Here’s Your $700 Billion
It passed the House 265-171, 58 more votes than Monday’s bill garnered, the same day the Labor Department annouced the loss of 159,000 jobs in September, the biggest loss in five years.
The core of the plan remains little changed from its inception – the Treasury Department would have $700 billion at its disposal to purchase bad mortage-related securities that are weighing down the balance sheets of institutions that hold them. The flow of credit has slowed, in some cases drying up, threatening the ability of businesses to conduct routine operations or expand.
At the same time, lawmakers have dramatically changed the measure, insisting on greater congressional supervision over the $700 billion, taking measures to protect taxpayers, and insisting on steps to crack down on so-called “golden parachutes” that go to corporate executives whose companies fail.
Earlier in the week, the legislation was altered to expand the federal insurance program for individual bank deposits, and the Securities and Exchange Commission took steps to ease the impact of the questionable mortgage-backed securities on financial institutions.
Democrats who voted yea: 172; Republicans who voted yea: 91. This compares to theh 140 Democrats and 85 Republicans who were on board for the last go-round.
i’m in the ‘hold your nose caucus’ here. i don’t like it. In fact I fundamentally dissagree with it. But doing nothing is not an option. We’ll call this round two. How about this time some people go to jail if they ever manipulate the economic system for the sake of greed again.
I would call the something better than nothing argument plain stupid. Throwing pots and pans and toasters at problems doesn’t fix ‘em. Next time around we actullay monitor for unethical trade practices. Or we could just whip all these greedy filthy liars till they bleed. Whichever is clever.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I’m assuming John McCain voted for this package pork earmarks and all. Didn’t he say last week about earmarks on this bill that “this will not happen”. Gee John it took you a week to flip-flop on this one – you are getting slow – the John McCain I remember could flip-flop the same day.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Here is a link to a site with a history of U.S. bailouts, and their results:
http://www.propublica.org/special/government-bailouts/
Just for the curious folks out there, not trying to make a point one way or the other.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Yeah we brought the country down by allowing Bush to raid the treasury and give as much money as Bill Clinton made for this country and much more to his contributors. I don’t ever want to hear again any Republican claiming to be a patriot – they are all traitors and have loyalty to money money money and that is all. John McCain is every bit the traitor today he was when he turned on his fellow soldiers by giving away military secrets while in his country club prison in Vietnam getting the soft treatment you would expect the son of a general to get. No wonder he elected to stay there when offered to go home – he would have had to actually fight for this country. And then when he comes back to his new enemy the USA, he has 100% voting record against the Vets he betrayed. This sleazy leopard never changes his liver spots.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Jake wrote: I’m assuming John McCain voted for this package pork earmarks and all. Didn’t he say last week about earmarks on this bill that “this will not happen”. Gee John it took you a week to flip-flop on this one – you are getting slow – the John McCain I remember could flip-flop the same day
Jon Stewart did an excellent creative (partisan) editing job this flip-flop a couple of nights ago. It’s about 2 minutes into the video.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=186776&title=clusterf#@k-to-the-poor-house
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
EricG: “Or we could just whip all these greedy filthy liars till they bleed.”
Eric for President!
I hear waterboarding’s in vogue these days. Perhaps an all-expenses-paid vacation to the beautiful Guantanamo Bay area?
But I guess you have to be a foreign political terrorist to qualify for that.
It doesn’t count for domestic economic terrorists like the kind you find on Wall Street, or in Washington D.C., praising the hymns of Deregulation.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Part of the problem with this is that 99% of everybody isn’t qualified to form an opinion, and people don’t understand that a great many business are not cash businesses, and rely on credit while waiting for receivables to mature.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Poor small minded Vinnie Pee and his unoriginal, constantly repeated posts…
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Who are these traitorous conservatives who voted for this socialism? A pox on you…
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
It’s all garbage. I don’t know enough about economics but perhaps our economy needs to crash so this nonsense doesn’t happen again.
I don’t have any stocks and more debt than savings so a crashing economy would actually benefit me. But I don’t want people to suffer so I hope this junk succeeds.
This is an issue like 9/11…both parties are to blame for not seeing this coming.
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:15 pm
They lied to you then, they lie to you now, and the truth is that there are more lies to come.
I would have slipped a rider changing the National Anthem to “Cocaine Decisions” by Zappa around page 397, but that’s just a personal insistence on humor.
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I hope all the politicians that voted for this bail out end up homeless – this is a good example of how out of touch the politicians are with the American people. And when are the going to learn that by having political parties, it divides a nation? Politicians need to have a term limit set and I am for 8 years then out you go with no lifetime pension!
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:24 pm
“Who are these traitorous conservatives who voted for this socialism? A pox on you…”
Posted by FuRyUs
A pox indeed, but what would it do?
Smallpox, chickenpox– The jerks all have socialist, universal healthcare, paid for by us schmuck taxpayers who insist we don’t deserve the same thing!
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Flap, here’s my favorite quote about economists:
An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn’t happen today.
Laurence J. Peter (1919 – 1988)
Flap, even the economists don’t know what the economy will do, or how to fix it in the long run.
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Mark: Your beginning to make sense…I like the title.
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
oops You’re beginning to make sense….Better than the system we have now.
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Expect this bailout to be one of several coming down the pike. Virtually all the major economics professors believe that this is only the tip of the iceberg, and more is going to be needed.
Apparently socialism is evil if it benefits people. But if it is a corporation or bank, why it’s just fine. For all the furious right wingers, why just pull your money out of those socialists banks accepting government money. Put your money where your ideology is.
It’s the greed heads in the middle class who can be blamed for believing that you were prosperous as your wages were cut, your jobs shipped oversea’s, your pension being discontinued, as long as your credit lines grew. Supply side economic has been one of the greatest monumental economic failures in history. There was never any REAL prosperity. It was an elaborate shell game that fooled the people into believing they were prosperous, while the rich and business stole from them blind. And like all great pyramid schemes, those at the top got all the benefits.
What are the people left with? A country in economic ruin, families in ruins, education in ruins, healthcare in ruins, and infrastructure in ruins.
All you are seeing are predicted side effects of supply side economics. What is happening today was predicted years ago when we departed from Keynesian economics. The emperor has no clothes now, and nor did he ever. It was an elaborate illusion, with credit as its wand, that fooled the people long enough for them to be looted of everything. Heck even Old daddy Bush called it “voodoo economics”.
And now that we let them steal, we the people are going to pay dearly for the party. You can’t fuel a country forever on credit. Someone has to pay in the end, and you can guess which end of the people it is going to come out of.
October 3rd, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Jake,
I am pretty sure Obama voted for it to. Why don’t you open your eyes and realize that your god isn’t any better than any other politician.
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:19 pm
“Why don’t you open your eyes and realize that your god isn’t any better than any other politician”
I don’t believe in any supernatural man from outer space or Nirvana or heaven or wherever you crazies think your “God” lives – so I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Barney sounds like a retard who should be on the late shift mopping the floors at Walmart
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:21 pm
I thought congress was supposed to be the voice of America. But most of America did not want this bailout and congress voted for it anyways. So that means they voted against America. I think now we need to vote against them and get them out of office since apparently they don’t care what we think. And what’s with Mcain? No earmarks has been a mainstay in his campaign. Suddenly now he votes on a bill that is saturated with them, so what is he going to say now?
October 4th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Phillip D,
Now I’m worried because I agree with everything you said. The only solution to this government mess is to do away with the political party system and put term limits on all politicians.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
October 3rd 2008 at exactly 1:27pm will go down in histroy as the beginning of the end. As many on here know I have been a stauch defender of Goerge Bush. With the passing of this bail out and the selling out of the American voters to wall street. I am forced to change that. I now see that he will not be remembered as I had believed as a defender of American freedom, But as the man who pushed into legislation the bill that threw my America to the dogs.
WE have seen in just the past two weeks the control our government has on the media. Not republican nor democrat but the government as a whole. The media that at first called this bill ” The bail out wallstreet bill” then we all watched as ,due to the low oppinion of the bill they changed it to the ” bail out mainstreet bill.” The public started to believe this lie and acording to those in Government oppinion started to change.
Are we all such blind sheep to be led by the nose so easily?
These buisnesses will not recover no matter how much money we throw at them since the cause of the problem has not and will not be addressed.
This bill does nothing to fix anything as claimed mearly prolongs the degradation of our financial system so that those at the top may have time to bail out. This is how I see it.
We have managed to put a band aid on a gaping wound nothing more. Will we the adults of this generation see this downfall? Probably not due to this bill.
Did our government listen when the cries of the people said NO!!!!!!!? They did not.
They simply told us that we the people , the citizens of America are ignorant and cannot decide for ourselves the best corse of action for ( OUR ) country.
IF you feel as I do then let it be known here. Let this be your voice. If you do not and can show useing logic and reason why. I invite you to enlighten us. This is not about the presidential race and any post making it so will be deleated.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
my first post was reposted here from a Blog I created.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Joel,
That bailout was a travesty to our republic and democracy. I don’t know what to do to fix the economy, but there has to be something done to stop predatory lending. Including NOT allowing groups like ACORN to force the hand of the banks/government into giving people who will not or can not pay back their loans money for houses they can’t afford.
That worries me since Obama is tight with ACORN.
The dems and the repubs are to blame….but my eyes were opened when I saw the video of Barney Frank and several other dems in a meeting. The speakers were explaining to them that Fannie and Freddie wre in trouble and they brushed them off, quite angrily.
Who knows, it may turn out okay. I hope so.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Part of the problem with this is that 99% of everybody isn’t qualified to form an opinion, and people don’t understand that a great many business are not cash businesses, and rely on credit while waiting for receivables to mature.
Posted by Rocky the Liberal Rottweiler
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
I would suggest more stable buisness practices for this 99% you speak of.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
The problem that I see coming out of all this is not the economy, but the blatant disregard for the feelings and wishes of the people by congress. Is this not what we faught with England so long ago to be free of. Taxation without representation.
I truely fear the winds of revolution on the rise with the passing of this bill. I pray that I am wrong.
Yes funneling money to Acorn in this BIll is insane seeing that they are currnetly underinvestigation in 18 seperate counts of voter praud and have previously been caught several times registering non-existant people to vote. for example in washington DC out of over 1500 registrations by Acorn only 6 were valid.
October 4th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
gotta hate typo’s .
October 4th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
The republicans agreed to come up with 100 votes on the new proposal, but had to renegotiate down their number. On any distasteful legislation that must be addressed in a bi partisan fashion to avoid political amunition for one side over the other, it is always an agreed to process. This time, the republicans remained in a difficult position of not being able to control their own caucus. Well, at least we are in a better position to go forward. And, didn’t a certain senator sacrifice his lauded principles (and stature as a “maverick”) by voting for a pork ladden bill?
October 4th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Maybe if Bill Clinton would have taken out Osama Bin Laden when he had the chance, 9/11 would have never happened. If 9/11 never materialized, we most certainly wouldn’t be having this discussion.
From a clearly liberal newspaper (old but relevant):
http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm
Plenty of blame to go around folks. Partisans will always argue their base arguments and talking points, but at the end of the day, no one man, woman or sector of the government has unilateral control.
October 5th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Vnce warns:
Not doing anything would have led to further devaluation of our dollar (The Fed, under Bush has been devaluing our Dollar for quite some time – that’s why oil got so expensive)
The fact that we have actually taken action has led to the strengthening of the dollar (which has been underway for several months, as the severity of the crisis became known, and folks worldwide looked to the dollar for safety).
If this holds off a crises with credit default swaps, we’ll be OK. 700 Billion is a lot of money, but we shelled out a lot of money after the failing of the savings and loans (thanks McCain, for your part in that crisis, by the way) and yet bounced back.
October 5th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Here is what your leagacy has done for us.
FannieM ae Easesc redit To Aid MortgageL ending- New york rimes
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Page 1 of2
Septembe3r 0, 1999
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVENA , HOLMES
ln a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae
Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.
The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets — including the New York
metropolitan region — will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not
good enough to qualifu for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by
next spring.
Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton
Administr4fq4.!oexpandmortgageloansamonglowandmoderateincomepeopleandfel@s
t6- mainGffiLen&nenal gto;nflr in profits.
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more
loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough
to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates –
anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.
“Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990’s by reducing down payment
requirements,” said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae’s chairman and chief executive officer. “Yet there remain too many
borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying
significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.”
Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that l8 percent of the loans in
the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.
In moving. even tentativelv. into this new area of lendine. Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk. yhich may
not pose any difficulties during flush ec o troubld
iiTfeconomic do@overnment rescue sim
“From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,” said Peter
Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. “If they fail. the government will have to step up and ,
bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.”
Under Fannie Mae’s pilot program, consurners who qualiff can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage
point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 — a rate that currently averages
about 7 .76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point
premium is dropped.
http://query.nytimes.com/gsVfullpage.html?res:9C0DE7D8153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&91s2e5c:1&2s0p0.8..
FannieM ae Easesc redit To Aid MortgageL ending- New york rimes Page2o f2
Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it
purchasesl oans that banks make on what is called the secondarym arket. By expandingt he type of loans that it will buy,
Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellarc redit ratings.
Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualifi, for a
mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home
(owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.
Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990’s. The number of
mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 57.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard
University’s Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got
mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.
In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent.
Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part because
blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings.
In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001,50 percent of Fannie Mae’s
and Freddie Mac’s portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the
loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.
The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination in the
automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness of credit
applicants.
A-
October 5th, 2008 at 11:10 pm