’ to name calling. and if you actually took the time to read what the hell he’s been writing, you’d be as disgusted with his narrow-mindedness as everyone else is.
no need to reply. i’m a morally bankrupt liberal, and would only respond to your rational and intelligent remarks with childish name calling.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
why don’t you go look at his website, flap? and look at the other comment exchanges on this blog to see what kind of dialogue we’ve had with him.
shithead.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I can imagine Cheryl in 1939
“HOW DARE YOU CALL GERMANY ANTI-SEMITIC. I know plenty of German people and they don’t hate Jews.. Who do you think you are to call the government of Germany dangerous for Jewish people.
You’re demonizing every German. What did Germany ever do to us”
Right Cheryl?
I mean you’re so fair and even-handed
July 16th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Are you PMSing, Cheryl? Get over yourself.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Oh, I said something sexist, call me another name!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Vince, you’re espousing bigoted views! Stop labeling Nazis! They all don’t want to kill Jews…let’s try to UNDERSTAND them. Just because a few million Jews are gassed? Puhlease.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:19 pm