Palin Suggests She’s Helped Protect America from Putin
In an interview with Katie Couric, Gov. Sarah Palin tried to clarify her infamous claim that she has foreign policy experience because she can “see Russia” from Alaska. But Palin may have dug herself into a deeper hole:
Katie Couric: You’ve cited Alaska’s proximity to Russia as part of your foreign policy experience. What did you mean by that?
Sarah Palin: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and, on our other side, the land-boundary that we have with Canada. It’s funny that a comment like that was kinda made to … I don’t know, you know … reporters.
Couric: Mocked?
Palin: Mocked, yeah I guess that’s the word, mocked.
Couric: Well, explain to me why that enhances your foreign-policy credentials.
Palin: Well, it certainly does, because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of. And there…
Couric: Have you ever been involved in any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?
Palin: We have trade missions back and forth, we do. It’s very important when you consider even national-security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right next to, they are right next to our state.
Keep talking, Sarah, keep talking…
September 25th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Come on John,
Obviously this was that fake Palin actress again. She should quit pretending to be Palin, people are going to start to believe some of the nonsense coming out of her mouth really is Palin, and that’s just not fair.
September 25th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Has this interview screened in the States yet?
September 25th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Why do I immediately think of this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
September 25th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Ryan, OMG thanks for the link…and to think in just a few short years she will be running for V.P. on the Republican ticket! I loved that the announcer person (Mario?) didn’t bust out laughing although he looked like he wanted to at the end.
September 25th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
So right, Ryan. I liked this one that was next to it :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEP7uti0PDw&feature=related
September 25th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Ryan,
You know what…..I am at a loss of words.. LMAO. I had forgotten about that, but that was right on point!
September 25th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
I can’t wait for the VP debate…
September 25th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Wow.
And this woman wants to be VP?
Truly scary, it is.
September 25th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
“I can’t wait for the VP debate…”
don’t hold your breath. watch the mccain campaign cancel that as well. Notice how the davis story was building, the palin disaster interview was going to air… and all of a sudden mccain had to suspend (or not) his campaign because he is the economy wiz that was going to save us all.
give me a break, wtf does john know about the economy. He had NO input today except for making some great drama. Not what you need as a president.
September 25th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
ALL ABOARD! The Stop Obama Express. A great site for Anti-Obama Fun, videos, pictures, quotes and more. Check it out at http://www.StopObamaExpress.com
September 25th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
I’m afraid it may be time for we McCain supporters to put a bag over our heads. Maybe I’ll call John and offer my services for VP. I could at least be more articulate. GROAN!
September 25th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Honestly Rise,
The VP is not a big factor – I wouldn’t be too worried about her if I were you. Granted, I want Obama to win, but I don’t think Biden or Palin are huge issues. I’ve been saying for a while to my fellow Obama supporters that Palin is just a distraction and we should focus on McCain.
But yea, this was not the McCain/Palin ticket’s finest hour. Don’t worry though, Biden can be counted on to generate some groans on my side!
September 25th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
It is hilarious to see you libs criticize this gal and say things like “TRULY SCARY” when Obama has zero experience and Biden is a gaffe-a-minute machine. OMG! A governor as VP is S-C-A-R-Y!
Cringe-worthy but ultimately meaningless.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Still haven’t seen the interview for myself, UM, but it does sound as if she’s destined to sink McCain without a trace. Andrew Sullivan (who I’m now regarding as essential reading) attached the same clip of Miss Teen Th’Iraq as Ryan did above – here’s what one of his readers wrote:-
Poor Katie! She tried and tried, didn’t she? But that Sarah… Before she opened her mouth I thought she was simply under qualified, albeit pretty. Now, after hearing how Putin flying over Alaska airspace gives her foreign policy experience, and this “So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade — we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today.” — I’ve changed my mind.
I think she’s just dumber than a door knob. Seriously.
Her candidacy is the biggest joke in modern American political history. No competitor.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
REPUBLICANS = MORALS that stand for good families and also good value.
DEMOCRATS = Loose Morals and BAD BAD VALUES. They stand with OBAMA because he does not care what families think and do just to get their vote and what about the abortion factor. shame on you OBAMA – just to get peoples vote you sell your soul. Time to search yourself OBAMA. You are pulling down God’s Morals to institute your own. Bad move just like you made a bad move with Hillary. Women SHOULD NOT vote for OBAMA because you just might give birth to a child that will save the world whether that child has down syndrome or not. It is nobody’s right to abort life. It is time for all women to search deep within their hearts and see if it is right. If you do have an abortion that will haunt you to the grave. Believe me.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Jesus Christ… genius alert.
No to Obama No to Abortion No to thought No to reason no to reality.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:33 am
This thread, just like nearly every other thread on this website, shows that conservatives–or at least the ones who post here (and I hope to God that they aren’t representative of most other conservatives)–are completely unable to READ AND COMPREHEND the comments left by other people. If they were, they wouldn’t keep regurgitating the same dull insults and talking points every single time.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Yeah, repubs claim to be the party of morals and rule of law. Is torture moral? How about chasing young male pages around washington? Having affairs while your wife is in the hospital? Invade a country that was no threat , then proceed to kill thousands of civilians? At least democrats don’t make claim to the moral high ground. Hypocrites.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:40 am
No I think a door knob is smarter! Can these interviews get any worse?! They are an absolute train wreck. Heard her polls have dropped. Hopefully people will come to their senses.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Palin is too good to be true. You can all eat her dust!
September 26th, 2008 at 1:28 am
The Republican ticket is falling apart. Give it a few more days.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:39 am
You CAN see Russia from Alaska.
First you go to the Bering Straits. That’s about 50 miles across. In the middle of that are two islands, Big Diomede, owned by Russia, and Little Diomede (population 146), owned by the US.
They are about 2.5 miles apart.
One could possibly see from one island to the other, though “visibility is often limited with thick cloud cover and light mist or fog.”
However…
Wales, Alaska (population 152), is the western-most town on the Seward Peninsula, on the eastern side of the Bering Straits.
Wales, Alaska, is roughly 560 miles WNW of Wasilla.
And it is roughly 1060 miles WNW of Juneau, the capital of Alaska, where the governor’s mansion is located.
Therefore, there are approximately 298 Alaskans (146 + 152) who, on any given day, might be able to “see” Russia. Sarah Palin is unlikely to be among them.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Republicans do not equal morals, Neither do the Democrats, nobody has the high ground on the morals issue, the christian right are the ones that claim that, it just so happens the majority of them are republicans. Keep your morality to yourself, Priests molesting boys, Ministers condemning gays while having “relations” with men themselves, representatives of states doing all sorts of immoral acts all while telling me what is right and wrong. Not everyone believes as you believe, the abortion issue is blown off the roof. Nobody has the right to tell me what I can do with my body and trying to tell me you know when life begins is well above your paygrade as well. While I don’t believe in abortion for myself, it doesn’t give me the right to tell someone else what to do. I am an atheist, I don’t feel the need to believe in any mythical figures to help me get through the day, but I don’t condemn anyone else for believing in what they feel they need to believe in. Just don’t try to govern this country with your beliefs. There are too many different types of religion in the world with many different views, only one of you can be right. By the way, I’ve raised two wonderful daughters, neither of whom have been pregnant out of wedlock, never been in jail, have never been involved with drugs, alcohol or any other problems, religion doesn’t define morals, it’s what you do when nobody’s looking.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:49 am
You know what all us fools are putting our trust in man and NOT in God and that is going to be the downfall of man.
What a pity that we believe that either Repulicans or Democrats can do anything for us or for the good of this world. We should stop fooling ourselves.
We allow ourselves to be mis-led by man. If you are a non believer in what God wants from you then go back to the drawing board and find out. It is all there in the bible. We are just to lazy to find out for ourselves. We rather trust man to lead us. What a terrible mistake. Religion is a VIRUS!!!!!! and most of the world has caught it. The devil wins.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:13 am
You know what’s funny about Faith’s statement… it’s that he assumes that because people ASPIRE to live by certain values, that those people claim that they actually do live by them..
That’s false. I never see Christians claiming that they actually behave in total conformance to their values… what they do do is make the case for why a person would benefit by striving to live by those values.
Apparently the Left can ram their lifestyle down the entire world’s throat but a Christian can’t even talk about his… is that right?
What it boils down to is a person’s rejection and resentment of a God who demands people live in a moral, holy way. Since some people absolutely reject living like that, they take their anger out at anyone who accepts that challenge.
And that’s why you see such anger and hate directed by people who claim to be against hate toward Christians.. and usually wrapped up in the most absurd and bigoted lies and stereotyping.
And then there’s the usual checklist of sins.
Like I said to someone else.. the Left swims in hypocracy constantly. There isn’t a thing they claim they believe in, that they wont betray if by violating it they can score some political advantage, because no matter what a Leftist claims his values are, the only true thing he craves is power over others.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:45 am
vinny, what is your definition of a Leftist?
September 26th, 2008 at 3:55 am
Faith – you say that you are an atheist. Which side of the fence are you on. What is the first thing that comes out of our mouths when bad things happen to us. OH GOD!!!
Atheists do not believe in God so who are you going to call for help. Call Obama because he also does not believe in God and one never hears him speak about God. So who is his master? I think that both you and him serve the same one. God loves America but Atheists don’t love God.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:57 am
Vince.. Good on you mate. Stick up for the truth because that is the only person(Holy Spirit) that is going to set us free.
You know why Obama got the celebs to rally behind him is because their morals are just as tainted as His.
I NEVER allow my children to even look at them because I definitely DO NOT want my children to follow their image. Oh!! No!! We have to protect our children into thinking that these celebs including MABUS!!! I am sure that most of you will know who that is. He is the
“dark horse” in the race to the whitehouse.
Vince why don’t you run for President He!!
This man Obama has a hidden agenda..watch!!!
September 26th, 2008 at 4:09 am
Leftist is someone angry/resentful/disatisified/disillusioned with the society around them, that they seek to transform , in order to create a system of social justice and harmony with an emphasis on a misguided notion of equality. They believe in using the power of the State to force this transformation onto the society.
What they fail to realize is that due to human nature, there will always be a disparity of human talent and therefore not all people can be in material equality.
They also view those who do not subscribe to that vision as evil or dangerous because the Leftist elevates himself above all others and has contempt for people with non-enlightened opinions.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:09 am
Jefro,
When God starts sorting out the “lambs” from the “goats” who do you think go to the right and who do you think go to the left. Work that one out and please come back with a suitable answer.
Nothing that is unclean goes to the right????
September 26th, 2008 at 4:13 am
Democrats!!!!
Did you see the latest. NEWSFLASH!!!!
Hispanics are jumping ship. They argue the fact that Obama now loves them because he wants their vote. I am telling you. People are not fools. Lots more are bailing out and jumping on the Republicans side.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:23 am
I contacted my friend in Alaska and he confirms that all the witches have been driven out of the “last frontier”. They were being driven in a yellow school bus that had a sign on the side stating “be afraid, be very afraid, Palin/McBush may be elected”. I said “thanks but no thanks” and praise god(the christian one – not that other one if you know what I mean). In what respect guys and gals?
September 26th, 2008 at 4:24 am
This is a great definition of the Left.. it’s very close to my own
The Left are self-aggrandizing crooks who gain power by deceiving the uninformed with snake-oil promises. “Power at any price” is their intrinsic motto — power which they invariably use to destroy. Destruction is all that they are good at.
Leftists don’t have principles. How can they when “there is no such thing as right and wrong”? All they have is postures, pretend-principles that can be changed as easily as one changes one’s shirt
The naive scholar who searches for a consistent Leftist program will not find it. What there is consists only in the negation of the present.
Why are Leftists always talking about hate? Because it fills their own hearts
Among well-informed people, Leftism is a character defect. Leftists hate success in others — which is why notably successful societies such as the USA and Israel are hated and failures such as the Palestinians can do no wrong.
Leftists call their hatred of Israel “Anti-Zionism” but Zionists are only a small minority in Israel
Some of the Leftist hatred of Israel is motivated by old-fashioned antisemitism (beliefs in Jewish “control” etc.) but most of it is just the regular Leftist hatred of success in others. And because the societies they inhabit do not give them the vast amount of recognition that their large but weak egos need, some of the most virulent haters of Israel and America live in those countries. So the hatred is the product of pathologically high self-esteem.
A Leftist’s beliefs are all designed to pander to his ego. So when you have an argument with a Leftist, you are not really discussing the facts. You are threatening his self esteem. Which is why the normal Leftist response to challenge is mere abuse.
Because of the fragility of a Leftist’s ego, anything that threatens it is intolerable and provokes rage. So most Leftist blogs can be summarized in one sentence: “How DARE anybody question what I believe!”. Rage and abuse substitute for an appeal to facts and reason.
Their threatened egos sometimes drive Leftists into quite desperate flights from reality. For instance, they often call Israel an “Apartheid state” — when it is in fact the Arab states that practice Apartheid — witness the severe restrictions on Christians in Saudi Arabia. There are no such restrictions in Israel.
Because their beliefs serve their ego rather than reality, Leftists just KNOW what is good for us. Conservatives need evidence.
Regular readers will have noticed that what I say about Leftists sometimes sounds reminiscent of what Leftists say about conservatives. There is an excellent reason for that. Leftists are great “projectors” (people who see their own faults in others). So a good first step in finding out what is true of Leftists is to look at what they say about conservatives! They even accuse conservatives of projection (of course).
The research shows clearly that one’s Left/Right stance is strongly genetically inherited but nobody knows just what specifically is inherited. What is inherited that makes people Leftist or Rightist? There is any amount of evidence that personality traits are strongly genetically inherited so my proposal would be that hard-core Leftists are people who tend to let their emotions run away with them and who are much more in need of praise from others — two attributes that are probably related to one another. Such Leftists may be an evolutionary leftover from a more primitive past.
People who mention differences in black vs. white IQ are these days almost universally howled down and subjected to the most extreme abuse. I am a psychometrician, however, so I feel obliged to defend the scientific truth of the matter: The average black adult has about the same IQ as an average white 11-year-old. The American Psychological Association is generally Left-leaning but it is the world’s most prestigious body of academic psychologists. And even they have had to concede that sort of gap (one SD) in black vs. white average IQ. 11-year olds can do a lot of things but they also have their limits and there are times when such limits need to be allowed for.
Some Jimmy Carter wisdom: “I think it’s inevitable that there will be a lower standard of living than what everybody had always anticipated,” he told advisers in 1979. “there’s going to be a downward turning.”
Many people hunger and thirst after righteousness. Some find it in the hatreds of the Left. Others find it in the love of Christ. I don’t hunger and thirst after righteousness at all. I hunger and thirst after truth. How old-fashioned can you get?
COMMENTS: I have gradually added comments facilities to all my blogs. The comments I get are interesting. They are mostly from Leftists and most consist either of abuse or mere assertions. Reasoned arguments backed up by references to supporting evidence are almost unheard of from Leftists. Needless to say, I just delete such useless comments.
Leftists seem to believe that if someone like Al Gore says it, it must be right. They obviously have a strong need for an authority figure. The fact that the two most authoritarian regimes of the 20th century (Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia) were socialist is thus no surprise. Leftists often accuse conservatives of being “authoritarian” but that is just part of their usual “projective” strategy — seeing in others what is really true of themselves.
Postings from Brisbane, Australia by John Ray (M.A.; Ph.D.) — former member of the Australia-Soviet Friendship Society, former anarcho-capitalist and former member of the British Conservative party.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:54 am
Vince P.
SPOT ON. These leftys do not know about good morals.
Teach them Vince. Bring them to the light. Obama loves the celebs. When harm comes to America. God forbid it never happens. All his celebs will be so full of drugs because that is their lifestyle. They won’t even hear the alarm bell and so won’t he because he is not a man of good morals. Where is the money for that supposed park that he was going to get up and running for his people.It is only a bunch of fools that can’t see what’s going on. Oh! what a shame. If the democrats can mock Sarah and John that do have money. What are they going to do to those that do not have. They will stamp you into the ground,pick you up and throw you away. This campaing is Dark verses Light,
September 26th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Al Gore is pulling the wool over your eyes. Whichever way the climate goes here on earth is NOT determined by Al Gore but by God because He created it and He knows when it will end. Hang!!! You guys can let anyone fool you. This is a money making racket and you fools are being led to believe all this garbage. i tell you why!! They drive you into fear of the unknown. Time to read your bibles then you will not fear. Why do you want to live in this world that is being detroyed by man. If God is on your side what is the problem. Stop fearing and start obeying God and not man.
September 26th, 2008 at 5:43 am
“In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king”
How nice it must be for the cut’n'paste guru to be followed and adored by his own personal army of idiots.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:02 am
Al Gore’s secretary,
That’s EXACTLY what Osama bin Ladin tells HIS followers.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Vince P,
So what are your thoughts about the Sara Palin interview?
It seems you have spent so much time erroneously generalizing my morals and belief system, and inadvertently neglected to state your position on the topic of this thread.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Little bit of cut’n'pasting of my own
Palin talks to Couric — and if she’s lucky, few are listening
The financial crisis has an upside for the Republican vice presidential candidate: It takes the spotlight away as she begins answering more pointed questions from the media.
A global financial crisis and a not-quite-suspended presidential campaign dominated newspaper front pages and television reports over the last couple of days.
Bad news for America. But good news for Sarah Palin.
The economic crisis and John McCain’s surprising response have drawn attention away from the Republican vice presidential nominee just as she has started to answer more pointed questions from the media.
Her third nationally televised interview, with CBS anchor Katie Couric, found Palin rambling, marginally responsive and even more adrift than during her network debut with ABC’s Charles Gibson.
In a 40-minute session with Couric that aired Wednesday and Thursday nights, the Alaska governor defended her puzzling claim that geographic proximity makes her some sort of expert on Russia; went nearly blank when queried about McCain’s achievements as a big-business regulator; agreed America “may find itself” on the road to another Great Depression; and, promoting a troop surge in Afghanistan, casually suggested that it “will lead us to victory there, as it has proven to have done in Iraq.”
The last statement couldn’t help but conjure an image from 2003 — President Bush beaming in that green flight suit before the infamous “Mission Accomplished” banner.
Palin’s unblinking certitude gave way at other times in the interview to a striking imprecision, as when she struggled to respond to Couric’s suggestion that the $700-billion bailout might be better funneled through middle-class families instead of Wall Street firms.
“That’s why I say I, like every American I’m speaking with, we’re ill about this position that we have been put in . . .” Palin began, before meandering off in fruitless pursuit of coherence.
But I’ll let the governor speak for herself:
” . . . where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh — it’s got to be all about job creation too. Shoring up our economy, and putting it back on the right track. So healthcare reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade, we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, um, scary thing, but 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that.”
That mind-bender prompted Couric to muse, almost charitably, on “The Early Show” that Palin is “not always responsive when asked questions, and sometimes does slip back to her talking points.”
It didn’t go much better for Palin when she tried to clarify the mystery of what her state’s proximity to Russia has taught her about that nation. Anyone south of the Arctic Circle would have seen this question coming and had a ready answer. But seemingly not the governor.
“We have trade missions back and forth,” Palin told Couric. “We, we do, it’s very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the airspace of the United States of America, where, where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to, to our state.”
Certainly, Russia’s prime minister, Vladimir Putin, has demonstrated his willingness to invade its small neighbors. But have I missed news of recent provocations by Russian bombers over Kiwalik or Aleknagik? And if Palin has been intensely interested in her neighbor across the Bering Strait, that also has escaped the reporters who follow her most closely.
In fact, a veteran reporter from her home state, Hal Bernton, reported in the Seattle Times this month how Russian politicians had sought more contact with Palin, but in vain. The governor cut funding and her office’s participation, it seems, in the Northern Forum, which promotes relations between regional governments in the Northern Hemisphere.
A Palin spokeswoman e-mailed that she would provide more detail about Palin’s trade activities with the Russkies. No word by deadline.
But wait. Certainly the issue dominating the news would provide the governor with a respite from these maddening demands for, you know, facts.
With McCain now depicting himself as the doctor ready to deliver tough medicine to Wall Street, Couric asked Palin to explain what measures he had pushed in the past.
Palin raised McCain’s support of revamped oversight for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two mortgage giants that are on life support. Fine.
But when the network anchor pressed for other examples, given that the Republican has been in Congress for nearly three decades, Palin came up blank.
“I’ll try to find some” — Palin smiled at Couric — “and bring them to you.”
Palin at least kept her answers shorter during a Q&A with reporters Thursday morning, her first such session since McCain unleashed her on the national scene four weeks ago.
Although she didn’t really answer two of the four questions, many Americans won’t hold that against her. They see someone who understands what it’s like in a small town.
Common sense has its value, and commentaries like this one, suggesting Palin’s shortcomings, will only confirm to her fans that she is not a pet of the media elite. But it seems only sensible to wonder whether charm and pluck will be enough the next time Putin rears his head.
james.rainey@latimes.com
September 26th, 2008 at 8:42 am
REPUBLICANS = MORALS that stand for good families and also good value.
Posted by No to Obama No to Abortion
Moral values like this
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/national_enquirer_world_exclusive_sarah_palins_secret_lover_revealed/celebrity/65481
September 26th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Scarborough: If she can’t answer basic questions, that’s tough. Katie did not ask her tough questions, her questions were very fair. Apparently Katie asked her, “what’s the worst thing Dick Cheney did”, and she answered “Shooting his friend with the gun”. Us Elections aren’t a meritocracy, about picking the most qualified people, it’s obvious she has very little knowledge of US facts. She may be a good person and a good governor, she has also has a high approval rating, but is this is the best person you can find for Vice President? but what does this say about Palin and McCain’s judgment?
September 26th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Former McCain campaign Manager, “Hot” Mike Murphy, said that:
Well you know Pat, I never agreed with the Palin pick in the first place. I said she’s a good base pick, but this is not a base vote type of year. The McCain camp has problems, because it seems CBS has more footage, and it’s not any better, then what we’ve already seen.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:06 am
McCain Camp insiders say Palin “clueless”
Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people
are more than concerned about Palin. The campaign has held
a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as “disastrous.” One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, “What are we going to do?” The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is “clueless.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:07 am
“The reason so many people support her is because she’s just an American and if we’re ever going to get this govt under control , it will be through regular Americans”
we are not voting for miss america. We are voting for the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. What was once an office that was respected. With the likes of Bush, Clinton, Bush II – the office has lost all respect. We don’t need a pretty face and a down home sensibility. We need leadership and yes, intelligence. We need someone that knows history, that can discuss economy, foreign policy, legislative law, and sometimes all at once.
You want to disagree on policy, fine. But don’t be stupid to say that she is anywhere near ready. She can’t even answer the simplest of questions. This is after being coached, going over questions, having mock interviews… and this is the best she can come out with. Besides talking points, she has no opinion of her own.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:13 am
WTF,
Do you have friends in the McCain camp? If all you men ever heard a man in the republican party say the same thing the responce would be very different. Better be very careful what you guys wish for.
Biden didn’t know who was the president when we had the 29 crash…he also didn’t know we didn’t have tv then too. He should have known a lawyer and in the senate for 36 years.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Vince,
So her answer regarding John S McCain’s specific examples of trying to rein in the financial system was good enough for you?
Her answer about how Alaska’s proximity to Russia gives her some foreign affairs experience is good for you also?
Please explain in detail how, and why you are comfortable with this person being a 72-year-old hart beat away from becoming the President of the United States of America.
Also would John S McCain not fall into that “Professional Lawyer/Politician/Insider class have run things inside Washington DC” category, and if not why?
Thank you in advance for you thoughtful and well researched reply.
Best regards,
CDP
September 26th, 2008 at 10:16 am
David Yepsen at the Des Moines Register:
And Sarah Palin’s effect may be peaking. She seems uncomfortable in the rare interviews she grants. She doesn’t leave you with the impression she’d be any more competent to handle the nation’s economic anxieties than its foreign relations. Yes, she may be pro-family and a mom with five kids. That’s great but Americans are looking for someone to handle Wall Street and Iraq, not Bristol and Track.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:23 am
charles grashow,
Re:
Republicans and Morality…
I can understand why they need the government’s help.
The divorce rates and teen pregnancy drop from the bluest states , and are highest in the reddest states.
From; http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/11/wolcott200611
You might claim that they are left leaning,(because they are NOT right leaning), but that doesn’t change the truth.
It’s the Republican red states that are lowering the country’s moral standards and dragging us through muck and malaise, the red states that are pustulating with horny hypocrites, rampant crime, polygamy, crystal-meth labs, federal handouts (The Economist recently christened Alaska “America’s welfare state”), illegitimate births, blimping waistlines, and future generations of dumb bunnies.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:27 am
WTF,
David Yepsen at the Des Moines Register:
SO, is that supposed to impress me?
September 26th, 2008 at 10:53 am
very interesting read oldlefty. many interesting things said in that article. my favorite
Under Karl Rove’s sorcerer’s spell, Republicans learned how to exploit the intelligence gap, herding the dopey faithful to the polls, and depending on their docility between elections. “Karl Rove was there to recognize that there were substantial powers to be obtained by catering to stupid stubborn people, and George W. Bush would be the man to harvest such resources,” … “George W. understood stupid people well. They were not dumb, their minds were not physically crippled in any way. They had chosen to be stupid because that offered its own kind of power. To win a great many small contests of will, they needed only to ignore all evidence.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Palin talks to Couric — and if she’s lucky, few are listening
James Rainey – LATimes
Her third nationally televised interview, with CBS anchor Katie Couric, found Palin rambling, marginally responsive and even more adrift than during her network debut with ABC’s Charles Gibson….
September 26th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Couric shines, Palin doesn’t in CBS interview
The Oregonian
Ouch. Only one of the two women showed poise, focus and a good grasp of the facts, and it wasn’t the one who’s running for vice president….
September 26th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I’m sorry — Sarah Palin is a bad joke
Jay Bookman – Atlanta Journal and Constitution
Palin is living, breathing proof that John McCain lies when he claims to put this country first over politics. She makes Dan Quayle look like Albert Einstein with a better haircut.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Working Mom sweared!
WTF
Really Working Mom. Such a potty mouth.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Palin should only do interview with Foxy NEWS water-CARRIER,SHOUTING HEADS, JUNKYARD DOGS(S. Hannity).
September 26th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Not sure how in the middle and unbiased vanity fair is? According to the Guttmacher study of 2006 Nevada had the highest teen pregnancy rate, that is a toss-up state. Arizona 2 (red state) MS 3 (red state). New Mexico #4 (blue state), Texas #5 (red), florida #6- toss up. #7 California (blue) Georgia #8 (red), NC (toss up). That is 3 states that are undecided, 4 that are red and 2 that are blue.
Ironically, the states with the lowest pregnancy rate had the HIGHEST abortion rates, which indicates just as many girls are having sex and getting pregnant but they are terminating the pregnancies.
When you look at statistics you need to know what population was looked at, what the variables were, etc. YOu can manipulate information easily.
I would like to know if ALL the girls/overweight people in this study were in fact Republicans as you put it?
I would guess there are as many democrats that love a big mac as republicans, and hormones in teenagers don’t favor one party over the other.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:23 am
National Review (even the right has turned on her)
Palin’s recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.
No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I’ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I’ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.
…
Only Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons,
September 26th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Vince,
You will never get the hard core liberal base who actually believe their party never does any wrong to admit that fact.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:35 am
T. Mason correctly said:
You will never get the hard core liberal base who actually believe their party never does any wrong to admit that fact.
Yep, just like the hard core Republicans. But most people who support Democrats and most people who support Republicans get irritated with their party, now and then.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Excuse the lateness of this reply, I do have a life and can’t sit on here all night and day, I have a young son I still need to mold to my immoral life. First off Mr. Vince, I’m a she, not a he. I expected your answer to be the norm when Christians don’t conform to their own beliefs, no conviction. Saying you only aspire to behave in a certain way while trying to tell others how to behave is hypocritical. You believe in the bible and follow only the rules that are convenient at the time. I have no hatred and my statements weren’t of the hatred nature and since I have no religious beliefs there isn’t any I can betray. And as for god lover, I don’t know what fence your refering to. Who am I calling for help, from what? People dying every day, little children being bombed, children being killed at the hands of their parents, women being raped, look at all this crime, If your god is so powerful why does he allow this to go on? Oh, there’s a plan, please tell me what that plan is, I have no need for a god that allows all that hatred to abound. Does god only love America, not any other country? I suppose that’s why my Giants won the superbowl last year he loves the NYG. I don’t need to cry for help. As far as Sen. Obama, he doesn’t need to keep mentioning the god he believes in. Religious people are always saying that’s personal, between you and your god, and he’s intelligent enough to know his beliefs don’t need to mix with his politics. No I don’t love god, you have to believe in order to love, just as you have to believe in order to hate.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Vince:
“What’s funny here is that as bad as people think Palin is, she’s got way more esxpeirnce than Obama”
Nice try Vince but that does not answer my questions. However if you would like to expand on that point please do. And do not forget to include specific examples, as we all know any argument without examples is useless and only makes you look foolish.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:55 am
A scientific textbook called “Basics of Biology” gives five characteristics of living things; these five criteria are found in all modern elementary scientific textbooks:
1. Living things are highly organized.
2. All living things have an ability to acquire materials and energy.
3. All living things have an ability to respond to their environment.
4. All living things have an ability to reproduce.
5. All living things have an ability to adapt.
If you take these SCIENTIFIC definitions to heart, and don’t want to throw religion into the mix, life begins at fertilization when a sperm and egg unite.
At that moment the being is highly organized, it can acquire energy and materials, resonds to the environment, and can reproduce (rapid cell division).
Non-living things do not have these capabilities.
The argument of “when does life begin” has been answered, and it is at fertilization IF you believe in science. You are either alive or dead, not in-between.
Take the DNA of an aborted fetus to a lab, and the lab results will show the fetus is human.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Faith,
I think I have figured it out! Christians are intolerant of people who don’t believe in God because they can’t stand it that there are people who don’t want to be like just like them. Perhaps they wonder if we know something they don’t? I always love it when the argument turns personal and that if one is an atheist they don’t have moral values. Morals aren’t about religion they are about conscience. Ghandi didn’t believe in God and even the most fanatical religious nutcase couldn’t argue that he was immoral. One of my favorite Ghandi quotes: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I live in the biblebelt and I would love to have this bumper sticker on my car. But, do you know what would happen? Some Christian with all their morals would key my car. It seems to me that religious fanatics are the root of most evil in all parts of the world.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
If you understood the Christian faith, you would know that we are supposed to spread the word and care for the souls of other people. We actually understand that the beauty of God’s creation is the variation he created.
You might want to look across this board and see that hate filters through non-believers as well, usually at Christians.
The word Christian means “Christ like” and some wear the banner and do bad things, that doesn’t mean all Christians should be judged on that action.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Vince,
I do apologize I did not realize that asking someone to have actual facts to back up their assertions was being “nitpickery”
This seems to also be a problem within the McCain~Palin campaigns so don’t feel so bad.
Funny I guess John S McCain is not the only republican that has trouble multi-tasking.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
T. Mason,
That’s EXACTLY what the Muslims say.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
“Take the DNA of an aborted fetus to a lab, and the lab results will show the fetus is human.”
take a dead Iraqi child to a lab, and the lab results will show the dead child was a human killed by American bombs.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Kuvas,
That quote by Ghandi is also one of my favorites.
Another is:
“There has been only one Christian. They caught him and crucified him–early.”
Mark Twain
Notebook, 1898
September 26th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
T. Mason,
What you have just described is (part) of the list of what is considered the characteristics of life. The part you have missed though is that this list is to be applied to an organism that can do those things on its own.
The complete list:
Movement- the ability to change position of body/part or internal organ
Responsiveness- reaction to change inside or outside the body
Growth-ability to increase is size without change in shape
Reproduction-new organisms or cells
Respiration- obtain oxygen, remove carbon dioxide and release energy from food (Fetus cannot due this unless aided by an organism)
Digestion- breakdown of substances in to simpler forms that can be absorbed (Fetus is not capable).
Absorption- passage of substance through membranes into organs (technically this is only possible because of circulation in mother organism)
Circulation- movement of substance from place to place in body fluids (see above)
Assimilation- changing of absorbed substance into chemically different forms
Excretion- removal of wastes produced by metabolic reactions (fetus has no working lungs so cannot remove wastes from cell toxins)
September 26th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Vince P,
You said, “Palin has 80% Approval Rating in Alaska. Whose judgment do you trust?”
MY OWN and I think that is the difference between you and I.
Old Lefty, Thanks for the quote I had not ssen that one!
September 26th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Vince,
I see that you have time to cut and past, but that still does not answer my questions to you.
You need to be careful one might think that you have no facts to support your stated position
If you need more time I will be happy to check back after I get home from work to today.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
KUVAS, Thanks for the support. I love that quote. What hyposcrisy. I love that word. They preach love and tolerance and have no idea what that concept is. But I have no morals because I don’t believe. As I said before I have no problem with people who feel they need to believe in something to get them through the day, I take responsibility for myself, the way I treat other people and they way I live my life. Fear is their way to scare others to believe. There’s no room for fear in my life, I’m too busy living in the now.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Movement- the ability to change position of body/part or internal organ
They move while in utero, and noone to my knowledge moves their internal organs.
Responsiveness- reaction to change inside or outside the body
They move away from light, sleep and wake based on movement of the mother, move away from pain, grimace with painful stimulus, heartrate increases/decreases based in food/drug intake of mother, etc.
Growth-ability to increase is size without change in shape..
They do this constantly
Reproduction-new organisms or cells
Cells are constantly dividing from the moment of conception
Respiration- obtain oxygen, remove carbon dioxide and release energy from food
Neither can people who have received general anesthesia during routine surgery, or those in ICU’s should we get rid of them too? Doesn’t mean they are dead
(Fetus cannot due this unless aided by an organism)
Digestion- breakdown of substances in to simpler forms that can be absorbed
Fetus is not capable).
some people are not capbable of complete digestion. some lose their intestines, stomachs, etc. Does that mean they aren’t alive? NO
Absorption- passage of substance through membranes into organs
(technically this is only possible because of circulation in mother organism)
Tehcnically, they are capable of doing it if you don’t kill them.People with cystic fibrosis, taking chemo, intestinal problems need assistance with nutrient absorption, doesn’t mean they aren’t living
Circulation- movement of substance from place to place in body fluids (see above)
Assimilation- changing of absorbed substance into chemically different forms
Excretion- removal of wastes produced by metabolic reactions (fetus has no working lungs so cannot remove wastes from cell toxins)
True the mother aids with removal of wastes, but babies do urinate while in utero
The fact is, the baby is alive otherwise it wouldn’t be capable of doing any of these things with or without help.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Funny, Christians believe in personal responsibility too. It is sad that those who don’t believe think believing is a detriment.
If you don’t want to believe in anything, don’t.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Vince P,
I know that you must be aware that Eddie Burke broadcast anti-Palin rally organizers phone numbers over the air and urged his listeners to call them. Which is worse? I would rather have someone boo me on the street, but if you would rather get a phone call feel free to post your phone number on the forum. Oh and you might Google the above referenced anti-Palin rally in Anchorage; turns out it was the largest political rally in the AK’s history.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
kuvas and faith would get my vote if they ran for anything… i’m available for a cabinet position and im sure old lefty would be also. gotta love the twain.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Oh T. Mason you are clutching at straws! You argued some points that I had given you. I specifically addressed the points where your argument had a problem. And it still does. You are the one that decided to argue your point with the “characteristics of life.” Don’t blame me that it didn’t work out for you. All of your responses are weak because you say such silly things like
“Tehcnically, they are capable of doing it if you don’t kill them.People with cystic fibrosis, taking chemo, intestinal problems need assistance with nutrient absorption, doesn’t mean they aren’t living”
The FACTS are a fetus cannot do those things and the requirements that science has defined in the characteristics are not negotiable. You can’t just decided being unable to do it all without being a “parasite” on a living organism is the same as having a secondary nutritional deficiency due to an inability to properly absorb nutrients. I am not saying your argument is dead, I am just recommending that if you are going to base an argument on science find science that supports your argument.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Kuvas,
The 5 points I posted are from MD’s who are also OB/GYN’s. I didn’t make them up and they are in science books. Those “parasites” you describe have the same DNA as you and I from the moment of conception.
I think the question was, when does life begin? The organism is ALIVE you can’t argue that. If it weren’t alive, it would be DEAD.
A book isn’t alive, a tree is alive, things/objects are either living or non-living, alive or dead. What kind of “life” are we looking for on mars? An organism can be unicellular and still be alive. Bacteria is alive. Viruses are alive.
Many of the people you see in the hospital are not capable of doing all of those things on their own, machines and medications do it for them. Doesn’t mean they are dead.
The fact of the matter is, life as defined by science begins at conception.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry.”
Mark Twain . whoaaa mark not so fast apparently there are some left in alaska.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
T. Mason, I believe in your first post you said your points were from a textbook on basic biology, but now they are from Ob/Gyn’s? There are more than 5 points for the characteristics of life. Would you agree that the points I added are also important or do they not mean anything because they weren’t in the basic textbook? A fetus is indeed a parasite look up the definition. Again you are wrong, viruses are not considered alive by the scientific community because they cannot reproduce unless they are in a cell of a host organism. (oh and by the way viruses are acellular not unicellular) I would recommend you take some classes in Human Anatomy & Physiology as well as Microbiology. And as for DNA all living organisms use precisely the same DNA; it is universal.
Since this is going nowhere, it is the legal definition of when life begins that you should be concerned with to further your cause.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
T. Mason, Kuvas, others:
Not that I am going to enter into a debate about abortion – but re: ‘life’ T. Mason is correct. A zygote is unquestionably alive.
If you guys want to debate person hood, sentience, etc… that’s a whole ‘nother ball of haploids.
September 26th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Sheesh… I’m making another post on a topic I swore I would never debate.. but Kuvas, really…
You are simultaneously arguing that a fetus is not alive
AND
that it is a ‘parasite’?
I’m not going to get into the science of that one, or the propriety of referring fetus as a parasite, but by your logic presumably a parasite is not a living organism.
Seriously dude, or dudette, pick up a biology book and read it some time if you are going to debate this in a public forum.
Have some pity, you are hurting my brain. It was already in poor shape after spending last night talking to evolution deniers.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
She has my vote. Liberal idiots never ask Barack Obama if he has ever protected anything. He can’t even protect newborn babies. He is running for president and has ZERO foreign policy experience ( don’t bring in kenya as a kid crap)Joe Biden sucks at it. So it looks like sarah, who is GOING TO BE THE VP idiots, has the experience overall. Go to a site that has truth to it. Go to Idiots4Obama dot com and leave your liberal idiot comments. By the way, Michelle and Barack are laughing at you stupid white liberals voting for them when trust me, they don’t like you. I have studied Barack Obamas life and Black liberation Theology and you people are idiots.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Kuvas,
The book was written by OB/GYNS’
You can call a fetus a parasite if you want, it devalues what it really is and makes it easier to rationalize killing it.
I didn’t say viruses/bacteria are unicellular, I said a unicellular organism can be alive.
Bacteria grows and reproduces,and a virus must be inside a host to live and multiply. Some biologists see viruses as living (because of what happens inside the host cell) others would argue they are not.
I have taken many science classes and there has never been division about whether or not a fetus/zygote/baby in utero is alive or not. The question has been when they receive their soul/become a “person”.
THAT is a religious/moral/ethical question that must be answered by each individual.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Katies a cunt anyway. If it had been barack, she would of been on her knees swallowing that pubic hair. seriouslly. so would chris matthews, keith olbermann and the other boy racheal maddow.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Vince,
Thanks for the youtube links. I will check them out after work today.
However, I feel that I must remind you that you have yet to answer even one of the questions that I have asked of you.
It is beginning to look like yourself and the republican vice-president candidate have a few things in common.
Best regards,
CDP
September 26th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Johnny,
Pretty insightful stuff there, I really appreciate how you took so much time to gather all those facts. Now I can really see how understanding and tolerant today’s GOP is
BTW would you kiss your mother with that mouth?
Best regards,
CDP
September 26th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
“A group of McCain-Palin supporters dare to march through the Upper West Side – and are met with hatred and rage for being infidels in the heart of liberal Mecca.”
And people on the sidewalk have just as much right to express their views as anyone else. But if it was the ACLU marching through your hometown people would be throwing things and reaching for their hunting rifles–because they’re such patriots and they believe so fervently in “American” values.
__________________
““Liberal” elites believe that all ideologies are morally equal, except the one that supports capitalism and individual liberties…”
Another “fact” from the “expert” on all things “liberal”.
___________________
“FACT: Islamic radicals would be more welcome on the Upper West Side than American patriots.”
Given how you’re likely to define a “patriot,” I’d have to say that the “patriot” and the “Islamic radical” would be EQUALLY unwelcome, because they have everything in common, like two sides of the same tired old coin.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Vince said,
Wrong wrong wrong. Republicans and conservatives CONSTANTLY point out the wrong things the GOP does.
I don’t know man. I see liberals arguing with each other on this blog, I don’t see conservatives disagreeing much. I even had a pretty hard time getting any conservatives to disagree with The Conservative’s statement:
Why don’t you all go back to watching all of your favorite homosexual porn movies with your favorite child, or children.
As being an unfair portrayal of liberal beliefs. I don’t think the conservatives on this blog need to respond to my every question or anything. I’m not the boss of any of you. But I generally respond to questions the various conservatives ask. And at least semi-regularly chastise outrageous statements by folks on my side (not all of them, obviously – but if asked to respond to something by a regular poster who I had traded a few posts with, I’m pretty sure I would respond).
Rise was the only person who directly disagreed with this as being a fair portrayal, and I had never even seen her on the blog before. T. Mason may have (I had a hard time understanding which part of her response was related to The Conservative’s statement – I strongly suspect T. Mason would not support The Conservative’s statement however).
As far as the big bad world beyond this blog… The Democratic party is famous for being disorganized and having a hard time getting things done due to internal bickering. The Republicans really seem to be able to make good use of any time they have even the slimmest majority of Republicans.
I don’t think your argument holds any water.
By the way, I did not specifically ask you – but what do you think of The Conservative’s quote above? Do you think it ‘proper perspective’ of liberal beliefs, as he claimed? Or would you find them hateful? Don’t know why I didn’t include you in the group of people I asked the question of originally, I have probably chatted with you more than any of the other conservative posters.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
There’s an important election 38 days or so away with lots of ramifications on all sorts of economic and social issues, as well as the future of America’s relationship with the rest of the world.
So why do so many of your arguments end up fixating on abortion? It’s a lost issue – there’s nothing you can do about it until the religious conservatives hold all the cards again; Presidency, Senate and House. Right now, hell freezing over seems a better bet than that one.
Even if the angry old man and his half-brained sidekick did manage to deny the uppity black boy his place in history, how on Earth could they achieve anything with a hostile Congress? Get another rabid neocon or religious nutcase confirmed on the Supreme Court?
Yeah, right.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I hereby affirm that though I regard Um Cara as an honest and forthright citizen with a generally liberal* viewpoint, he and I do not share similar viewpoints on a number of issues:-
1. Tolerance toward intolerant religious freaks. He is a saint on this issue – I am an unrepentent zealot when it comes to people who confuse knowledge with irrational ‘faith’ and expect respect for, even obedience to, their nutjob rules.
2… actually, can’t put my finger on other major differences right now. In the immortal words of the half-baked Alaskan, ‘I’ll try to find some and bring them to ya’.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Um Cara, Read my posts… no where did I say a fetus was not alive. I am arguing that T. Mason’s use of the characteristics of life (or part of them) is not a basis for his/her argument because a fetus does not meet the requirements without being in a host.
T. Mason, I am not calling an embryo a parasite to make anything easier for me or to devalue it. I am calling it one because it is. You also said:
” The question has been when they receive their soul/become a “person”. THAT is a religious/moral/ethical question that must be answered by each individual.”
Gosh I don’t know one pro choice person who would argue with that…that is EXACTLY their point.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
” The question has been when they receive their soul/become a “person”. THAT is a religious/moral/ethical question that must be answered by each individual.”
YEA!! Now we all agree!! Abortion should NOT be a politial issue! The choice needs to remain with the ‘individual’, and not dictated by the government.
September 26th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Kuvas,
It definitely looks like you were arguing whether a fetus was alive (bringing up additional criteria, etc…). If it was just an academic exercise on your part to show that T. Mason had not proven the fact that a fetus was ‘alive’ due to the criteria she chose to show, whatever – definitely hair splitting time. Regardless, once that sperm and egg get down to business, the zygote is unquestionably alive. It ain’t sentient, it can’t feel pain, what with the lack of a nervous system and all – who knows if it has a soul or ever will for that matter, but it is alive. To argue otherwise is probably not the best path for pro choice people to go down as it leads to exactly these types of academic debates that don’t have much to do with the question of choice.
As far as the ‘parasite’ comment, you are for sure on shaky ground – no literature I have ever read refers to any animal’s developing offspring as a ‘parasite’. Obviously there are some characteristics you could point to which are similar, there are characteristics between a tree and a human that are similar as well. It doesn’t make a human a tree.
Plus it is just as icky to refer to a fetus as a parasite, as it is to refer to pro choice people as baby killers.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Um Cara, I take pity on you; I don’t want to make your brain hurt (really I don’t!).
My whole point is that T. Mason’s argument does not support his/her conclusion and was hopeful that in the future, any debates he/she participates in would be from a different direction. Sadly, I don’t think anything got through. I was being generous when I used the term fetus in my response as a zygote wouldn’t meet even the most basics of the characteristics of life:
Growth – the ability to increase in size without a change in shape where at least a fetus comes a bit closer. The characteristics were not designed to be used to make an abortion/anti-abortion argument but rather are used to determine if an organism may be considered alive = the conclusion of microbiologists that viruses are not alive. A species such as ours would have been looked at after birth: newborn has all of the characteristics and as for growth: looks like a small adult human. And nope never said parasites were dead either…wouldn’t be very good at being a parasite if they were. Any negative connotation of the word parasite is yours and T.Masons…women choose to get pregnant everyday knowing that the baby will be “taking” all of its nutrients from her whether she has any to spare or not. I think parasites can be wonderful things.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Um Cara, just saw your post (I guess writing at the same time). I don’t mean to be icky lol. And I didn’t really bring up additional criteria…T. Mason only posted PART of the characteristics and they are ALL requirements so I thought I would post the rest so she could use all of them to support her theory.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Kuvas,
Ack. I promised myself to start my weekend. And I’m going to, damn it.
But.
In this latest post, maybe I don’t understand what you are saying still. Not going to get into more arguments over when life begins. But, it really looks like you are saying:
A fetus is not alive. And a fetus is a parasite. Me therefore says a parasite is not alive? Huh?
Also, I say, a frog converts food into energy. My body converts food into energy. I am therefore am a frog.
Have a good weekend Kuvas, I have nothing against you, and probably agree with you on 95% of political hoo-ha. Have a good weekend T. Mason, I have nothing against you and probably agree with you on 5% of political hoo-ha.
And, I gots nothin to say on abortion!
Ribbet Ribbet
September 26th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Where is McCain’s head???? I’m becoming more afraid of Palin becoming one last hackin cough away from the Highest Office then the country slipping into a Depression. Where is Putin’s head? Probally thinking, EASY TARGET, EAST TARGET. I’m starting to have pity for McCain! I heard the brain does not Mulitask but actually does rapid shifting. The older one gets the more resistance the brain has to the rapid shifting process. That may explain the difficulty he had with judgement. He’s trying to run a National campaign, keep up on issues, coddle a V.P. choice, prepare for a debate. May be to much for him. We may need to start coddling the Republican Presidential Pick also! It may also be that the Republican’s need to start a 12 step program of Recovery. They could use step 2 at this time. “Came to believe a Power Greater than themselves could restore them to sanity” I’ll pray for that. Obama 08
September 26th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
I wonder if Sara would be able to identify that if a person was sitting in a wheel chair, if he could not stand up. Joe couldn’t with all of his 26 years in the senate.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
UmCara, Sigh, the list that T. Mason posted is used to determine whether an organism can be considered living. It was not designed to be used in measuring whether an embryo is viable or not because they could not meet the criteria. I was only pointing out to her that an embryo does not meet her own “support” of when life begins. That does not mean an embryo or zygote, or egg, or sperm, or parasite is dead. It is not a measure of life and death it is a measure of whether something is and can function as a living organism: prokaryotes or eukaryotes. I am also off this topic and I think I will take a page from your playbook and avoid responding to posts about abortion!
Have a great weekend.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
After watching the Sarah Palin interview with Katy Couric (Transcript and video on CBSNEWS.com), this woman is functionally illiterate when it comes to foreign policy. Her lack of any real understanding of world affairs was breathtaking. That McCain could even consider an individual with this total lack of basic knowledge is indicative of his “good judgement”.
I know many college kids that talk more intelligently and have a better grasp of the world that what Mrs. Palin exhibited in this interview. I encourage everyone to take a look at this interview. If you can still support this woman after watching this, perhaps you should have an EEG test to make sure you still have functioning brain waves. Even right wing loon Katherine Parker says ditch Palin. She is obviously in way over her head. God help us if McCain gets elected and we suffer through four years of this kind of “good judgement”. Obama 08.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Too bad McCain’s good buddy Charles Keating isn’t still alive. McCain might have appointed him as Treasury Secretary!!!! How about putting Fiorina as special grand inquisitor of grotesque executive compensation (Lord knows Fiorina should know!) And McCain could always let George W. (a.k.a. He who should not be named) become secretary of state. Perhaps Gonzalez could be tapped as special counsel to investigate corruption…:) …this comedy just goes on and on……Good weekend to all.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I’m sorry – I rarely resort to name calling but this woman is a complete and total idiot.
Dumber than dirt! Total embarrassment not only to her party but the entire country.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
[...] the McCain campaign wasn’t making Palin available to respond to the proceedings. And, after a less-than-boffo Katie Couric interview, and at a time when even conservatives are questioning McCain’s [...]
September 27th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
[...] the open of “Saturday Night Live” is that it’s not that far removed from the the Katie Couric interview that it was [...]
September 28th, 2008 at 9:41 pm