Former Bush Treasury Secretary O’Neill: Bush Doesn’t Get It And “It Shows”
Paul O’Neill told ABC that our national leaders, including President Bush are “in a panic”
“I don’t think he understands or knows much about any of this and it shows,” O’Neill said, adding that current Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson “knows a lot of about this, and it’s good that he’s there.”
O’Neill nails why this all happened:
O’Neill said we got into this mess because bankers were not making prudent decisions, because they believed that by reselling mortgages to Wall Street they weren’t going to be stuck with the problems.
“We suspended disbelief and said we can take people with no known source income or wealth generation and we can give them a $500,000 mortgage,” he said. “I think there’s a very important thing: When you violate fundamental principles of economics you can get away with it for a while, but eventually it’s going to get you.”
Well isn’t that why there are checks and balances built into the whole govt. system? The clueless and the clueful get together to push the country along…hopefully forward.
I’ll let everyone decide who’s who
September 25th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Of the U.S. system of checks and balances, a Crazy Conservative said:
Well isn’t that why there are checks and balances built into the whole govt. system? The clueless and the clueful get together to push the country along…hopefully forward.
No, Crazy.
The constitution set up three branches of government with power to be shared among them, and systems where one branch could challenge another. This keeps one arm of government from going too far out of control and infringing upon our rights, and acts as a stabilizing force. That’s what the checks and balances built into our government system are about.
Checks and balances have nothing to do with ‘the clueless and the clueful’, or with this Blog topic in general.
September 25th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Relax…Have the white pill.
It was a parady not literal speech.
September 25th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Crazy Conservative needs a dictionary:
It was a parady not literal speech.
It most certainly was not a ‘parady’, by which I assume you meant ‘parody’. It might have been a joke, or a sarcastic statement, or any number of other things – who knows.
But it most certainly was not parody.
September 25th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Isn’t the FBI investigating someone or somebodies? And they very well should. It would appear to me that if you give false information on a loan app. that you are commiting fraud. If you allow someone to falsly fill out an app. (Liars App.) then you are in collusion on a fraud. But what do I know, I live on Main Street not Wall Street.
I’d like to see people in JAIL over this.
September 25th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
OK
Pink pill shaped like a kite.
That’s what you want.
Bombshell—I don’t care. Save the country. Save my portfolio.
September 25th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
so mccains GRAND plan today:
The McCain Plan: “Fewer Regulations, More Corporate Tax Breaks”
Maybe mccain thought he was making a joke on his canceled letterman spot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0663DHLr58
September 25th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Even if Bush did know something about the economic meltdown (prior to the sudden crisis of this week), he wouldn’t have taken any action because he’d want to grant his cronies time to “drive the getaway car.”
It’s just a new version of the same old saga: One system of justice for the poor & one for the rich.
(i.e. The Wall Street speculators have been screwing with farm commodity prices for years & getting away with it …but does anybody notice farm losses that result?
The Bush “Ten Minute Threat” speech of last night was drama pure & simple. Notice how he was struggling to make his face look as innocent as possible. I’d like to believe Paulsen knows what he’s talking about & will help develop a way out, but will we be wacked again in another 6 months?
September 25th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
We got into this mess because the liberal dems (Dodd and Frank) wanted a “feel good” bill to make it easy for people who don’t have much money able to buy a house. Then there were those who bought houses knowing they could not afford them. Whenever government gets into the free market system, this is the outcome. Take a hint about what would happen with governmental health care. Beware.
September 25th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
For a good read about what’s going on, check out
“The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism,” by Naomi Klein. I’d love to hear her on Alan’s show. The book couldn’t be timelier.
September 25th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Fox News reports on who in Congress is most responsible for allowing this rape of the American people
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgctSIL8Lhs
September 25th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Fannie Mayhem: A History
September 8, 2008 8:41 p.m.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1014169323358510560.html?mod=Extra
• Fannie Mae Enron? 02/20/02 – Fan and Fred look like poorly run hedge funds: lots of leverage and snarkily hedged risk. Does the word Enron ring any bells?
WSJ notices the debt for FM is going up a lot
• Frantic Fannie 02/28/02 – Companies taking on so much risk and debt, and backed by taxpayers, ought to be more transparent in what they tell the world.
Responding to last week The two biggest U.S. mortgage holders hit the airwaves to denounce us, accused us of bias against “housing”
Ancedote of Rep Chairman wanting to hold hearings, Dem Rep shutting that down
• Inside Fannie 03/19/02 – Fan and Fred don’t function like other companies. They’re allowed to pile up debt, implicitly guaranteed by taxpayers, without being held to even the minimum of corporate governance standards.
• Fannie’s Inside Info 07/01/02 – Even in this post-Enron world, Fan and Fred do not provide as much information about these securities as private mortgage lenders do.
• Fannie Capitulates, Sort Of 07/15/02 – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac end months of resistance, stonewalling and downright crankiness and agree to register their common stock with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
• Fannie Mae’s Risky Business 09/23/02 – We’ve been suggesting that Fannie Mae was exposed to too much interest-rate risk. All of a sudden investors seem to agree with us.
• Fan and Fred Get the Business 02/19/03 – The year has not started auspiciously for the two mortgage-finance behemoths.
• Speaking Truth to Fannie 03/12/03 – The president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis warns of a potential crisis arising from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Fannie Takes the Hill 10/09/03 – When the House of Representatives can’t get even a modest regulatory bill out of committee, the dangers of Fannie Mae become clear in reality.
Notes that efforts by Committee chair keeps getting blocked, but doens’t say why
• White House Fannie Pack 11/11/03 – White House chief economist N. Gregory Mankiw dares to tell the truth about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The mortgage giants were not amused, which means we’re getting somewhere.
WH attacked by Barney Frank for being against “housing”
• Christmas for Fannie Mae 12/23/03 – The Federal Reserve Board releases a new staff study about the impact of taxpayer subsidies for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
So no wonder the companies are fighting so hard to block the Bush Administration’s effort to more thoroughly monitor and supervise their risk-taking
• Fannie’s Risky Business 02/25/04 – Alan Greenspan putshis credibility behind the cause of reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Fannie Uncovered 09/23/04 – The housing-finance giant has been engaging in some accounting funny business.
• Fannie Mae Enron? 10/04/04 – The company was cooking the books. Big time.
The target EPS for maximum payout was $3.23 and Fannie reported exactly . . . $3.2309. This bull’s-eye was worth $1.932 million to then-CEO James Johnson, $1.19 million to then-CEO-designate Franklin Raines, and $779,625 to then-Vice Chairman Jamie Gorelick.
• Fannie Mae Liberals 10/14/04 – There were many moments of high entertainment during the House hearings on Fannie Mae’s creative accounting. But our favorite was the Mister Magoo performance given by Barney Frank (D., Massachusetts).
Mr. Frank chided Fannie CEO Frank Raines and CFO Tim Howard, saying, “At the level of compensation you get, we ought to be able to count on you to do your very best without additional incentives.” (THIS AFTER LEARNING ABOUT MILLIONS IN FRAUD!!! we were counting on you??!!?!? WTF)
the good liberals in the Congressional Black Caucus. Members of this group are often the loudest defenders of Fannie and her brother, Freddie Mac. Can it be that the annual donations made by the Fannie Mae Foundation to the Caucus have blurred their vision too?
Maxine Waters (D., California) cooed all over Mr. Raines, and Clay Lacy (D., Missouri) played the race card by calling the hearings a “political lynching” of Mr. Raines, who is African-American
The default position for Fannie’s defenders is that the giant mortgage finance company provides more affordable housing.
Fan and Fred’s Congressional sympathizers (including some of the same Members who lavished valentines over Fan last week) sent a letter to HUD complaining against the new quotas
The evidence is overwhelming that Fannie only pretends to be a tribune of the poor.
• Fannie the Centaur 12/17/04 – Understanding their half-man, half-beast nature is crucial to fixing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the wake of their recent financial scandals.
• Fannie Turns a Page 12/23/04 – Fannie Mae – a slick, semiprivate firm operating with the patronage of politicians – is the kind of institution one still expects to find in a country like France.
• Fannie’s Friends on the Hill 05/09/05 – Congress finally seemed ready to protect taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Then Republican Mike Oxley decided to ride to their rescue.
We should have known the two mortgage giants wouldn’t change without a fight. Their new, post-scandal, executives are talking a nice, cooperative game. But their allies in the homebuilding trades are deluging Congress with the usual fears that reining in Fan and Fred will hurt home ownership. They’re even playing the race card, as in the email we received from Mary Mancera of the National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals. “Reform Proposals Will Limit Latinos Access to Homeownership,” she declared, apparently with a straight face.
At a recent Senate hearing, the best New York’s Chuck Schumer could do on the point is browbeat Mr. Greenspan with studies disputing a Fed study showing that even the implicit government guarantee for Fan and Fred hardly lowers mortgage rates at all.
. Mr. Schumer and other politicians are in it for the campaign contributions, and it is especially amusing to see liberals fight for MBS portfolios that merely enrich already rich Fannie executives.
We hope the Bush Administration and Republicans on the Senate Banking Committee don’t flinch the way House Republicans have.
• Fannie Mae’s House 10/25/05 – Every Congressional session can be counted on to produce its share of bad bills. But the “reform” bill for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is in a class of its own.
The bill’s new “affordable housing” fund confiscates potentially billions of dollars of the profits of these nominally private companies to finance the pet projects of Barney Frank and other Democrats. This sort of targeted profits tax is not only a bad idea in its own right but also gives Members of Congress an even greater stake in opposing any reform that might dent that profit stream. That is precisely why it is being promoted by the homebuilder lobby and others who benefit from Fannie subsidies.
Chairman Oxley seems oblivious to all this, focusing instead on raising PAC contributions and showing he can pass a bill by giving Mr. Frank whatever he wants.
The sad political truth is that a Democratic Congress probably couldn’t pass this stinker without being accused (accurately) of promoting state socialism. That an ostensibly conservative House will pass it is another embarrassment for Republican governance.
• Freddie’s Friends on the Hill 04/27/06 – The Federal Election Commission sheds some light on how Freddie Mac rewards its friends.
The Bush Administration has been forceful in calling for Congress to reform how Fannie and Freddie are regulated and run. But if it wants its effort to succeed, it is going to have to show Fan and Fred and their friends on the Hill that Treasury will act if Congress doesn’t.
• Memo to Fannie 06/14/06 – A joke in Washington these days goes like this: “What’s the difference between Enron and Fannie Mae? Answer: The guys at Enron have been convicted.”
Mr. Quarles said the Administration would prefer that Congress act to give a new regulatory body that power instead. But Fannie and Freddie and their political allies — the homebuilders especially — have been lobbying furiously to stop such reform legislation. So Treasury is telling the mortgage giants that even if they keep blocking reform, the Administration can achieve the same results administratively.
• The Fannie Tax 04/12/07 – Democrat Barney Frank and the Bush Administration seem to have found common ground on new rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Naturally, there’s a catch.
The bad news is that Mr. Frank is an expensive date, and his price for tolerating reform of his favorite corporate giants is dunning them for mega-bucks in the name of “affordable housing.” His bill would tax Fannie and Freddie to the tune of 1.2 basis points of their total book of business — or just over 1/100th of 1% of all the mortgages Fannie and Freddie have bought and packaged to sell to investors. That’s more than $500 million a year, with potential to grow.
• Freddie Krueger Mac 05/10/07 – Just when you think they’re defeated, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac arise in Congress to kill any attempt to clean up their dangerous habits.
The four Members fronting for the scandal-plagued companies are Democrats Melissa Bean (Illinois) and Dennis Moore (Kansas) and Republicans Gary Miller (California) and Randy Neugebauer (Texas). They prove that corporate socialism isn’t partisan, and no doubt they’ll be handsomely rewarded with campaign contributions if their amendment succeeds.
• Fannie to the Rescue? 09/29/07 – Fannie and Freddie went up the Hill to fetch a pail of money.
• Fannie More 10/23/07 – Barney Frank and Chuck Schumer have come up with a proposal that would increase the risk to taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Fannie Mayhem 11/20/07 – Chuck Schumer is lucky Congress ignored his idea that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should ride to the rescue of the housing market.
• Too Political to Fail 04/21/08 – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac aren’t held to the same standards of accountability as everyone else.
• The Price of Fannie Mae 07/10/08 – It’s time Americans understood the price they could soon pay for the Beltway’s confidence game with these high-risk “government-sponsored enterprises.”
• Fannie Mae Ugly 07/12/08 – Investors continued to flee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac almost as frantically as the political class tried to reassure everybody there was nothing to worry about.
• Paulson’s Fannie Test 07/15/08 – Does Hank Paulson want to leave the U.S. financial system better than he found it? That’s his test in the wake of his commitment to use taxpayer money to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Fannie and Freddie’s Enablers 07/21/08 – The same folks who put taxpayers on the hook for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are now demanding ransom to let taxpayers bail them out.
• Fannie Mae’s Political Immunity07/29/08 –Congress sets the rules in favor of Fan and Fred, which then repay the Members with cash from their rigged profit stream.
• When Henry Met Fannie 08/19/08 — That taxpayer capital injection looks closer all the time.
• Weekend at Henry’s 09/08/08 — Propping up the living dead at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
Note, this doesn’t even deal with the 100’s of millions Fannie mae distributed to groups like ACORN.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
“Senator Grahamnesty was just on FNC stating that 20% of the relief in the bailout was going to go to ACORN for housing”
What the hell is wrong with you Democrats. 20% to that destructive corrupt mob?
September 25th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Vinny, The PLAGIARIZER! Why didnt bush do any thing like regulate or oversee the mess when they had majority power of all three branches of govt. in 2002 2003 2004 2005? You know the answer! Your cut and pastes prove nothing, they only show that bush did nothing. you are an anti-american dishonest punk! come join me at mediamatters were you can debate with reasonable people that actually are funny and intelligent. I promise not to embarrass you.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Reread the 11.27PM comment, retard.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:34 am
I did. I says nothing about bush or any repubs wanting to pass anything to get the problem under control! you cut and paste something you did not even read! It’s an opinion piece anyway! Dishonest MORONIC punk! no credibility and not very smart!
September 26th, 2008 at 2:11 am
McCain and I have a lot in common since I found your website difficult to maneuver.
Why did you post O’Neill’s comments; every time someone tries to counter Barry’s/Biden’s (BB) comments blaming McCain and Bush for the financial meltdown you counter with there is plenty of blame to go around and state that laying blame doesn’t help anything.
BB complain about guilt by association adds then, after they drop in the polls, they never mention McCain without mentioning Bush.
You’ve spent the last few day complaining about the bailout, the cost of the bailout, the fact the bailout appears to be rewarding bad, immoral, or criminal behaviour and pointing out how many American’s are opposed. Now that house Republicans have delayed the bailout and are offering another proposal you’re complaining that they and McCain through a monkey wrench and halted the deal American’s are lighting up the switchboards in opposition to. Then you claim McCain and the Republican’s are playing politics with this issue and refuse to admit to your callers any Dem is doing the same. I recall when Sean accused Clinton of not having any core values and always listening to the polls you responded by stating he was implementing the will of the people, a good thing. Aren’t the Republicans who are offering an alternative to this 1 trillion dollar bailout trying to listen to the people, a good thing? No?
Is McCain playing politics? How many post meeting interviews did McCain give? McCain’s grandstand play? The Republican congressman who spoke to the press when he left the meeting (I don’t know his name) had a list of economists, which he mentioned he had already provided to the press, who stated we didn’t need to bailout Wall Street and that Paulson’s plan would not work. Sounds like he had serious reservations before McCain rode in on his white horse.
Since nobody knows if this bailout will work, why risk 1 trillion on it? 45 economists from some of the nation’s best colleges/universities (I’m assuming most are liberal in their political views, a stereotype, I know but am I wrong? I don’t have a list of the institutions.) I’m for letting people reap what they sowed. Banks fail, they fail. People who overstated their incomes, bought too much home, etc., lose their homes, they lose their homes. I don’t believe low income/minority home buyers are the biggest source of our problem. It was the extension of loans developed to enable/encourage low income/minority home buying to everyone else. If it hurts the economy, then we still have 1 trillion available to help right the economy. If we have a recession but avoid a depression, then we’ve saved 1 trillion.
I would think you and Liberaland readers would be applauding an alternative proposal to the bailout; or do you only applaud if the Dems were listening to the people and slowing down the rush to bailout.
As I typed, a caller mentioned Clinton’s cracker comment and you immediately chastized him for picking on Clinton. Later you spend how many minutes mocking Palin’s “I can see Russia” comments. You’re fair and balanced, right! I’ve heard you defending Clinton on national security experience by pointing out the Presidents surround themselves with subject matter experts and the ability to select competent advisors is what’s important. But if I were to point out how many Clinton administration choices made how many millions working at Fannie/Freddie you’d say what? Good people, Clinton is an excellent judge of character and and they haven’t been convicted of any crimes.
Yeah, they handled Palin wrong. They should have responded to her national security experience the way you defended Clinton because its been the truth for most Presidents. Their current strategy is just keeping this issue in the news. Nobody’s playing Biden’s quotes about Obama’s inexperience anymore; BB gave their responses to why ‘Biden was chosen and why he changed his opinion and its old news, everybody’s moved on. That, of course, assumes you’d treat Palin the same as BB.
McCain’s put his campaign on the line by returning to Washington. I think he’s sicere (that’s MY opinion). He’s done it before; remember his stance on the surge and his statements about his stance. Like I said before, Obama wants to TALK about what he’d do about the economy and I’d rather see what they DO about it. In a few days, I’ll have my answer because actions speak louder than words. Didn’t Hillary accuse Obama of being all talk and no action; the one who would see the man choking and go into a speech of how we need to improve first aid training in America while Palin would rush over and perform the Heimlich maneuver (relax, its a joke).
As I was about to hit send you asked why would Hillary supporters vote for McCain? There was a pollster who talked to 10 Obama and 10 Hillary after their debates. Obama supporters had no problem voting for Hillary but several Hillary supporters said they’d vote for McCain. Why? They had children or relatives in the military. They trusted Hillary to be Commander in Chief, not Obama.
Then Ted Danson said we don’t have the oil? Haven’t the Bakken field estimates been increased by 25 times recently? Doesn’t Pickens want off shore drilling because that’s where a lot of the natural gas is found? So if you support Picken’s plan, open up off shore drilling. If you don’t drill now, in 10 years you won’t have any increased production. Pickens says to use everything WHILE we devleop alternatives. Makes sense to me. Who goes to ANWAR on vacation? If you’re worried about oil companies selling it overseas, can’t that be legislated?
Multi-tasking sure, but you all quote Dems, Bush, etc., on how grave this is; its the next Depression and they brought us to our knees. What crisis has been bigger? Pearl Harbor, the Depression, Cuban Missile Crisis; that’s about it. What would you say if Bush went campaigning for McCain or whoever and said he was staying in touch by phone and Blackberry? Yeah, you judge people fairly. McCain’s obviously willing to let independents and republicans judge his judgment and if he loses votes and the elections I am sure he is willing to accept the consequences of his decision.
Alan, you don’t know if there will be a debate. Obama said he will be there. Don’t you believe him? Didn’t McCain’s campaign state they want the debate to go ahead? The debate will happen. If Obama can change his plans and go to Washington to work on this issue why can’t McCain change his mind and go to the debate.
Obama or McCain should issue a public executive order against torture when elected. You’re right on that.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:12 am
Excellent message MinotDad
Country First
September 26th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Who is this ONeill guy anyway? it sounds odd that an honorable man would say such a thing, it makes sense that a dishonorable man would.
Let me remind you liberals, the US President is not a Monarch (a king) that micromanages everything. The President is more about running the US military and foreign policy.
The US economy struggles for several reasons, one of them is liberals’ fault for not doing their jobs and wasting the nations time with frivilous inquiries just to harm their opposing elected officials ability to do their job.
So besides doing something, liberals use the mainstream media to lie about the republicans in office and to invent reasons to investigate and stall legislation so someone cant get credit.
waste time and money, and not do their job and make republicans have to defend themselves over false allegations.
conservatives are also to blame for a different way of wasting time, but its not 50-50.
An easy way to solve the nations economic problems is setup a system of slavery where people in the USA are categorically slaves.
A harder way is to make people do their jobs without abusing the system to make false allegations and not get punished for it. there will be disagreement, fine, but things like the Dan Rather-gate in Oct. 2004, that years democratic suprise, where a phoney letter was produced mocking GW Bushes military record.
In an honor-shame society? Dan Rather would be so shamed as to… In our society Rather should be in prison (and Mary Mapes and Does 1 to infinity)
September 26th, 2008 at 2:40 am
Minotdad, I agree with most of what you said. You sound like you have done alot of thought on your own. That is what i wish we saw more of on this forum. You seem reasonable and well informed! I applaud your last paragraph! Help me hold the dishonest punks feet to the fire on here. I’m so sick of the partisan lies. Thanks
September 26th, 2008 at 2:46 am
Bradley, The basic premise of the Dan Rather piece has never been proven wrong. The current occupant WAS AWOL! Never finished his obligations. Prove me wrong! YOU CAN’T! Bradley, A 15%er, dead ender that still supports this unelected moron.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:55 am
Jeffro, you cannot be intellectually honest and believe what you said.
the Mapes letter was written on a PC and not on a typewriter, it was so funny that they were caught.
So you sit there and accept its authenticity when the experts closed the book, its done, its fake
you would need to be delusional to accept the letter as genuine. And someone checked out the awol claim, it was so totally bashed as a stupid accusation that you only bring shame and dishonor to yourself by taking that tact
September 26th, 2008 at 2:59 am
Bradley and Vince, Should rove answer to the subpoena he has been served? If not, please explain why. Remember: credibility is important. :-)
September 26th, 2008 at 3:06 am
The letter “might” have been a facsimile but the contents and their basic accuracy has never be proven wrong. Like I said Show me where it has been show to be a lie. Who is this someone that checked out the AWOL claim? You saying it doesn’t make it true, You must back it up because you are a dishonest PUNK in my book. NOW SHOW ME YOUR PROOF OR STFU!
September 26th, 2008 at 3:12 am
I’m not worried about your opinion regarding my credibility.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:34 am
Who is this ONeill guy anyway?
I believe he was Bush’s first Treasury Security.
There was a big internal conflict and he was fired. i really don’t remember much more than that.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:36 am
“I’m not worried about your opinion regarding my credibility.” Thats fine but that didnt answer my question. I just wanted to hear your opinion on the rove subpoena that he ignored. would it help if I said PLEASE answer the question?
September 26th, 2008 at 3:43 am
He shouldn’t answer it. It’s none of Congress business who he talked to. The Executive branch is independent from the Legislative and there is no legal authority that grants Congress the power to conduct a criminal investigation.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:49 am
Thanks for answering. But you are wrong on two points. First rove was never elected to the executive, or the legislature. The independence of one body to the other is not even relevant, so I dont know why you even mentioned that. Second, Congress DOES have subpoena power! You said criminal investigation, I did not infer that! Very telling! In the back of your mind you must have a feeling that rove committed some criminal act. TREASON maybe. I thought the rule of law was important to you. So you are saying that a congressional subpoena is meaningless when its your guy, but different for any body else. You are covering for a Traitor but that doesn’t bother you. Thanks. I’ve learned some things about how uniformed and un-American you are.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:19 am
That’s right, Congress had nothing to do with Rove being in the White House, therefore Congress has no authority to compel his appearance due to the separation of powers.
Other than for the purposes of conducting a criminal investigation, there is no legitimate reason why he should appear before Congress.. That is why I said Congress has no right to do criminal investigation… I was dismissing the only valid reason they could possibly have to justify forcing him to go.
Valerie Plame and her lowlife husband are liars. She was not “covert” and if she was, she was incredibly careless and incompetent… a good description of the CIA nowadays anyway.
And again.. when you use words like unamerican and treason , you come off as extremely absurd because we all know those are attributes you actually admire in someone.-
September 26th, 2008 at 4:28 am
Wrong again my friend, Valerie Plame WAS covert. The CIA already confirmed that. Revealing her status was criminal.TREASONOUS actually. Therefore, rove must answer the subpoena. “we all know those are attributes you actually admire in someone.-” Who is this WE you mention? Nobody will back up such falsehoods, you are on your own on this one vinny! People do pride themselves on their integrity. You? Not so much. You will have to link to a credible source to back up your statement that she was not covert. YOU CANT! Do you think I havent seen this drivel/hannity talking points trotted out before? That nonsense you parrot from the drug addict has been debunked long ago. I do my research. You get your talking points from hannity and the druggie. You need to step up your game if your gonna debate with adults.
September 26th, 2008 at 5:54 am
You can fool the people all of the time, but someday the clock runs out when the truth is told. What truth could cause such a panic at this time? It all goes back to 9-11. AIG was the insurer for Hollywood. If our nation perpertrated a fraud, then the stock market will make a correction. How far it falls depends on the size of the lie and the pocketbooks of the players found guilty. Who profited from an attack on this nation? That’s not “Country First.”
September 26th, 2008 at 7:12 am
“And THAT”S not change we can believe in, my friends.”
September 26th, 2008 at 7:50 am
What we need is someone who does get it – someone like the mental giant from Alaska:-
Couric: “But he’s been in Congress for 26 years. He’s been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation — not more.”
Palin: “He’s also known as a maverick though. Taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party.”
Couric: “I’m just going to ask one more time, not to belabor the point — specific example in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.”
Palin: “I’ll try to find you some, and I’ll bring ‘em to ya.”
Ouch. Only one of the two women showed poise, focus and a good grasp of the facts, and it wasn’t the one who’s running for vice president.
From The Oregonian
September 26th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Just heard on TV Bill Clinton said he agreed with John McCain about the debate today. He said there is no reason why it couldn’t be postponed until next week sometime.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Working MOM,
Not only has Bill agreed with McCain on that, he also said McCain was smart for picking Sarah Palin.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:39 am
You realize Clinton’s also thinking, “Yeah, that’s the ticket– and I’m sure if Obama loses in 2008, Hillary will be more than ready in 2012…Mwuah-ha-ha-ha…”
September 26th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Unfortunately true. Yet more confirmation that Clinton puts his personal agenda ahead of the needs of the country.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
In reference to apparent evidence that Clinton would prefer to see Obama lose, The Classic Liberal comes around:
Unfortunately true. Yet more confirmation that Clinton puts his personal agenda ahead of the needs of the country.
This must be the first time in this Blog’s history that anyone’s mind has been changed on who would be best to lead the country moving forward.
I am curious Classic Liberal, what made you come around to seeing that it would be best for the country if Obama were elected?
September 26th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Personal agenda, or honest personal opinion? If he thought Obama was better for the country than mcCain, your saying he wouldn’t just come out and fully endorse Obama instead of giving McCain the pats on the back?
I remember Hillary AND Biden saying Obama wasn’t ready. Biden went so far to say he would be honored to run with or against McCain, because Obama was not ready.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Jeffro you said The letter “might” have been a facsimile but the contents and their basic accuracy has never be proven wrong. Like I said Show me where it has been show to be a lie. Who is this someone that checked out the AWOL claim? You saying it doesn’t make it true, You must back it up because you are a dishonest PUNK in my book. NOW SHOW ME YOUR PROOF OR STFU!
never proven wrong, well its a letter that was invented in 2004 and nobody was around to say it didnt exist in the 60s. but think about the logic there, you could write a document and say its from King George of England in the 1700s. try and use your own method to disprove the document’s authenticity.
As for the awol claim? GW himself explained his side, as he was a witness to his own record.
Then we have folks who do security clearance and background checks for clearances to get in to certain buildings. you dont just walk up and go inside, there are strict rules about who has permission, they even have agencies that do that stuff.
Then there are democrat operatives who would have loved to prove the awol claim as a felony. So the upper level dems who sought out any little thing couldnt use the awol claim.
So only the conspiracy theorists, ufo clowns and internet regulars spread the awol claim because its easy and there is no being accountable for saying it.
Rove explained why he shouldnt go, and his prima facie reasons are solid
September 26th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
quote: Wrong again my friend, Valerie Plame WAS covert. The CIA already confirmed that. Revealing her status was criminal.TREASONOUS actually.
So explain something as an intellectual debater who does his homework Jeffro?
Was it revealing Plame’s status or revealing a covert CIA agent’s status that is treasonous?
I mean was it just because she is a democrat and vocal supporter for the Clintons that her being exposed was wrong?
Or are you saying any CIA agent’s whose cover is blown is treasonous?
September 26th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Um Cara – nothing so catastrophic has occurred. The point was, if Bill Clinton believes the Democrats are best fit to lead the country he would work to support Obama regardless of the impact on his significant other. In contrast, as Sarah points out, he appears to be working to subvert Obama for the benefit of the former First Lady. The reasonable deduction is that Clinton puts his interests, i.e. Hillary as president, above what I would expect his view of the best interest of the country would be, i.e. Obama as president. My post was a reflection on Clinton’s intent, not my views.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Classic,
I know, I know… was just kidding around. It’s Friday – was just goofing around a bit. Nobody on this blog is really going to ever change his opinion on much of anything, we all just like to argue : )
September 26th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Yo comprende! I’m guilty of that as well!
September 26th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
So…who’s still in favor of Bush’s plan to privatize Social Security and inject all that money to Wall Street?
September 26th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Bradley, What are you trying to say? I would submit to you that blowing the cover of an agent for revenge would be the actions of petulant children. If a Democrat did it you would be singing a different tune.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Bradley, You STILL have not revealed this “someone” that checked out the AWOL claim. You just knock down straw men! Do you really expect me to believe bush’s explanation? He’s as credible as you are.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:28 pm