How Sarah Palin Navigated The Debate
October 3rd, 2008, 7:51 PM EDT
Search
- Alan on...
-
Login with Facebook:
Friends on this siteTo see your friends on this site, you must be logged in with Facebook:
{5/169 comments}-
How Sarah Palin Navigated The Debate
By Gayle 07/10/2008 at 7:28 pmLOL Um Cara!!! Obi One Kanobe, good one.
-
How Sarah Palin Navigated The Debate
By Um Cara 07/10/2008 at 7:06 pmYo Red:
Please answer me this: If your way of thinking was soooo dynamic and soooo what this country needs, then please explain why Obama (and every other Dem running for any office in the past half-century) runs as a Centrist?
Because almost everyone thinks they are centrist.
Now, Red, answer me this:
Why is Obama so far ahead in the polls?
Oh, and…
Hoo-Rah
Semper Fi
E pluribus unum
Obi One Kanobe -
How Sarah Palin Navigated The Debate
By Red States rule! 07/10/2008 at 6:59 pmGo Drill!
As you Liberals you have pathetically displayed on this “Blog”, you have once again displayed your inability to defend yourselves.If you cannot defend yourself, how can you be expected to defend others if you’re put in charge?
No thanks! History has proven that you cower in the face of aggression, and always will…
Please answer me this: If your way of thinking was soooo dynamic and soooo what this country needs, then please explain why Obama (and every other Dem running for any office in the past half-century) runs as a Centrist? And please don’t respond back with “they’re trying to connect with the undecided voters….
What you should do, if you have a moral bone in your body, is to be honest about who you are when you run for office.
You won’t, of course, because you know that Middle America and the South will reject anything that even smells like Liberalism. You know this as fact, don’t deny it.
The stone-cold truth is that 40%+ of Americans identify themselves as Conservative, while ONLY 20%+ identify themselves as Liberals. The rest are undecideds and members of independent parties.
You are, and will continue to be, woefully weak and outnumbered.
Hoo-Rah and Semper Fi!!
-
How Sarah Palin Navigated The Debate
By Sarah 07/10/2008 at 5:03 pmDrill: “After reading through a few of these posts, most of the conservatives have been respectful. It is you and your Nazi friends who have been the name callers and flame throwers”
Oh. You mean respectful like your last little line? I think that sums your attitude up nicely.
“Who cares where she got it or what it’s in? You are the one who has mentioned it over and over. It seems she has answered every question you have asked her.”
Uh, not really. She took most of her initial posts as an opportunity to trash talk and talk about “intelligence,” as in “liberals don’t have any” and “I’d like an intelligent conversation.” She placed quite a premium on smarts, so it roused my curiosity to ask what it was in. Strange that you and she are so defensive of her PhD.
And, if I had to offer an explanation as to why Obama/Biden aren’t running away with this election, I guess you’d have to take a look at the slim margins that have been happening for the past 8 years.
The country is polarized. And today’s Republican Party is filled with a lot of people who can’t, or don’t want to, think for themselves. Because if they do, they’re ostracized– like Noonan, Dole, and Goldwater were, because they weren’t Neocon enough.
My mother and father look askance at evangelists, see the necessity of keeping Roe v. Wade, are concerned about the environment, and think gun restrictions need to make access harder– but they’ll vote Republican because they just “always have.”
I daresay there are “always have” voters in the Democratic Party, but the voodoo the GOP has used to lure many across — pretending to be Christian, in favor of lower taxes, free enterprise, etc. — and the fact baby-boomers are getting older, crabbier, and more easily frightened, is beginning to wear off, it appears.
I hope so. I’m bored with the Age of Rage. It accomplishes very little.
-
How Sarah Palin Navigated The Debate
By Drill Baby Drill 07/10/2008 at 4:49 pmSarah,
They like divisiveness, exaggeration, and communication akin to that of a WWF match.
Seems to me that would be you. After reading through a few of these posts, most of the conservatives have been respectful. It is you and your Nazi friends who have been the name callers and flame throwers…but what the h*&*, do you know about civil obedience anyway?
I hope Melissa tells us what her PhD is in, and where she got it. I’d be interested to know…
Who cares where she got it or what it’s in? You are the one who has mentioned it over and over. It seems she has answered every question you have asked her.I would like to know where B. Hussein Obama got his birth certificate… The same forgers who worked for Dan Rather, or perhaps the pederast who peddled out the Chinese Gymnastic Team?
They get us going, but they don’t get very far. Kind of like Republicans and conservatives in general today.
Oh, I see. Considering all of the “dirt” you have on McCain and Palin why aren’t Barry and his cronies running away with this election?
Don’t bother with your lame answers, I know your going to try and subject your “intellectual superiority” on me, so I really have more important things to do, like clean my gun.
Powered by Sociable! -
Chat Stream
Only registered user allowed
the VP debate was stunning. Palin did a decent job faking about 20% of the questions and didn’t even bother answering the other 80%.
i couldn’t help thinking of the end of the movie Billy Madison, when the debate moderator says to Adam Sandler, “Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
If all else fails, DO SOMETHING REALLY CUTE!…yeah, that’s a good one. Like an Ashlee Simpson stunt when she screwed up with her lip-syncing…
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Letterman’s Top 10 things overheard at Palin Debate Camp:-
10. “Let’s practice your bewildered silence.”
9. “Can you try saying ‘yes’ instead of ‘you betcha’?”
8. “Hey, I can see Mexico from here!”
7. “Maybe we’ll get lucky and there won’t be any questions about Iraq, taxes or healthcare.”
6. “We’re screwed!”
5. “Can I just use that lipstick-pit bull thing again?”
4. “We have to wrap it up for the day — McCain eats dinner at 4:30.”
3. “Can we get Congress to bail us out of this debate?”
2. “John Edwards wants to know if you’d like some private tutoring in his van.”
1. “Any way we can just get Tina Fey to do it?”
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Doggone it, you betcha!
Palin did ultimately set her own groundrules when it came to that debate and that included not answering 80% of the questions.
Oh and I can smell Palin’s inexperience from here…(Virginia)!
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:34 pm
And Reggie, her inexperience is a FOUL stench. Maybe it’s the dead wolf she shot on the way to the debate….hmmm.
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Reggie -
I can also smell her inexperience from my living room, it is just pure shame. Ok so now let’s tell a heartwarming hockey mom story!
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Oh and by the way I heard Obama will be in Virginia on october 3rd. Tomorrow! I live in NC and will be going there to see him.
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:40 pm
That debate flow chart is pretty much how she plans out her speeches really, entirely.
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:46 pm
OMG! Your such a good debater! No not even close a master debater!
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Alan,
All Sarah Palin has done is lower the bar for women across the country. For a comparison to be done between Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton is absurd. We’re talking apples and oranges. I am referring to comments made by Dick Morris. That man is so consumed with hatred for the Clintons. Sour grapes is all I can say.
By the way Alan, I despised the way he spoke with you after the debate. He doesn’t deserve to be engaged at any level. His overall low self-esteem and unhappiness with life is so apparent. Cut the guy loose. Also, you were a class act in the way you handled him.
As always, I’m glad to hear your views on all of the pertinent issues going on in our world.
Keep it up!
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Yes, tell Dick Morris that he needs to see one of his many paid “lady friends” that he pays for….shall we say..a little game of footsy. Morris would sell his Mother if he could and it could advantage him in some way. He is a sad, unhappy man who should just stick with his call girls. After all, they are the only friends he has, even it he pays for them.
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Ann Colter is the rudest most unattractive person Fox loves to put on the air. How you, Alan, can stand to be on the same set with her, much less Hannity, is beyond me. We all went to school with people like these two…and have vivid memories of their snotty actions toward those not in their cliques. Cannot imagine climbing into bed with either of these two…poor spouses or whatever they hang out with.
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Ann Coulter really should refrain wearing the same black cocktail mini-dress she got layed and loaded in the night before to interviews. No one wants to see Coulter’s hoo hoo at 10:00 am in the morning. Can someone not get the tart a robe?
Personally, I filed Ms. Coulter’s name under self promoting skank in my file cabinet. :)
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:24 pm
She’s a hottie!
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Biden Debate Flow chart – Question -> fabricate with convicition and hope nobody knows the truth.
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
You people crack conservatives up! Your seething hatred for Sarah is funny. We conservatives know that she scares liberals to death.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:18 pm
BARACK HUSSIEN OBAMA, WOW, AMERICA WAKE UP.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:18 pm
biden looked like an old croanie and it was obvious he is full of bs. what a hag, but that is the change you dumbass liberals can believe in.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:20 pm
“uhhh….uhhhh…..uhhhhh…uhhhh” Alan is sounding more and more like his obama love interest more and more.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
more more more…heh
I wonder how long it took this liberal idiot to make this “flow chart”
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Sarah Palin: I don’t get it. I know Conservatives are pretty desperate but PPLLLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEEEEE give me a break…a nice lady but Vice-president material? What kind of crack are you conservatives smoking?
“You betcha,(mention Reagan)hockey moms, joe six pack(mention Reagan again)………….how cute, Sarah, how cute…..
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 pm
HUSSIEN OBAMA : I DON`T GET IT .YOU DEMS. MAY NOT BE SMOKING CRACK , BUT YOUR HEADS ARE SURE UP YOUR CRACK.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 pm
I doubt the crack we’re smoking is as bad as the crap you libs are smoking, trying to pass Obama off as a guy with experience. Palin is MORE qualified to be president than Obama, not to mention VP.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 pm
WHAT?
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I personally just about vomited during the end of her “flow chart” by her dumb comment: “well, a big shout out to the 3rd grade class of Wasilla Elementary” – I swear I was waiting for her to start waving and screaming “hi mom – I’m on TV – I’m running for VP”.
Yes, a completely cute comment in the right setting – but this was not the right setting.
October 4th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Can anyone “square” this to the FOXNEWS DEBATE POLL??
DRUDGE REPORT POLL:
12:14 PM – OCT 3 2008
{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?…
BIDEN 28% 154,668
PALIN 70% 382,694
NEITHER 2% 10,203
Total Votes: 547,565
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/polls_results/20081003_palin_biden_debate.htm
October 4th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Barbara B-
I would like to know how Palin has “lowered the bar for women across the country”? Can you elaborate more?
Danielle-
You seem to have alot of problems with nausea, you should see a doctor.
October 4th, 2008 at 1:48 am
Palin has lowered the bar because she was unprofessional and smug. You meet a respected Senator for the first time and the first thing you can think to say is “Can I call ya Joe?” Can you just see her meeting Queen Elizabeth and asking “can I call you Queenie?” Then continues with the “you betchas” and “doggone its” all that was missing was a straw hat and corn cob pipe. She only proved she can memorize alot of talking points, she didn’t even understand anything she said. She’s lucky there wasn’t any follow up questions or she would have been lost. Gwen Ifill should have called her on her statement about not answering the questions the way the moderator wanted her to. Those were the rules that she agreed to before the debate, if she can’t follow those rules how is she going to uphold the rules of our country? Sen. Biden was more professional, concise, and knew exactly what he was talking about, he elaborated on the topics and didn’t keep repeating talking points. He, like Sen. Obama took the high road, cordial, respectful and restrained. Restraint IS the better part of valor.
October 4th, 2008 at 3:21 am
OH, let me add, the winking and the blowing a kiss, this was a professional persona she was putting forth to the country? Is that how she’s going to portray herself to the world? She wants to claim sexism when she’s “attacked” by the press, and then plays the “blonde bombshell” on stage, when she’s crying for respect. Earn it.
October 4th, 2008 at 3:27 am
AMERICAN JOE:
WTF DOES BARACK’S NAME HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIS CAPABILITY TO LEAD US INTO THE RIGHT DIRECTION? YOU IGNORANT, BIGOTED PEACE OF $HIT.
October 4th, 2008 at 4:42 am
Palin did a better job than expected at the debate, but still no substance, sorry. Since the McCain camp doesn’t have much to bring to the table, they’re probably just going to devote the rest of their time smearing Obama until election day. Let’s see how many people actually fall for it.
October 4th, 2008 at 4:47 am
Gov. Palin with that folksie crap is the same as G.W and his phony Texas drawl. Both – all hat and no cattle! I hope that 51% will not be fooled again and waste their vote on a phony.
October 4th, 2008 at 4:53 am
So I wonder what obama’s flow chart look like?
Did I mention change yet -> no -> mention change
|
v
yes
|
v
do it again
This election is a joke. People are enamored by Obama simply because they think hes “cool”. He hasn’t accomplished much of anything, and YES… being a community organizer means infinity less than serving in our armed forces OR even being a governor.
October 4th, 2008 at 5:27 am
Faith-
What you call smug I call confidence & self assurance. I don’t think this was the first thing she could think of, instead I think this was deliberate.
Biden was professional in elaborating on the many lies he told. How many was it? 14? 15? And yes he did look restrained.
Sorry you get offended over winks & kisses, but I have never heard any criticism over Obamas winking. Or anything for that matter. As far as sexism there’s no denying it exist in the media. You would have to be living under a rock to not see it or be blinded by the faith you put in your candidate.
Respect is something we should simply just give each other.
October 4th, 2008 at 5:34 am
She has no confidence in herself, the republican party has no confidence in her or they wouldn’t have kept her sequestered all this time, for fear of what she might say, that is why she was smug, she thought she pulled one off by having information drummed into her head, and she was able to remember it. If that was deliberate, just proves my point about not being professional no matter how you look at it. Professionalism is of the utmost importance when you’re trying to get the vote of the American people and have them take you seriously. You don’t do that by winking and blowing kisses.I never said Sen. Biden didn’t stretch the truth a bit, but let’s face it, Gov. Palin stretched the truth quite a bit herself and had a few gaffes, All facts are important not all facts are equally important. Gov. Bidens’ restraint was remarkable, he could have eaten her for breakfast, but he did the right thing and kept the focus on Sen. McCain. Had he gone after her he probably would have been accused of sexism. Respect isn’t something you just throw around especially to someone you don’t know, we earn our respect, being civil to one another, I beleive, is the more appropriate action.
October 4th, 2008 at 7:24 am
I don’t see how any democrat can even mention her asking to call him “joe”, which he obviously didn’t mind, since Obama called Senator McCain John without asking.
Why don’t you question Obama’s winking? didn’t he call a female reporter sweetie? or Dear?
October 4th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Wasn’t it just a few weeks ago libs were accusing her of wanting to go to war with Russia? Seems like they were taking her serious then. Why not now? Dems have a convenient set of values, what is good one day is taboo the next.
Respect is something we should give to all people until they prove themselves unworthy of it. You can be civil to a person but be very disrepectful at the same time.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:08 am
Was Sarah the right choice for foreign policy no, but guess what she was not selected for her foreign policy experience she was selected for her energy independence experience. Now was Obama selected for his foreign policy no, Biden was. You Dems are complaining about our #2 but examine your #1. His own record indicates he has stood for absolutely nothing. What drives this man….PUBLIC PERCEPTION. He tells you WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR! I know you Dems are extremely intelligent people, ask yourself one question….How can 5% pay for the billions he and Biden are planning on spending? It is IMPOSSIBLE!!! He will raise your taxes, I know, I know he promised he wouldn’t…. he promised he would fund the troops and ….. renigged,he said he didn’t feel it necessary to where the flag pin and….he renigged, he talked about campaign financing… he renigged, he said he would meet with these dictators without preconditions and… now says he never said it (WTH), he said he could not denounce his pastor and….and yep you guessed it he renigged again. This man will say or do whatever the polls dictate. Another question for you Dems, if we found out that McCain was the Grand Pubbha of the KKK would that effect how you felt about the man…. sure would effect my opionion, hell he wouldn’t have made it to this point in the election process. My point is this look at Obama’s past relationships and who he ran around with, who he worked with,who and what he listened to while in the pews of his church(my preacher has NEVER said the things his preacher has said) if it is not concerning to you people then America has HUGE problems, my parents use to always say to me when I was a young boy you will be known by the people you run with.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Great post Chris.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:37 am
You liberals will sink to any level, but of course, I guess that’s easy when you have no morals anyway, or what little morals you have can be easily adjusted to fit any situation. You are such hypocrits!!! Why do you constantly belittle McCain/Palin but you give a pass to every gaffe or lie your group tells. I mean, c’mon, telling Katie Couric that FDR went on television to soothe the nation during the depression? If your going to fabricate something, at least get your history right!
This woman, as well as any educated American, who has the ability to research, has all of you scared to death!!! Ann Coulter had a great title for her last book “If Liberals Had Any Brains, They Would Be Republicans!” You can’t relate to this woman, because you all sit on your high ivory towers, trying to pretend you “care” about the “little” person, all the while playing God with your power and money. This woman is a true “American woman” who faces the struggles that most every American woman faces. She is not a “phony” liberal. She has no pretense and she is honest. She may not tell people what they “want to hear” but she is honest, and that is what people need to hear, even if it hurts!!! Didn’t your Mom ever tell you that sometimes the truth hurts? Of course, I guess I am speaking to the same bunch of American Idol crowd whiners who think they should have everything just because they want it, not because they should have to work for it. There is a saying, “There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs.” It is a philosophy that many hard working Americans belive in and live by, but the problem in this country is that so many think that everything should be a guaranteed “right”. Some things have to be earned!!!!! If you don’t have it, get up off your E#*# and work fot it. Those of us that do, deserve it, and while we don’t mind helping others who need help (by the way, it is a proven fact that middle America Republicans, who make way less money than limo liberals, give far more percentage in charity), but we don’t want to give it to people that think they deserve it, just because….Being an American is a great privilege, not a right, and one day maybe you libs. will wake up and realize that!!!
Oh, and by the way, I have nothing peronal against Joe Biden. I would never attack him or his children, the way you all have GOV. Sarah Palin. I feel for him and respect what he has been through with his family, and that he has raised his children. His son serves his country in the national guard. I respect and honor him for that. I just strongly disagree with his political views and here is one reason why…I know it won’t matter to you liberals, b/c you don’t know how to interpret the truth, but here’s a try anyway…
Joe Biden’s 14 lies from the debate:
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
Oh, and here’s some more info about exit polls for all you cry-baby whiners…(ooops, I mean liberals)…
It’s actually widely-known that the exit polls announced that in 2004 Kerry had won by a rather large margin.
Here is a table of those errors:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm
Here is also an AP article discussing the worries concerning the upcoming presidential elections.
Exit polls offer some concerns for networks
By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer Fri Oct 3, 6:09 PM ET
NEW YORK – Barack Obama’s tendency through the Democratic primaries to perform better in exit polls than he actually does at the ballot box has some media organizations nervous heading into Election Night.
ADVERTISEMENT
Television networks want to avoid having their performance become an issue for the third straight presidential election. Their political experts hope that experience gained during the primaries will help things run smoothly Nov. 4.
ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Fox News Channel and The Associated Press pool resources to conduct exit polls in select precincts, hoping to glean information about why people vote the way they do and to help predict a winner or loser. A combination of actual vote counts and exit polls is generally used to “call” a state for one candidate or another.
Exit polls frequently overstated Obama’s vote during the primaries by as much as 3 percentage points.
“We’re concerned about it, but not, `Oh, my god, the exit polls are going to be wrong,’” said NBC News analyst Chuck Todd. “We’re aware it’s an issue and we’re doing everything we can to correct it during our survey work.”
Well-educated and young voters are more likely to agree to fill out an exit-poll survey, and both these groups have tended to favor Obama, the experts said.
Enthusiastic voters are also more likely to seek out pollsters, or at least not go out of their way to avoid them. That was true about Obama during the primaries, just as it was for Republican Pat Buchanan during the 1992 New Hampshire primary, said Kathleen Frankovic, CBS News director of surveys.
It was the exit polls’ overstatement of John Kerry’s support in 2004 that caused problems for the networks, particularly when the first wave of results were leaked on the Web. That led to a “quarantine room” reform that will be in place this year; the people with access to poll results are locked away until at least 5 p.m. EST, giving them time to check for any problems and keeping the early numbers from conveying false information and possibly affecting turnout.
The problems were more serious in 2000, when networks prematurely “called” Florida, and thus the election, for George Bush. It led to a congressional investigation into their practices.
For the Obama-McCain contest, there’s concern about whether some voters will say they voted for Obama but, for racial reasons, actually didn’t.
Frankovic said this was a real issue for pollsters years ago, but studies show it has virtually gone away. The false reporting was more pronounced when voters were actually interviewed by pollsters, but the current exit poll is a paper survey that voters fill out in private. It was only in the Northeast that Todd said he saw false reporting problems during the primaries.
A presidential election with a black man leading the ticket is uncharted territory for the United States, however.
In general, Republicans tend to be less enthusiastic than Democrats about taking exit polls. An unknown this season will be whether resentment toward the media fomented by John McCain’s campaign will make his supporters even less willing to “help” them by taking a survey.
The smallest of factors can play a role in the makeup of a poll; some older voters, for instance, are uncomfortable dealing with young pollsters, and are turned off if they’re standing near partisan demonstrators. News organizations this week sued the state of Minnesota to block a state law that would keep pollsters more than 100 feet from a polling place.
Simply knowing all of this will help the news organizations be ready, the experts said.
“I wouldn’t overstate the concerns,” said Dan Merkle, decision-desk director for ABC News. “They are the kinds of things we’ve seen before with different elections and different candidates.”
Kathleen Carroll, executive editor of The Associated Press, said she’s aware of the issues but isn’t worried about the Election Night performance. In states where a race is close, the AP relies on vote counts to pick a winner, she said.
“The AP has never run out and called a close race based on exit polls,” Carroll said. Where they can be used to make a call is when the exit polls confirm pre-election polls in contests that are lopsided, she said.
Todd said there’s been some notable successes with the exit polls this year. For instance, they precisely forecast Hillary Rodham Clinton’s surprise win in the New Hampshire primary, something pre-election polling did not, he said.
People focus heavily on the exit polls’ forecast of winners and losers and tend to overlook the greater value, in providing insights on what a population is thinking politically, he said.
“Anybody who just goes off exit polls is a fool,” he said. “It is a part of the process, but it is not the process.”
(This version CORRECTS quote and CLARIFIES that exit polls sometimes used to call lopsided races. Moving on general news, entertainment and financial services.)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_ … exit_polls
October 4th, 2008 at 9:01 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNfRb87dtY4
October 4th, 2008 at 9:03 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMYty1PgHEg
October 4th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Conservative back slapping.
If Palin/McCain are so great, why are they sliding in the polls? Is it Palin’s ignorance or McCain’s erratic behavior?
Who cares. They’re losing and they don’t have much opportunity to get ahead. No matter how much you cons bray like the asses you are, your idiot candidates are LOSING…
you betcha doggone it
October 4th, 2008 at 9:08 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3kvW0cGZvQ
October 4th, 2008 at 9:11 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g5P9_e43sE
October 4th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Hey, Furyus,
Us? Bray? Aren’t you guys the donkeys? Oh and btw? You have the first African-American candidate who is the self-proclaimed Messiah, all of the drive-by media, except Fox News, (which you constantly whine about) and your candidate is only up by less than 10 points? WTH?
October surprise, anyone?
October 4th, 2008 at 9:26 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUcmbeSI4EQ
October 4th, 2008 at 9:39 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4
October 4th, 2008 at 9:39 am
self-proclaimed Messiah?
Oh you’re a smart one aren’t you Melissa?
McCain keeps falling in the polls. Obama will win. No matter how many more lies you sheep try to spread…
October 4th, 2008 at 9:40 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
October 4th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Sarah Palin is a loser PERIOD! How do we know that? She exhibits all the signs: arrogant, sarcastic, condesending, socially inappropriate. She nominates unqualified fiends to high positions. Is under ethics investigation in Alaska. Nuff said!
October 4th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Hey Furyus,
Why don’t you take a minute to view some of these clips that Chris is posting? How can you deny the truth? I guess you will say we manufactured these as well.
October 4th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Furyus
If the rep ticket is down in the polls its only because of an uninformed electorate such as yourself. An electorate that chooses to believe whatever Nobama tells you to believe. Sort of herd mentality at its worst.
And honestly, furyus, once you have stooped to name calling you’re lost the argument.
October 4th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Oh well, Melissa stated the “drive by media.” Well, dog gone it we all know who says that! The blustery BS Rush Limbaugh. Shucks maybe he needs to get back to his pill bottles! Wink, wink.
October 4th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Oh, and by the way Furyus, I guess I am fairly smart, I do have a phd. :)
October 4th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Oooh, Susan, I guess I hit nerve…If your a liberal, how do you know what Rush says? Somebody must be a ditto head. The truth hurts doesn’t it…
October 4th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Bernie: Are you implying that most of the American people are stupid? OR, maybe they just don’t read anything. Seems to be a lot of that going around lately.Tell me why you think they are uniformed?? And what would they find out if they were better informed? Are you implying that that the American people are as stupid as a herd of sheep. You seem to be the one engaged in name calling!
October 4th, 2008 at 9:57 am
well golly, shucks, hockey mom, doggone it.
“If the rep ticket is down in the polls its only because of an uninformed electorate such as yourself. An electorate that chooses to believe whatever Nobama tells you to believe. Sort of herd mentality at its worst.”
So what you’re saying is that McCain is behind because people aren’t informed. McCain has no plans to change anything. He’s losing. And if people were “more informed”, they would know half the words out of McCain’s mouth are lies. Not to mention the Winker…
October 4th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Susan,
Sarah is a LOSER huh? … LOL … where does that leave the rest of us. Certainly she is far more successful in her chosen field than many. She enjoys a 80% favorable rating in AK. Susan, name one governor who has a more favorable rating than Sarah.
Ohhh yes she has such a high rating because she puts “big oil” money in the pockets of AK residents so they have to like her. Well the governor before her could have done the same thing. Why didn’t he? Why didn’t the one before him?
Sarah Palin a loser? That is a very sad argument, Susan, one you can’t win. Sarah has already done more for her state and country than you and I are apt to ever do combined.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:00 am
I listen to to the bag of wind to get my dose of humor for the week. I think of him as the Howard Stern of the right.His job is amuse and ignite the masses.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Actually Bernie Palin’s Alaska approval rating is in the 60s now because of her moronic “answers” to the simplest questions.
Hi Susan! Nice to see another sane person here. ;)
October 4th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Bernie: She is a loser for the above stated reasons. You are certainly entitled to you beliefs and I am entitled to mine. My view is internal, your view is external. As I stated she is demeaning, sarcastic,and condescending. We are MORE than just what we accomplish in life.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Bernie,
I agree with you wholeheartdly about Gov. Palin. Unfortunately, she will never get a fair shake in the liberal media. :(
It does no good to post factual intelligence, they don’t know how to respond to it. :(
October 4th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Susan,
He amuses some and ignites the others, so I guess he is doing his job. :)
October 4th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Unfortunately, she will never get a fair shake in the liberal media.
Are you serious? Maybe if McCain didn’t hide her from interviews. Why do you cons think that a VP candidate doesn’t need to answer questions? Palin is not ready and McCain knows it. That makes McCain look even worse than his erratic confusing behavior since stating, “The fundamentals of the economy are strong”. Palin had a shot to help in the debate, but she acted like she was on a game show…
October 4th, 2008 at 10:16 am
On MSNBC today from 3-5, the VP debate is being replayed with a fact finder on the claims of each candidate. I wonder how many times Palin lies? When her mouth is open…
October 4th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Furyus,
No chance for any comment on the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac you tube clips? I guess it’s hard to disagree with the truth….Don’t get me wrong, there is plenty of blame to go around about this financial mess…Republicans, too..but it just amazes me how Barney Frank and Chris Dodd stand there and act like their condescending selves, when they know what really happened, and yet they want to insunuate McCain had something to do with this, when he DID call it to everyone’s attention in 2005. As I’ve said repeatedly, THE TRUTH HURTS!!!! They would at least gain some respect for admitting they made a mistake, as humans do, and then try to correct it and move on. However; I guess I forgot, you guys don’t really care about respect, you just care about POWER. :(
October 4th, 2008 at 10:23 am
On MSNBC, well as I stated before…she will never get a fair shake in the LIBERAL MEDIA!!!!
October 4th, 2008 at 10:25 am
To all of you liberals, I’m just curious, what does it feel like to live your life with no set of morals, scruples, or belief in a higher power? In must be very sad and lonely…
October 4th, 2008 at 10:26 am
“I guess I forgot, you guys don’t really care about respect, you just care about POWER”
I thought that was the Bush Administration. Wasn’t it Rick Davis who was getting 15,000 a month for nothing from Freddie Mac up until August? Does that truth hurt? Or does that not count because he works for McCain?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:28 am
She exhibits all the signs: arrogant, sarcastic, condesending, socially inappropriate.
You aren’t saying that Obama and Biden are none of these are you?
Arrogant: We are the change we’ve been waiting for, creating your own Presidential seal and using it during a press conference, erasing the American flag from your plane and placing your own emblem there
Sarcastic: paying higher taxes IS the patriotic thing to do, right? Good grief
Condescending: Speaking from a Greek Temple prop, claiming that those who are either religious OR own guns, (God forbid) are simply bitter.
Socially Inappropriate: Attending a church for over 20 years, claiming the pastor as your friend then claiming he isn’t. befriending a known domestic terrorist who hates America and wishes he would have done more damage working with him on a board living next door to him launching your first campaign at his house then claiming you aren’t really friends.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:29 am
How do cons live their lives always looking down and forcing their religious beliefs on others?
How do you think anyone who questions McCain is the “liberal media”? Sounds pretty paranoid to me…
October 4th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Oh, and one more thing…McCain saying “the fundamentals of the American economy are strong” ,in which he was referring to the heart and soul of the American worker, but I agree it sounded horrible…
Is that worse than Biden saying that FDR went on televison during the depression to calm people’s fears? (Just in case, you don’t know…FDR wasn’t president then, and people didn’t have tvs..)
Response?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:30 am
What about Palin’s belief in Creationism? Or HER preacher protecting her from witchcraft? Go ahead and bring up Wright again. It didn’t work this time and there is video of Palin’s nutty preacher on stage with her.
Hypocrites.
Who’s ahead in the polls again?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Furyus,
I don’t see Christians telling Atheists they have to believe or they will lose their freedom to express themselves.
I do see nativity scenes being banned, the 10 commandments taken down, prayer suppressed at sporting events and graduations and during the first moments at school, the idea that In God We Trust needs to be taken off our currency, etc.
Who is forcing their beliefs on whom?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Thanks T. Mason… It’s nice to have a friend here.. :)
Furyus, if you had read my post, you would see that I did say there was plenty of blame to go around, including Republicans…
I’m not a con, I live by my religions beliefs, I just find it sad that there are so many who don’t.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:34 am
and still no comment about the Fannie Mae, Frank/Dodd fiasco…who is a con?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Furyus,
You obviously dont understand that the man on the stage with Palin was a missionary. Missionaries from other countries Do deal with a belief in witchcraft.
I didn’t hear him damning America or making racially devisive statements.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:36 am
or about the Biden comment to Katie Couric?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:37 am
It’s called Freedom of Religion. That is why Jesus doesn’t need to be everywhere.
And yes this week proved how horrible Congress is. Both sides. But we’ve seen how horrible the Repubs have been. The Democrats are weak, but they don’t seem hell bent on running the country into the ground like the Repubs do.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Oh great now we get Vinnie Pee’s cut n paste posts of someone who agrees with him. What a surprise…
October 4th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Freedom OF religion. Not Freedom FROM religion.
Furyus, the democrats IGNORED signs that fannie and freddie were collapsing just like the other side. There is video where a group of dems on Barney Franks committee are listening to comments about how fannie and freddie were tanking over 2 years ago and they denied it.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Well said, T. Mason…
Furyus, once again, why do have to insult VNCE?
Still no comment, run and duck coward, Barnie Frank, Chris Dodd….Furyus…notice a pattern here?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:47 am
More than half of the whopping $426.9 million Barack Obama has raised has come from small donors whose names the Obama campaign won’t disclose, ad questions have arisen about millions more in foreign donations the Obama campaign has received that apparently have not been vetted as legitimate.
Federal law does not require the campaigns to identify donors who give less than $200 during the election cycle. However, it does require that campaigns calculate running totals for each donor and report them once they go beyond the $200 mark.
Surprisingly, the great majority of Obama donors never break the $200 threshold.
“Contributions that come under $200 aggregated per person are not listed,” said Bob Biersack, a spokesman for the FEC. “They don’t appear anywhere, so there’s no way of knowing who they are.”
The FEC breakdown of the Obama campaign has identified a staggering $222.7 million as coming from contributions of $200 or less. Only $39.6 million of that amount comes from donors the Obama campaign has identified. It is the largest pool of unidentified money that has ever flooded into the U.S. election system.
In a letter dated June 25, 2008, the FEC asked the Obama campaign to verify a series of $25 donations from a contributor identified as “Will, Good” from Austin, Texas.
Mr. Good Will listed his employer as “Loving” and his profession as “You.”
A Newsmax analysis of the 1.4 million individual contributions in the latest master file for the Obama campaign discovered 1,000 separate entries for Mr. Good Will, most of them for $25, totaling $17,375.
October 4th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Ten reasons to vote for Obama –
1. You are a Marxist who believes that America should only have two classes. The ruling class and the workers. It doesn’t matter that they are already paying 95% of all taxes collected by the IRS. They need to pay more and just forego creating new jobs.
2. You don’t care if he is natural born or not, and that he may not even be an American citizen because he refused to take the oath and give up his citizenships to two other countries when he turned 18.
3. You find that endorsements from the Amercian Socialist and Communist parties as well as endorsements from Hamas, Hezbollah, Kadafi, Chavez and Iran are positive.
4. You don’t care that his involvement in Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac began in 1995 when he worked for and trained ACORN workers to file law suits against bankers who refused to give mortgage loans to drug addicts, illegals and people who couldn’t afford them.
5. You don’t think his close relationships to convicted felons, unrepentant terrorists, radical black theologians that hate both America and White people matters.
6. You think it is perfectly fine, to divert a million dollars of his campaign funds to ACORN so they can register dead people, duplicate people, illegals and college students and encourage them to vote early and vote often.
7. You want our defense allocations to go to re-education camps which are currently named Camp Obama instead of protecting us from terrorist. Oh I forgot he is friends with all the terrorists.
8. You feel that the first amendment only applies to people who agree with Obama. All others will have law suits filed against them.
9. That allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire isn’t a tax increase and giving 95% of Americans a tax cut even though only 47% of Americans pay taxes is possible.
10. You feel that babies born alive during unsuccessful abortions do not deserve medical attention and should be left to die alone.
Using Winston Churchill’s words, Obama is a “Riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”. What do you really know about Obama?
October 4th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Melissa, you said, “Oh, and one more thing…McCain saying “the fundamentals of the American economy are strong” ,in which he was referring to the heart and soul of the American worker, but I agree it sounded horrible…”
Do you truly believe he was talking about the American worker? Ask any economist if the fundamentals of the economy are workers! That statement you quoted was his spin trying to not look so out of touch. I would have more respect for the guy (and gal) if they could ever admit a mistake or lapse of memory or anything other than “spinning” their unfortunate comments. (Words said did not mean what I wanted to say and that’s all right because I will explain it to you later!) while at the same time holding Obama to his words in the most literal sense and telling us that Obama meant EXACTLY what he said. Remember that…McCain said Obama chooses his words very carefully and he knows what he says. I choose the word “gullible”.
October 4th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Melissa, you said, “Oh, and one more thing…McCain saying “the fundamentals of the American economy are strong” ,in which he was referring to the heart and soul of the American worker, but I agree it sounded horrible…”
Do you truly believe he was talking about the American worker? Ask any economist if the fundamentals of the economy are workers! That statement you quoted was his spin trying to not look so out of touch. I would have more respect for the guy (and gal) if they could ever admit a mistake or lapse of memory or anything other than “spinning” their unfortunate comments. (Words said did not mean what I wanted to say and that’s all right because I will explain it to you later!) while at the same time holding Obama to his words in the most literal sense and telling us that Obama meant EXACTLY what he said. Remember that…McCain said Obama chooses his words very carefully and he knows what he says. I choose the word “gullible”.
Posted by Kuvas
October 4th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Did you not read the part where I said, I AGREE IT SOUNDED HORRIBLE!!!! I do think he made a mistake, and wasn’t sure how to correct it. It doesn’t matter what he does, you guys will find a way to chastise him for it!!!
Still no comments about Biden and his MANY gaffes!!!
October 4th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Oddither, that was great!!!! LOVE IT!!! :) You should post that to every site you can think of!!! I LOVE IT!!!! Very well written. :)
October 4th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Still no comments from any posters about Biden’s Gaffes or about Barney Frank and/or Chris Dodd…
Anyone? Anyone?
What a bunch of cowards you guys are…It makes me sick that our brave men and women have to defend freedom for people like you!!!!
October 4th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Melissa, I did read that and I also included it in my post to you. But, you also told us what he “meant” by it and that was the point of my response.
Good grief, they all make gaffes and they dust themselves off and go on; we notice and we go on, big deal.
I don’t believe McCain’s statement was a gaffe it was a real lack of understanding of what was happening in the economy. How do I know that? Because the worker is not the fundamentals of the economy, and even if they were, they aren’t just fine! Plain and simple. It wouldn’t matter who said it I would think the same thing: lack of understanding about the economy.
October 4th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Melissa, It makes me sick that our men and women have died in W’s war and are now “stuck” defending the freedom of people in Iraq.
October 4th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Like I said, it doesn’t matter what he does, you guys are going to chastise him for it. If he had appologized and said, “You know my strength is in my ability to keep this country safe, but I acknowledge my weakness and will find the best non-partisan economists to put on my staff” liberals would have beat him up for that! Especially when the majority of this mess can be traced back to Fannie and Freddie…again…no comments on Dodd and Frank…there is video proof, and McCain did warn about it in 2005!!!!
I agree with you that they all make gaffes…everyone’s human, I would laugh at the Joe Biden comment, and just say, “Oh well, he was having a bad day”, if our side got the same mulligan, but we never do…just look at the way Palin is treated!!!! Also, not one person has had the courage to respond to anything I’ve posted about the whole Fannie/Freddie situation!!!!! Go back and read some of the previous posts and look at the vids. on You Tube…the truth hurts…
I’m not a staunch party person…I’ll agree that Bush as made some mistakes and he has done some things I don’t like, but it’s so sad that most Democrats can’t put country before party! That’s probably why the ones who built this country, the party of my father, by the way…the Zell Millers and the Joe Liebermans have left the left…Oh, I know you want like me saying that, and you will just repsond with, “Oh, they weren’t true democrats anyway”…Actually, they were, they just were not liberal enough. You guys won’t be happy until all of our freedoms are gone, there are only two classes, the ruling elitest snobs, and the working peasants, who will never get a chance to get out…Stalin’s regime at it’s finest…You will want everyone to live in communes and no one will have to worry about defending any possessions because no one will have any. Everything will be grouped together and will all have to share. We will all be forced to listen to John Lennon’s Imagine all the time, while the ruling class takes over everything…(Think Mr. Potter in It’s a Wonderful Life!!!) It will be A Wonderful Life…for them…for the party that thinks of the little guy…that’s exactly how they think of you, “the little guy”…
October 4th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Oh, and btw, I am big enough to admit my mistakes…I made a few typos in that last post…sorry about that.
October 4th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Thanks VNCE, it just shows that they have no clue what service and sacrifice are all about!
October 4th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
VNCE you are a complete idiot. I apologize to everyone else on this forum as I don’t usually call someone names or insult their intelligence, but WOW. You are seriously stupid in equating signing up for the National Guard and volunteering to go to Iraq as the same thing.
Why don’t you pick up a magazine or read a newspaper…
From :http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/27626/
“The 48-year-old high school teacher was not naive about the possibility he might be called up to active duty some day. But seeing the buildup to Iraq was like “watching a train wreck happen and not being able to stop it.” “I always thought if I were called up for active duty, the circumstances would be dire enough that we would really be talking about the national defense,” he said. “We are not imperiled by Iraq. At some point, the citizens have to ask themselves if they are willing to sacrifice the people in their community.”
October 4th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Kuvas,
Signing up to be in the National Guard/Reserves/Active military is volunteering to go willingly into any battle, domestic or foreign as designated by the President of the United States.
October 4th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Hey I’ve got an idea for a liberal utopia for all you nuts…when your Messiah comes to power, why don’t you just start using all of that prosperity to phase out everyone who doesn’t think like you? While your at it, make sure they are all blue eyed blondes?
Oh wait, someone already tried that…sorry.
October 4th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Love the chart….some of the best humor is truth.
October 4th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Melissa,
I appreciate your post, and if (as you posted) McCain would have said, “You know my strength is in my ability to keep this country safe, but I acknowledge my weakness and will find the best non-partisan economists to put on my staff”, I would have respected him for that and thought, “makes sense…everyone can’t be an expert on everything”.
I haven’t posted on Dodd or Frank because I don’t know enough to post anything on the subject. I am not going to defend or agree with you on something I know nothing about.
I could absolutely care less about Lieberman or Miller.
I have also never posted anything that alludes to ALL Republicans or ALL Democrats or ALL Liberals, nor do I consider that I am on one side and you are on the other.
But, that is what you say in your post.
I have posted about Palin, but I don’t think her trouble in interviews are gaffes; I have serious concerns about her.
I am not a staunch Democrat, in fact, I have never voted Democrat except for the last election. McCain had a chance with me. He has chosen to do some things that turned me off enough (Palin is one of them) that I am looking at Obama.
You post gives a long litany of what I want, yet you know little about me. What is important to you, might not be important to me, but that does not mean I am an idiot, want to live in a commune, or don’t appreciate my freedoms. But, since you mentioned freedom, how have your Constitutional Rights faired under Bush? I don’t want the middle class to be eliminated, but that has been the direction this country has been headed for at least 30 years. Wages have not kept up with the cost of living and it is very rarely that a middle class family does not have two wage earners. Do you remember Bush’s comment when a lady in her late 50’s told him she worked 3 jobs? He said, “Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that”. I think it is unconscionable that any American would have to work 3 jobs to survive. Bush has also been environmentally irresponsible and I am just ready for a change. I don’t see a lot of change in McCain, but truly the absolute tipping point for me was his choice of Palin, he always says country first and then he chose her. Explain that to me…the guy is 72 years old and he chose her :(
October 4th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Don’t catorgorize me with all “libs” No body took her serious when Gov. Palin said she was going to go to war with Russia, you can’t take someone serious that says things they don’t know what they’re talking about. Being disrespectful IS without respect, that’s why you’re civil. Respect is putting someone in high regard, or esteem. I can respect the office she upholds without respecting her. Professionalism during a debate and talking with your constituency at a rally are two different forums, requiring two different demeanors.
October 4th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I’m not certain we shouldn’t take her seriously for what she says. Frankly, it is the trust in what she says that is one of my major issues with her. I do believe that her performance was “canned” and highly rehersed. Why? Because, most people prepare for a debate….some more than others. Now, having said that, I am not sure when she “slips” or “gaffes” that I can discount her…I contend that we don’t know her well enough to know that. For instance, we KNOW Joe Biden and John McCain since we’ve seen them for (literally) years…both the good and the bad. We know them well enough to know they would or wouldn’t take us to war without learning all the facts (notice that I didn’t say that Mc Cain wouldn’t readily take us to war….even though I believe he would). We just don’t know her well enough to trust that she made a mistake rather than allowing us to “see her soul” through those blinking eyes and stumbling phrases.
October 4th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Palin disappointed all of the dems because she was so strong. Rather sexist looking chart, Alan. Maybe you and your Jewish friends should read Obama’s own words in his books stating he will stand with the Muslims!!! He’s not your friend, but liberals are too stupid to realize it!!!
October 4th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
My, religious references….nice try. I’ve never met Obama, but I have read his books….not sure I ever saw that particular passage you refer to…could you forward the page and book title for me? Unlike some you may know, I just don’t pass along what I hear…I do some research. Now….Sarah performed well…but so do dogs when you train them. No, I’m not calling her a dog…the analogy is that she was trained…well trained to deliver talking points…no matter what the questions were…that is why she varried from the questions asked, and even said she was going to say what she wanted to despite the quesiones asked.
I stand with Muslims…I also stand proudly with Republicans, Jews, atheasts (sp), ministers, pasters, Baptists, Methodists, Catholists, Taoists, and would even stand proudly next to you. I believe you have a perfect right to your beliefs…just like all those others, and many more. Now, do you?
October 4th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Oh, Melissa? Don’t believe for a second that T Mason is your little buddy on here. She just stated on another thread that an MS just means a person is full of more BS, so I can’t imagine what your PhD is supposed to construe.
And for not being a “party” person, do you actually read your posts before you submit them:
“To all of you liberals, I’m just curious, what does it feel like to live your life with no set of morals, scruples, or belief in a higher power? In must be very sad and lonely…”
Sure sounds neocon to me. What was it you were saying about elevating public discourse? And living by your religious beliefs, which I assume include the 10 Commandments?
October 4th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Sarah,
Rofl. I will say it again. I have a BS. I have been exposed to more BS than a person with an associates degree. If and when I get my MS, that will be more s***. Have you never heard that before?
Sheesh. You seemed okay with the lipstick on a pig, her eyebrows stink, old tired white headed out of touch guy comments. I surely thought you would think the BS, MS lines were slightly hilarious.
October 4th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Is it true that Cindy McCain spent a whopping $200,000 on the suit she wore when she addressed our nation a couple of weeks ago? Is this how the McCain camp keeps in touch with Joe Six-pack and his family? Joe’s wife wouldn’t even be able to afford one of her shoes in her lifetime.
October 4th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
No president since Thomas Jefferson has spoken a second language. Why do so many of the worlds leaders speak more than one language. English is usually the predominate second language for these leaders. I don’t know why candidates who run for the highest office in our land don’t feel the need to cross those language barriers. In our country, Spanish would most likely be the second language to learn. This would most certainly be a way to clinch the Latino vote if they felt their candidate cares enough to learn and speak their language. This should certainly be a criteria for the president and vice president of our country.
October 4th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
“Everyone who is in Iraq right now is there because they volunteered to go there.”
Spoken like a real lawyer.
But the truth is a lot of them don’t want to be there, because they wanted to go to Afghanistan to fight THE REAL WAR ON TERROR, because that’s where our enemies are.
October 4th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
There are REAL terrorists in Iraq who are getting their weapons from Iran. There are real terrorists in Afghanistan. At least they aren’t fighting their war here, on American soil.
If you join the military, your are volunteering to go where your commander in chief sends you. Regardless of where it is, who you are fighting, how long you stay, when you come home, regardless of the danger.
They all take an oath. And they all volunteer. Don’t diminish their service.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
I don’t know T. Rocky said a lot of them don’t want to be there, I suspect that is true. It isn’t diminishing their service by saying so.
Do you really think they all want to be in Iraq? I kind of doubt it.
I have to travel to all kinds of places for my work that I don’t want to go to. Sure, I volunteer, i.e. I could always quit, but it doesn’t necessarily mean I want to be sucking down all that pollution in Mexico City.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
post should readL
I don’t know T. Mason, Rocky said…
October 4th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
I don’t doubt that some don’t want to be there, they would rather be with their families.
However, a lot of posters today have implied that our military men and women are forced to serve. That is not the case, and that does in my opinion diminish their service.
I admire them for serving their country.
I would love for them to come home. But I don’t think we can just leave abruptly and let everything we have secured come tumbling down. That would be even worse in the eyes of the world.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Hey T.
Somewhat related, and on the defending Palin front, not something you are going to see me do every day but…
It really irritates me to hear people say “It shows she is a bad mother because she is letting her son go to Iraq”. I have seen this idiocy on this blog several times.
It is a volunteer army, entirely made up of adults, who chose to serve their country by joining the military.
(besides the fact that since she is not running to be my Mom, I fail to see how her motherhood has anything to do with the fact that she would not be my pick for VP)
October 4th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Um,
I have gone round and round with some, one in particular who are attacking her mothering ability or what they see as a lack thereof. They attack her looks, her accent, nasty things about her daughter, herself, and both of her sons.
If you don’t like her policy, just say so. Say something with some substance. Leave the juvenile junior high/high school slams at the door.
I can deal with political differences but the personal attacks are really getting under my skin. I don’t attack Biden or Obama on a personal level, and quite frankly I believe if the right were saying the same nasty things about Obama’s wife the world would come to a screeching halt.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Vnce,
Trust me, there are all kinds of people in the military, in Iraq, who don’t want to be there. To argue otherwise is silly.
Though them wanting to be there or not has nothing to do w/ what the proper policy in Iraq should be, they are volunteers as T. pointed out, and the vast majority of them want to fulfill their duty and follow orders, regardless of whether they want to be in Iraq or not.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Vnce,
They joined the military to FIGHT and KILL THE ENEMY AND HELP ALLIES
Folks join the military for a lot of different reasons. Some, for the reasons you listed. Some to get a college education. Some are seeking to learn discipline in their life. Etc.. etc.. etc…
Regardless of why the join, I thank them for their service.
October 4th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Melissa,
I appreciate your post, and if (as you posted) McCain would have said, “You know my strength is in my ability to keep this country safe, but I acknowledge my weakness and will find the best non-partisan economists to put on my staff”, I would have respected him for that and thought, “makes sense…everyone can’t be an expert on everything”.
I haven’t posted on Dodd or Frank because I don’t know enough to post anything on the subject. I am not going to defend or agree with you on something I know nothing about.
I could absolutely care less about Lieberman or Miller.
I have also never posted anything that alludes to ALL Republicans or ALL Democrats or ALL Liberals, nor do I consider that I am on one side and you are on the other.
But, that is what you say in your post.
I have posted about Palin, but I don’t think her trouble in interviews are gaffes; I have serious concerns about her.
I am not a staunch Democrat, in fact, I have never voted Democrat except for the last election. McCain had a chance with me. He has chosen to do some things that turned me off enough (Palin is one of them) that I am looking at Obama.
You post gives a long litany of what I want, yet you know little about me. What is important to you, might not be important to me, but that does not mean I am an idiot, want to live in a commune, or don’t appreciate my freedoms. But, since you mentioned freedom, how have your Constitutional Rights faired under Bush? I don’t want the middle class to be eliminated, but that has been the direction this country has been headed for at least 30 years. Wages have not kept up with the cost of living and it is very rarely that a middle class family does not have two wage earners. Do you remember Bush’s comment when a lady in her late 50’s told him she worked 3 jobs? He said, “Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that”. I think it is unconscionable that any American would have to work 3 jobs to survive. Bush has also been environmentally irresponsible and I am just ready for a change. I don’t see a lot of change in McCain, but truly the absolute tipping point for me was his choice of Palin, he always says country first and then he chose her. Explain that to me…the guy is 72 years old and he chose her :(
Posted by Kuvas
October 4th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Kuvas,
Thank you for responding with such a thoughtful post. I appreciate the fact that you sound like a truly intelligent person and you do take the time to analyze different positions. In my post, I wasn’t addressing everything to you. Only part of it was directed to you, and the rest was directed at liberals in general. I’m sorry it was misconstrued.
I do find it odd though, that you would accept that McCain might not be an expert on everything, (if he would have said that as we both stated above) but most liberals think that Obama can and does know everything! He may be good at something, but I’ve really yet to see how his “accomplishments” will help our country. Just my opinion, and yes you and everyone else are intitled to their own…that’s what makes this a great country…where I really get irritated are people who act like they care about our troops by saying, “Bring them home, bring them home!” Your right, I don’t know you, and I don’t know what you want from life, but assuming it’s legal, you have the right as an American, to “go for it”. However; being the daughter of a 2 tour veteran, and the sister of an Air Force and National Guard Member, I can assure you that regardless of “why” they join, most of them want to be where they are, doing what they can to help this country remain the best place on earth. It is so sad that liberals (again, generalizing..) don’t seem to honor patriotism, and seem to think it is “so beneath them” and so “redneck” or “hick” or just so “low rent”. I believe the true measure of a country’s worth, should be measured by how many are trying to get in and how many are trying to get out. We are obviously doing something right as a country.
As for my comments about Dodd and Frank, again, I was asking for anyone to just quickly take a gander at the vids. and then try to explain how they can defend these two, much less still try to blame the WHOLE thing on the deregulation and McCain…sorry not buying it…
As for how I’ve faired under Bush, well even though, as I stated before, there is a lot about him that I don’t like, I’ve actually faired quite well…I am a professional Phd, who went from working full time, to running my own business from my home, I am a stay at home Mommy to two small children in a 6,000 square ft. house on multiple acres of land. My husband is a professional who works for a Wall Street firm. We vacation quite often and I volunteer quite often at my child’s school. I also give of my time, talent, and money to many charities….Why am I telling you this, other than the fact that you asked? Well, because it doesn’t really matter who had been President…My husband and I both worked our tails off to get where we are!!!! We never asked for anything from the government. Anyone can be here, in this same spot…all it takes is determination and hard work…not the government!!!!
October 4th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Oh, Melissa? Don’t believe for a second that T Mason is your little buddy on here. She just stated on another thread that an MS just means a person is full of more BS, so I can’t imagine what your PhD is supposed to construe.
And for not being a “party” person, do you actually read your posts before you submit them:
“To all of you liberals, I’m just curious, what does it feel like to live your life with no set of morals, scruples, or belief in a higher power? In must be very sad and lonely…”
Sure sounds neocon to me. What was it you were saying about elevating public discourse? And living by your religious beliefs, which I assume include the 10 Commandments?
Posted by Sarah
October 4th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Sarah,
I do believe that T.Mason probably shares many of my same beliefs. Sorry to disapoint you. :(
No, I’m not a staunch Republican. I am a conservative. There is a difference. If you don’t understand it, you should research it, but then again that might be a little too much work for you.
All I did was ask a question…I don’t know what it is like to live life that way b/c I never have…so I was just curious to find out why the liberal mind thinks the way it does…If you have no morals or scruples to guide you…then I guess it must be easy to believe anything is okay? And as far as me being a neocon? Why is that your party is supposed to be the party of tolerance, but Christians aren’t to be tolerated? I haven’t seen one Christian on this post, who has tried to inflect his/her views on anyone else, even though I’m sure they would love to share the love of God with them…However; we respect your right to not believe.
Why can’t you do that with us? Why do you have to remove our right to pray from public places, or from schools, or take down the 10 Commandments? I guess your message of tolerance only applies to those who are tolerant of you.
October 4th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Yes, you said it Vnce…. :) They don’t know how to respond to true factual evidence…they whine worse than my 5 year old, or my 16 month old, for that matter… :)
This is a previous post of my thoughts on how they want their Orwellian Utopia to be…
You guys won’t be happy until all of our freedoms are gone, there are only two classes, the ruling elitest snobs, and the working peasants, who will never get a chance to get out…Stalin’s regime at it’s finest…You will want everyone to live in communes and no one will have to worry about defending any possessions because no one will have any. Everything will be grouped together and will all have to share. We will all be forced to listen to John Lennon’s Imagine all the time, while the ruling class takes over everything…(Think Mr. Potter in It’s a Wonderful Life!!!) It will be A Wonderful Life…for them…for the party that thinks of the little guy…that’s exactly how they think of you, “the little guy”…
October 4th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
One typical solution to a losing argument, change the topic. Wasn’t the topic of the thread the flow chart on Sarah’s “capable” performance in the debate? Do you deny that the chart is accurate? Do you argue that the chart isn’t a valid representation of how the coped with staying on message while protecting her weak knowledge base?
October 4th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Well, Robert, if you are addressing this post to me, then yes, I agree a typical solution to a losing argument, is to avoid the question, which is something liberals do all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hence, once again, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS RESPONDED TO ANY OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS ABOUT BARNEY FRANK, CHRIS DODD, AND THE FANNIE/FREDDIE HEARINGS, AND MCCAIN’S WARNING ABOUT THE WHOLE MESS IN 2005!!!! IT IS FACT, THERE ARE VIDEOS TO PROVE IT!!!! If you had read through the whole thread, you would see that the discussions had progressed to this point!!!!!!
No, I don’t agree that the chart is accurate. I think it’s just another one of liberals mean spirited attacks on a truly incredible woman who is totally competent. She may be a little wet behind the ears when it comes to Washington standards, but she does have experience, whether you guys want to admit it or not!!!! She DOES have more experience than your NO. 1, you can’t deny that, no matter how hard you try. I’ve never called into question Obama’s lack of experience, until it was brought up about her! I don’t really care about that, b/c I think it may be time to pair some fresh faces with the old, so maybe some things can get done in Washington, instead of the same old, same old partisan, bickering, stealing from taxpayers, listening to corrupt lobbyists, etc…. Maybe it’s going to take someone with a fresh approach to truly put country first, and she is the most fresh faced there is, when it comes to Washington standards! Sorry, even more so than your pretty boy!
Doggone it! Wonder why Alan didn’t just link her with Elle Woods from Legally Blonde? That might have proved his point…but hey he couldn’t do that, b/c she finds a way to get things done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t really know what makes liberals more scared of her, the fact that she is someone who means business, and will accomplish it, or the fact that deep inside, the men dream of having a beautiful, do it all woman like her, and know they would never in a million years have a chance! :)
October 5th, 2008 at 7:25 am
Melissa, you use a lot of emoticons and exclamation points for a person holding a doctorate!!!!!!! :) Sorry, I work with quite a few Ph.Ds, so it seemed really noticeable.
You describe…
“To all of you liberals, I’m just curious, what does it feel like to live your life with no set of morals, scruples, or belief in a higher power? In must be very sad and lonely…”
…as “just asking a question.” I guess that explains the sum of your communication and reasoning ability.
But simpering faux innocence is an annoying character trait also found in inexperienced, unprepared, but very pretty and charismatic VP candidates.
As for “Oh gee, Liberals just don’t tolerate Christians, I’m afraid,” you can spare me the crocodile tears.
I live in the Bible belt, and evangelists’ zeal in recruiting Born-Agains, politicking from the pulpit, and turning public schools into Sunday Schools, is akin to waging guerilla warfare in a spiritual sense and it shows neither tolerance, nor respect, to those who hold other religious beliefs. The number of homages to “Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior” that I had to listen to at my niece’s graduation was absolutely appalling. As a Christian, I could appreciate it, but I felt extremely sympathetic to any Jews, Muslims, etc., who might be watching their own child’s momentous occasion.
I believe in the Jesus Christ who condemned those who prayed loudly on street corners instead of in closets. I believe in the Christ that said, Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and unto God what is God’s. Jesus worked his ass off, he didn’t just sit around talking and stewing, holding quilting bees and sending youth groups off to Disney World. He wasn’t about jumbotrons or gymnasiums.
The reason the 10 Commandments don’t belong in our taxpayer-supported institutions, is because all our taxpayers are NOT Jewish or Christian.
It’s another case in which Christians are trying to indoctrinate everyone in their religion, under the auspices of “but you have to tolerate us!”
Not really. And I’ll tell you where I’d LOVE to trim the gov’t, immediately if not sooner: I’d ashcan the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives in less than a heartbeat.
October 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Incidentally, responding to your Freddie/Fannie thing, I didn’t read the whole post, but I’ll agree, Dodd and Frank helped screw the pooch on this one. And I read McCain’s reading of the report he was given a couple years ago.
Frankly, when I bought our house a couple years ago, I was appalled when my husband told me his lender friend (who’s now looking at bankruptcy) said we qualified for a loan 4 times what we were asking for.
Even if you weren’t in Washington, D.C., it was clear something was going to implode soon. Dave Ramsey’s been preaching it for years now. Shoot, my dad still reads through his 1960s textbooks and can’t believe how many basic tenets are violated in today’s economy– from the way businesses are run, to how Wall Street operates. It’s Jenga.
What many on the right fail to admit, however, is that Bush pushed beyond the limits when it came to deregulation. They also seem blind to the fact that the GOP has been given most of the power in the past 15 years.
What’s even more interesting is, Republicans and conservatives complain about how awful society has gotten, but we’ve had Republican conservative administrations for 28 of the last 40 years. And out of 12 years of Democratic administration, 8 were the most prosperous I’ve ever seen in my life.
Admittedly, part of that is because GHW Bush raised taxes, which is something else the right on here never seem to want to acknowledge. Along with admitting that the most fatal terrorist act, pre-9/11, came from a right-wing militia group who bombed a federal building in Oklahoma (a fact the right ignores when it talks about failed ’60s radical Ayers).
October 5th, 2008 at 11:16 am
“Well, Robert, if you are addressing this post to me, then yes, I agree a typical solution to a losing argument, is to avoid the question, which is something liberals do all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hence, once again, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS RESPONDED TO ANY OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS ABOUT BARNEY FRANK, CHRIS DODD, AND THE FANNIE/FREDDIE HEARINGS, AND MCCAIN’S WARNING ABOUT THE WHOLE MESS IN 2005!!!! IT IS FACT, THERE ARE VIDEOS TO PROVE IT!!!! If you had read through the whole thread, you would see that the discussions had progressed to this point!!!!!!
It’s because it’s all crap. Next?
October 5th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
It’s the economy, stupid (again). Three quarters of a million jobs are down the drain this year alone.
The Bush administration deregulated medication costs in medicare.
The Bush administration deregulated violance in Iraq without bringing about a political solution to that mess.
The Bush administration deregulated corperate greed from Haliburton and others who enjoy “cost plus” non competitive bid contracts with the government.
The Bush administration deregulated safety in the FEMA trailors sent to “help” the victims of that disaster.
The Bush administration deregulated the congress to pass a law infusing government into the affairs of a family in Florida regarding a feeding tube…thankfully, the courts stopped that intrusion.
The Bush administration deregulated the practice of hiring the best qualified people to serve the people in the justice department, the first groups into Iraq to re establish a free government and economy.
The Bush administration deregulated the use of torture.
October 5th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Wow! It’s been busy on here this morning. Robert, I’m going to try and remain civil with you, even though you seem to be resorting to name calling and changing the subject….Hence, your first post this morning…
saying it’s all crap. What a way to rebutt an argument. Especially, when you are the one who brought up the issue of people changing the subject. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ROFL
Score —- Melissa 1, Robert 0
In your second post, while you do list some facts, you resort to name calling, calling me stupid… Another classic example of how to lose a debate….
Score —- Melissa 2, Robert 0
Maybe next time when you start posting all of your “factual information” you could be kind enough to cite some of your references….Oh, you can’t or won’t do that…let me cite them for you…
Huffingtonpost.com, DailyKos.com, AirAmerica.com, and oh
how could I forget AlJazerra.com
Score — Melissa 3, Robert 0
Game———————Set——————– MATCH!
October 5th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Melissa, you are right…almost.
The stupid remark was in reference to an old campaign slogan used by Clinton…but, if you feel it was directed to you, I will certainly yield an apology to you.
Your second point is well taken. I should have used references as I challenge others to do. Yep, I was terribly remiss and yield a firm, “You are right on!”
The post, however, was not directed towards you. It was in reference to VNCE.
Melissa, I have no problems in admitting that my head got ahead of me. It was VNCE that got under my skin and started my engine. Please, forgive my over zealousness in the matter of my last postings.
October 5th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
I notice the navigation chart does not indicate the off-shore banks the elite are using. Using America’s banking system? Are you kidding? If you bank overseas, you can afford to be liberal. Otherwise, you’re a serf.
October 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Good Morning/Afternoon Sarah,
After reading your posts, I scrolled back through this thread in response to my emoticon use. If you call putting a few smileys and frownies at the end of a few sentences “a lot”, then I guess that’s indicative of your less than sunny disposition. You seem fixatated on my advanced degrees, as you have mentioned them in a few posts. I’m not sure why this would be a point of envy for you, unless you just don’t want to work hard enough to get any yourself. Not only do I have my sheepskins stating my BS, MS and PhDs, I have the receipts to prove them as well…I worked my tail off, never asking for anything from the government!!!! There is a sense of pride of accomplishment that comes when you can do something for yourself, something you liberals will never understand, especially when you continue to suck at the government teet! I also believe that having any form of advanced degree doesn’t neccessarily mean you are “smarter” or more “intelligent” than many others. It just means you are more educated in certain doctrines or discplines, and you have more perservance. It does not mean you must become a robot, void of any feelings or emotions, and I find it odd that you would focus on that, considering the left’s stance on using emotions to guide policy.
Obviously, and you may be a Christian, however; from your posts you seem like a very angry one. I would never attempt to descerate Jesus by saying “He worked His **** off”…but that’s just me, and your entitled to your opinion.
I didn’t really think I was “simpering faux innocence” but since you brought up the comparison of Sarah Palin, wow, what a compliment. I will admit her accomplishments, even though I know you and your liberal friends will not, so I guess your calling me pretty and charismatic. Thanks for the compliment, as even Joe Biden has called her “good lookin’”.
On the whole issue of my original question about faith, which again, you have seemed very focused on…if you will notice, I never said anything about Christianity in that post…you assumed that. I have no problem with other people’s faiths. All I asked about was belief in a higher power…and generally, people who have a belief in a higher power do have some set of morals that guide them to live their lives in a certain way. I would think as a Christian you would undertstand that.
I also don’t understand what the big deal is about the Ten Commandments. No, I’m not completely versed in Jewish law, so I can only go by my own research and from what I know from my Jewish friends…(GASP…the Christian has Jewish friends?) It seems to me that the Ten Commandments were written as Jewish law, not Christian law. There may be a few interperation differences…but I think as a whole, most rabbis, and pastors, priests, whould agree on the tenants. If not, why would it be unacceptable to ask the heads of each to complete a draft each is comfortable hanging in court rooms? Is that because it would offend Muslims, well our FOUNDING FATHERS based and wrote our legal backbone based on Judeo-Christian values. That is a fact. Yes, Muslims have the opportunity to come here, just like anyone else, and they have the right to practice their own religion. I have no problem with that. However; the laws of the United States were not based on Muslim law, so if they want that, then they need to make a choice. The Constitution was not written and meant to be ammended to allow everyone to do everything. As for Atheists, well, they don’t really believe anything, so why should it matter to them. If you don’t believe in a higher power, you don’t believe in any type of afterlife…then live your present until you float back into dust, I don’t care…but don’t expect that the laws written for the majority should be ammended to you. One of the greatest things about America is that you have the freedom to do what you want…if you don’t like “under God” in the pledge, then it is your right to not say it, if you don’t like using currency with “in God we trust” then don’t use it…but DON’T expect that everyone else is going to abandon their entire belief system, just to make you feel abdicated and superior. Sorry, not going to happen.
As for your second post, I do appreciate your aknowledgement of the whole Fannie/Freddie situation. At least you had the courage to post about it and admit some blame, which no one else had the courage to do, so I admire you for that.
I know what you mean about the whole situation. It is completely out of control, and lenders became way out of control as well. Yes, it is a wonderful idea and belief that everyone can and will have their own home. It is not reasonable to believe though, that everyone should be handed a home they can’t afford, or even given a home at the expense of everyone else. I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but if you will do some digging, you will find that most of the Fannie/Freddie situation happened under Clinton and his appointees… Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of Republicans to blame in this mess as well, but if you will look at it honestly, and objectively, you will see.
As for your claim that the GOP has had power for the last 15 years, well, from what I remember, W. has only been president for the last 8, Dems have had congress for the last two, so don’t know how you get 15 from that, but maybe you are referring to the Clinton era, when the GOP had Congress for 6 years…but I guess once again, Clinton takes all the credit for that era as well, not the GOP…or not even a combined approach.
As for your last comment about Bush 1, I’ll concede that…I didn’t really care for him very much, and he did raise taxes, when he said he wouldn’t…I hate to tell you this, your poster boy is going to do the same thing…he is just trying to hide in ways that he thinks his “too dumb” elecorate will understand. When he says he will only raise corporate taxes, I hate to tell you, corporations don’t pay taxes…PEOPLE DO!!! The corporation may have their name on the check, but it will be passed down to the consumer. When he said he would cut capital gains taxes on corporations, um, again, corporations don’t pay capital gains taxes, they pay income taxes. I’m sorry to burst your utopian bubble, but it is the truth.
Then, he says he is only going to increase taxes on individuals and corporations who make more than 250K a year, and he doesn’t call it income re-distribution. Has no one on the liberal side never read Atlas Shrugged? Well, I hate to bring up this point, but let’s just pretend, that your theory works for a couple of years…you tax at the top, and distribute it to the bottom. Then, as years go on, the top starts looking around to say, “You know, those many years of medical school just aren’t worth the long hours, malpractice fees, and payroll/admin. costs, just to be taxed at a ridiculous rate. I think I’ll just quit, so I can be a bottom dweller and receive more than I make now…I think I’ll give up my once lucrative business, where I did pay my fair shar of taxes, contributed to society, and felt somewhat important, for all that I accomplished with my own hard work. I’ll just go somewhere and make minimum wage…hey everything here is free…all my benefits, no admin costs…what a deal”, so he calls his professional friends, and tells them all about it. After a while, they decide to do the same, and as time goes on there is no top level. What happenes to the taxes they were paying to support the bottom? So, what happens to the bottom, not to mention the fact that most of our prestigious professions are no longer around to treat sickness, reside over hearings, etc…society will crumble from within. Yes, it’s just a theory, but please explain to me how it won’t happen…I’m listening.
Yes, Oklahoma City was an appauling tragedy. I don’t think anyone will deny that. However; how you can tie the existence of two complete loons to the GOP, is just beyond me. The last time I checked, I didn’t see McCain sitting on boards or having commaraderie with Timothy McVey, and I’m not positive, but I don’t think he launched his presidential campaign from his or Brian McVey’s house…What an absurd argument!
October 5th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Professor Vnce teaches us:
I have quite a few friends on the right, one couple in particular are easily as right wing as any poster on this site. I don’t think they are evil, and I fully understand they too wish the best for people, they just have a different way of getting there.
I know this because I have had quite a few conversations with them about politics. We are able to have those conversations because we don’t insult each other – you know, like you do, all the time, calling us on the left stupid liars and such.
Talk with folks you disagree with sometime without insulting them, you might learn something, and so might they.
October 5th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Melissa,
I enjoyed reading your post. You brought up excellent points about the years/who controlled the country. Your points about Christianity/Judaism and the right to freedom of religion in America, I believe was right on point.
Thank you for a wonderful post.
October 5th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
My 16 YO son read the VP transcript’s debate. He gave SArah an F for grammar and a C- for coherence.Wake up America, no more of the same! please.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
My 16 YO son read the VP transcript’s debate. He gave SArah an F for grammar and a C- for coherence.Wake up America, no more of the same! please.
Posted by pierre
October 5th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Well, now that I have the opinion of a 16 year old, I’m going to run out and switch my vote! Oh wait, I’ve already voted…too bad I’m not a homeless person in Ohio, or I could vote again, and again, and again….
October 5th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Thanks T. Mason…I enjoy reading your posts as well. :) :) :) :) Sorry Sarah!
October 5th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Professor Vnce teaches us:
The Left see itself as the only legitimate moral actor. They believe they have the intellectual superiority to recognize the best way to order society (collectivism), and that once we get there, injustice, discrimination and inequality will end.
So when such a person encounters those who do not want to be part of the collective and who are not obsessed by a Utopaian standard of equality, then they view that person as being against thier entire program..a dn that must mean that person is evil.. because no good person could object to the Left’s goal.
I have quite a few friends on the right, one couple in particular are easily as right wing as any poster on this site. I don’t think they are evil, and I fully understand they too wish the best for people, they just have a different way of getting there.
I know this because I have had quite a few conversations with them about politics. We are able to have those conversations because we don’t insult each other – you know, like you do, all the time, calling us on the left stupid liars and such.
Talk with folks you disagree with sometime without insulting them, you might learn something, and so might they.
Posted by Um Cara
October 5th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Um Cara,
I’ve read several of your posts since starting on this thread…and it seems you are usually most respectful and courteous. I read your post about the troops where you thanked them for their service, no matter what the party affiliation. This is as it should be from any American and I want to thank you for recognizing the sacrifice these brave men and women make for all us.
However, so many on the left are not that way, don’t get me wrong, I know the right has certain generalizations as well. I agree that the middle is where we need to meet to make a happy medium for everyone.
I really feel as though you were quite rude to VNCE. He didn’t attack you personally. He was just attacking a philosophy, that he has been shown to be true by the majority of liberals.
October 5th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
What an arrogant, condescending little madam you are, Melissa. We are all here on our own free will, can say whatever the hell we like within the rules and have no obligation to treat each other with dignity and respect. It’s a blog site, for gawd’s sake, not the Senate!
As far as claiming superiority for having this degree or that PhD, forget about it. We can all invent whatever background we like and no-one has a clue whether it’s kosher or crap. You stand and fall in an arena like this purely on the quality of your argument, so don’t kid yourself.
October 5th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
And by the way, Melissa, next time you want to crow about having a doctorate, I’d be careful not to spell it in all lower case. Can’t think of a university on Earth that awards anyone a phd rather than a PhD…
October 5th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Hi John, I see someone had their Fantasy Flakes this morning…
What a typical liberal you are! Coming from you, I will take arrogant and condescending as compliments. :) Yes, you are right, we can all make up whatever we want. I didn’t even bring up my background, until someone else called me a “smarty pants” and asked me about it. No, you will never have any way to “check my background”, and I don’t really care, I have no reason to lie, and I didn’t try to sound superior based on my educational background. If you will pull the drug haze from your eyes, you might be able to go back and see in one of my last posts, where I discussed just that! Moron. Typical liberal…act on your emotions and not on facts. I’m not kidding myself about anything, I think I’ve put forth some rather good “factual information”, and I acknowledge when I’m wrong and I’ve complimented others as well. As far as treating anyone with dignity and respect, thank God it’s not the Senate…there would not be a site to post on!
Again, as if you care, I wasn’t crowing about having a PhD…your right that is the correct formal way to list it. I just didn’t take the time to list it correctly, b/c I was typing so fast, trying to convey my thoughts on the post. If it must be posted again, I will make sure to post it correctly…but then again, I can tell by your attitude, you wouldn’t really care anyway.
Oh, and btw…if you notice, in that last post, I was actually complimenting someone as well. I find it funny that you want to single me out, when the person I was complimenting for other posts was a little rude as well…so I guess you are the sanctimonous one, but then again, that is synonomous with liberal… Just keep spewing your vitrole….
The pedagogy of liberalism just reinforces the tenants of conservatism.
Now run along little Johnny, I hear a thesaurus calling your name.
October 5th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Melissa,
I guess you have answered my question about whether you have friends who are liberals. If you regularly use phrases like ‘typical liberals’, I’m guessing not. Unless you just make comments like that behind their back? Or, maybe, like Palin and her gay friend, you ‘tolerate’ your liberal friends?
October 5th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Um Cara, I do have some liberal friends, and I’m sure they don’t think I’m evil, but we don’t talk politics, because we can’t agree on that much, so we keep the conversations light and to other things we have in common. I like them, they are good people, but like you said, we just disagree about what we think is best for the country.
I try not to attack anyone personally, I may attack philosophies, but only if I have facts to back up my belief. I would never put forth anything that I didn’t first research. I’m sure you are the same way. However, if someone attacks me first, then I fire back. I understand your reasons for wanting to defend your philosophy, and with only knowing you from your posts, I would say you seem like a good person. We just differ politically and philosophically. I think VNCE is right on many of his posts, and you don’t. That is our right as Americans. I do again, respect your value of our troops. Thank you again for that.
October 5th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
There really is no need to leave politics off the table for discussion with your liberal friends. They are exactly who you should be discussing politics with. If you are only discussing with like minded folks, odds are you are not challenging many of your preconceptions and that is one reason you come up with ideas like ‘typical liberals’ as an insult. Who knows, one or the other of you may change your mind on an issue or two. If you guys can’t discuss politics without fighting, either they aren’t very good friends, or one of you is being unreasonable.
I have yet to meet a person in real life (as opposed to various wackos on blogs) who do not respect the troops. Many people, including myself, completely disagree with the policy – but the weirdos who threw pig blood on returning Vietnam veterans just don’t seem to exist anymore. Thank God.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Typical this, typical that… real Mensa-grade arguments you are pulling out of the bag today, Melissa. Terribly sorry, but anyone who thinks the angry old man and his nasty, anti-intellectual liar of a running mate are the best you can do this year simply does not qualify as a thinking individual to me.
Conservative or progressive… there are good and bad people on both sides of the divide, and we should all be able to respect a good, reasoned argument, even if we disagree with it. My personal viewpoint is that mankind is on a journey from savagery to enlightenment – take a long view of history and you’ll see positive progress in many fields. Where we had tyrranical rule by the strongest, we now have democracy; where we had slavery, we have freedom; where we had compulsory religion, we now have choice; where we had ignorance, we have enlightenment. Not perfect by any means, but the general trend of society is positive.
Stand wherever you like on the spectrum – as long as you have something intelligent to say, I will listen.
I see progressives as the accelerator as we head towards a better, fairer world, and conservatives as the brake. There are a lot of mis-steps and mistakes along the way, and collossal failures like Soviet and Chinese Communism, but as a rule it is liberals who push for improvement and conservatives that try to delay it.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
You are certainly a new ager John, and you have a right to your viewpoint, as I have a right to mine. I’m not really sure if you have read back through any of my previous posts today. If you scroll back up a little, you will see were I have put forth some very intelligent positions and questions. According to your own post, you said, as long as [someone]has something intelligent to say, you will listen. I will give you a chance to listen (or read)…however; I’m sure your argument back to me will be that it wasn’t that intelligent just because it differed with your point of view. You obviously just want to call everyone names, and you don’t want to back up your views with facts…As I’ve said again and again, yes, there are good and bad on both sides…
As you state your viewpoint, yes I agree with you mankind has done some amazing things in our time here. I can see your point about savagery to enlightenment, and choice is a wonderful thing. It does make democracy strong. No one wants to live in a tyrannical, world where they are force-fed one idea and one school of thought. Isn’t it ironic, that this is the world Obama will lead us to, should he be elected. How, you ask, can I make such a claim, when he has spouted on and on about his inclusion policies and his fair treatment for the middle class? Well, it’s simple, whenever I look at a candidate, I ALWAYS look at his/her voting record to see how they stand. I do look at their associations, and I look to see, as much as possible, how they’ve lived their own lives. No one is perfect, we make mistakes, we are all human, after all. However, with a record like Obama’s, I don’t really believe much of anything he says, other than that he probably does love his wife and children. McCain has made mistakes as well, but for me, with my viewpoint, his non-mistakes more closely align with my viewpoint. He will raise your taxes. Consider this from a previous post I made earlier. Maybe you can refute my argument…
I hate to tell you this, your poster boy is going to do the same thing…he is just trying to hide in ways that he thinks his “too dumb” elecorate will understand. When he says he will only raise corporate taxes, I hate to tell you, corporations don’t pay taxes…PEOPLE DO!!! The corporation may have their name on the check, but it will be passed down to the consumer. When he said he would cut capital gains taxes on corporations, um, again, corporations don’t pay capital gains taxes, they pay income taxes. I’m sorry to burst your utopian bubble, but it is the truth.
Then, he says he is only going to increase taxes on individuals and corporations who make more than 250K a year, and he doesn’t call it income re-distribution. Has no one on the liberal side never read Atlas Shrugged? Well, I hate to bring up this point, but let’s just pretend, that your theory works for a couple of years…you tax at the top, and distribute it to the bottom. Then, as years go on, the top starts looking around to say, “You know, those many years of medical school just aren’t worth the long hours, malpractice fees, and payroll/admin. costs, just to be taxed at a ridiculous rate. I think I’ll just quit, so I can be a bottom dweller and receive more than I make now…I think I’ll give up my once lucrative business, where I did pay my fair shar of taxes, contributed to society, and felt somewhat important, for all that I accomplished with my own hard work. I’ll just go somewhere and make minimum wage…hey everything here is free…all my benefits, no admin costs…what a deal”, so he calls his professional friends, and tells them all about it. After a while, they decide to do the same, and as time goes on there is no top level. What happenes to the taxes they were paying to support the bottom? So, what happens to the bottom, not to mention the fact that most of our prestigious professions are no longer around to treat sickness, reside over hearings, etc…society will crumble from within. Yes, it’s just a theory, but please explain to me how it won’t happen…I’m listening.
As for Palin, I have no problem with people wanting to know who she is…that’s fine. She’s new on the scene, and people, including me, want to know who is this close to the presidency. However, what is not okay with me, is the way she has been made out to be some sort of devil witch because of her personal beliefs. I guess tolerance only works one way with the democratic party. I have no problem with Biden personally. I’m sure he was/is a great father and husband. I just don’t agree with him politically and the way he just gets a pass with every lie. It’s easy to fit your agenda when you don’t have to tell the truth. No wonder he is considered a “champion debater”…it’s easy to just make up whatever sounds good to fill the moment. I would not, however, take my dislike for his political philosophy to the same level it has been unleashed on Gov. Palin. I would never try to attack his children, or question his ability to be a good father just beacause one of his teenagers got caught in a bad situation. I would never question his ability to be good at his job because he chose to put his children in a place of respect. Conservatives belive in a utopia too, we just believe in one where all sides are treated equal, not just one.
Something that liberals never want to give any creedence to is the fact the Lincoln, who signed the law ending slavery, in the US, was a Republican. Now, I realize your view is a world-view and not just a country-centered one, so let me throw this out there…Liberals will never admit that Ronald Reagan had any impact on communism at all. Without Reagan, I can guarantee the cold war would not have ended…and even though, it might be heating up again, it’s much quieter than it would have been. I know you won’t acknowledge that, but I just have to put my thought out there, as it is my right to do so.
I don’t know you, and I don’t know your stance on the military. I know there are “right wing military nut jobs” who take it too far, but it bothers me that the left just can’t comprehend what liberty and freedom truly cost. If it weren’t for people like my father and brother, this whole country would be speaking German, or living under the flag of Japan, or Iraq, or North Korea, or Iran, or Afghanistan. Of course, with your world view, that probably doesn’t bother you, so it really does no good to argue that point with you, except to ask you to remember the reason you are able to have your viewpoint is because of brave men and women who go and do what is asked of them.
Well, maybe that gave you something to stir on for a little while, and you will listen to my “intelligent arguments”. We’ll see…
October 5th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Melissa said:
You obviously just want to call everyone names
All the name calling really is tiresome, isn’t it?
his “too dumb” elecorate will understand
Uh oh.
Has no one on the liberal side never read Atlas Shrugged?
Sure, back in the 9th grade. I went through an Ayn Rand phase, I read most of her stuff. All that Objectivism hoo-ha. I agree with some of it, disagree with some of it. I didn’t buy her argument about empathy in ‘The Virtue of Selfishness’, for example. Anyway, why do you ask?
bothers me that the left just can’t comprehend what liberty and freedom truly cost.
Oh dear
. If it weren’t for people like my father and brother, this whole country would be speaking German, or living under the flag of Japan, or Iraq, or North Korea, or Iran, or Afghanistan.
Sure, or my grandfather, father, brother, nephew, niece, etc… It really is an arrogant assumption to think that only those folks who agree with you politically appreciate our troops. As I pointed out in another post, you seem to think people who disagree with military policy of Bush and McCain don’t appreciate the people who have to carry out those policies. Why is that? Where do you get that idea?
Well, maybe that gave you something to stir on for a little while, and you will listen to my “intelligent arguments”. We’ll see
Bah. I’m part of that dumb electorate that likes Obama, I probably can never understand your ‘intellegent arguments’. Maybe you can dumb it down for lil ol me sometime. But I forget, you explained in another post that you don’t like to discuss things with folks who disagree with you. You prefer to keep it ‘light’. So, maybe a light, dumber version for me.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Um Cara, In response:
Melissa said:
You obviously just want to call everyone names
All the name calling really is tiresome, isn’t it?
his “too dumb” elecorate will understand
Uh oh.
I wasn’t calling the electorate “too dumb”, I was eluding he thinks of you that way.
Has no one on the liberal side never read Atlas Shrugged?
Sure, back in the 9th grade. I went through an Ayn Rand phase, I read most of her stuff. All that Objectivism hoo-ha. I agree with some of it, disagree with some of it. I didn’t buy her argument about empathy in ‘The Virtue of Selfishness’, for example. Anyway, why do you ask?
Did you read the whole paragraph? I asked because it is relevant to the topic of income re-distribution…even though Obama doesn’t want to call it that, that is what it is.
bothers me that the left just can’t comprehend what liberty and freedom truly cost.
Well, I’m sorry, that is my belief, based on the actions of most liberals that I know. In response to your post that I NEED to discuss politics with my liberal friends…we have tried and it just ends up souring what would have been a good time with each other. I think they are stubborn and set in their ways, and I’m sure they think the same of me, so for the sake of our friendship, we don’t discuss it. We can joke about it, and we throw jabs each others’ way, and we all laugh about it, but there are no serious discussions, because it never leads anywhere, and I would rather keep my friends (and their children, as they happen to be my children’s friends), so we just agree to disagree. I’m sorry if you find that sad, it’s just the way it is.
Oh dear
. If it weren’t for people like my father and brother, this whole country would be speaking German, or living under the flag of Japan, or Iraq, or North Korea, or Iran, or Afghanistan.
Sure, or my grandfather, father, brother, nephew, niece, etc… It really is an arrogant assumption to think that only those folks who agree with you politically appreciate our troops. As I pointed out in another post, you seem to think people who disagree with military policy of Bush and McCain don’t appreciate the people who have to carry out those policies. Why is that? Where do you get that idea?
I get that idea from the war protesters I still see all the time. The people I have seen how spout on and on about facisim, and peace, all the while attacking military personnel, and/or their families. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Maybe you feel the majority of the left is not that way, but from what I see, the “pig blood” people are still around.
Well, maybe that gave you something to stir on for a little while, and you will listen to my “intelligent arguments”. We’ll see
Bah. I’m part of that dumb electorate that likes Obama, I probably can never understand your ‘intellegent arguments’. Maybe you can dumb it down for lil ol me sometime. But I forget, you explained in another post that you don’t like to discuss things with folks who disagree with you. You prefer to keep it ‘light’. So, maybe a light, dumber version for me.
Maybe you won’t, maybe you will. I never said I didn’t like to discuss things with folks who disagree with me. I said that I didn’t like to discuss politics with one set of friends, because I knew the outcome.
This is a classic example of how easily thoughts can be misconstrued and people can be taken out of context.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:42 am
I get that idea from the war protesters I still see all the time. The people I have seen how spout on and on about facisim, and peace, all the while attacking military personnel, and/or their families. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Maybe you feel the majority of the left is not that way, but from what I see, the “pig blood” people are still around.
The war protesters are a pretty small percentage of liberals. The percentage of war protesters who are = to the ‘pig blood’ people are a tiny percentage of war protesters. Those folks FOX kept showing at the conventions, for example, were mostly anarchists, not liberals.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:18 am
From Melissa…
No one wants to live in a tyrannical, world where they are force-fed one idea and one school of thought. Isn’t it ironic, that this is the world Obama will lead us to, should he be elected.
Yes, I do wonder how you can make such a claim, because it is clearly unfounded, if not insane. Obama’s voting record? Nothing out of the ordinary, quite liberal, but then to most people ‘liberal’ is not a poisonous word. Likewise, I guess, people of your mindset find the word ‘neocon’ harmless, where most of us shudder at the thought of the PNAC philosophy that has led you into an unwinnable war where the only possible outcome is a much more dangerous middle east than before your leaders attacked. Please don’t give me all the tripe about WMDs, ‘freedom on the move’ etc. The Rumsfeld/Cheney/Feith/Perle types made it quite clear even before the 2000 election that was the game-plan and when 9/11 happened it was like manna from heaven for them. Immediately they were demanding a connection to Saddam, an excuse to attack him. The same frigging day, before the dust even settled. How sick was that?
“I do look at their associations, and I look to see, as much as possible, how they’ve lived their own lives. No one is perfect, we make mistakes, we are all human, after all.”
Right, so a low level acquaintanceship with Ayers, similar to that which thousands of others (including many Republicans) have had with the man, plus both being board members of a charitable organization set up by a Republican, justifies your insane claim that Obama will bring you a ‘tyrannical world where they are force-fed one idea and one school of thought’.
Or was it his choice of church, a church where he mixed with thousands of his constituents, where nutty things were said at times (by a decorated US Marine), but where they concentrated on good works, redemption and the usual stuff 99% of the time?
Surely it can’t have been that, not when McCain has played the church card so often and so cynically over the last few years. Suddenly a Baptist, just when he needed the fundie hordes behind him? Oops – forgot about the baptism bit – fairly central to the Baptist faith, I believe…
Calling Robertson and Falwell ‘agents of intolerance’ when they backed Bush in 2000, then praising them after they blamed the American people for bringing on 9/11? That was an impressive flip, for sure.
Then of course there was the sucking up to the nutjob fundievangelists this year. Remind me again of those charming quotes from Hagee and Parsley, McCain’s ‘moral compasses’…
Give us some substance before you fling the mud at Obama and ignore the trail of viciousness and outright lies that McCain has left behind. The ‘Self-Appointed Messiah’ indeed. Just plain nasty, Melissa.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:41 am
I have NEVER seen war protesters attacking military personnel.
I HAVE seen retired military personnel, who were war protesters, though.
Two headlines:
Local Obama supporter victim of vandalism, theft
By KEN BLACK, TIMES-REPUBLICAN
But one Marshalltown family woke up on Christmas Eve having to deal with much more than baking pies and wrapping a few additional presents.
Supporters of Barack Obama living on 25th Street reported a number of racial slurs and derogatory comments had been spray painted on their property. Further, the family’s Christmas presents were all stolen from a vehicle and a garage.
Chief Lon Walker confirms the police received the report Monday morning.
“We found vandalism to the house. When we got there, we found some racial things regarding presidential candidate Barack Obama,” he said.
AND
Car vandals aim at Liberal supporters
Brake lines cut, cars damaged at homes.
You COULD run these stories 24/7, and claim that:
THIS IS THE UGLY FACE OF THE GOP!!!, but it wouldn’t be any more accurate than picking perhaps 0.01% of protesters who get obnoxious and claiming they represent ALL .
The obscene, “God hates fags, Thank God for ieds don’t represent conservative Christians either.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:49 am
McCain has made mistakes as well, but for me, with my viewpoint, his non-mistakes more closely align with my viewpoint.
As I said, McCain has made mistakes as well, and I will re-iterate, his non-mistakes more closely align with my view. I don’t agree with the extreme right, the likes of Falwell and such, with their ridiculous allegations. however, it is just insane to me that the left thinks it’s okay to bash them, but not question the people on the extreme left…I can give you names, but it won’t matter, b/c you seem to be an extreme left winger yourself.
I see that all you can focus on are the same old, same old..WMDs, and religion. Bush made mistakes, I’ll be the first to admit that. One was in having “Rumsie” “guide” the direction of the war. It should have been handled quite differently. I think quite a few conservatives and Repbulicans will admit that. I find it so hypocritical those on the left think they make no mistakes and only want to point blame at those on the right. Of course, I’m sure you take that as a compliment.
And since you asked, yes part of my opinion of Obama is due to his associations with Ayers and Wright. Part of it is due to his voting record, which again, I disagree with, but you don’t, so that is your right to agree and my right to disagree. So be it…
I noticed you didn’t even touch my allegations on taxes. Do you not care? Do you not pay taxes? Maybe it just doesn’t bother you. Whatever…It does bother me when someone (Obama) tries to think I’m too dumb to understand his own lies. His whole view of the tax structure is wrong on so many levels. As I stated before:
When he says he will only raise corporate taxes, I hate to tell you, corporations don’t pay taxes…PEOPLE DO!!! The corporation may have their name on the check, but it will be passed down to the consumer. When he said he would cut capital gains taxes on corporations, um, again, corporations don’t pay capital gains taxes, they pay income taxes. I’m sorry to burst your utopian bubble, but it is the truth.
Then, he says he is only going to increase taxes on individuals and corporations who make more than 250K a year, and he doesn’t call it income re-distribution. Well, I hate to bring up this point, but let’s just pretend, that your theory works for a couple of years…you tax at the top, and distribute it to the bottom. Then, as years go on, the top starts looking around to say, “You know, those many years of medical school just aren’t worth the long hours, malpractice fees, and payroll/admin. costs, just to be taxed at a ridiculous rate. I think I’ll just quit, so I can be a bottom dweller and receive more than I make now…I think I’ll give up my once lucrative business, where I did pay my fair shar of taxes, contributed to society, and felt somewhat important, for all that I accomplished with my own hard work. I’ll just go somewhere and make minimum wage…hey everything here is free…all my benefits, no admin costs…what a deal”, so he calls his professional friends, and tells them all about it. After a while, they decide to do the same, and as time goes on there is no top level. What happenes to the taxes they were paying to support the bottom? So, what happens to the bottom, not to mention the fact that most of our prestigious professions are no longer around to treat sickness, reside over hearings, etc…society will crumble from within. Yes, it’s just a theory, but please explain to me how it won’t happen…I’m listening.
However, even though I asked you to refute that argument, I guess you won’t or can’t, so does that mean you forfeit? Tell me why I’m wrong…Can you?
Oh, and about the whole “Self-appointed Messiah”….I didn’t coin that term, the media (albeit, probably the “right wingers like Fox News” have been using it through the whole campaign, but I think it fits for someone who had to have his own Presidential seal created for his own Greek facade. Maybe I’m wrong about him and he’s more truthful than I give him credit for, the use of a facade eludes to the fallacy his presidency will be.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:13 am
When people say things like:
“I see that all you can focus on are the same old, same old..”
Isn’t that like saying, “You smoked for 30 years, now you have lung cancer, and your kid smokes, but we won’t go back to your smoking as a cause, because that’s the same old, same old.”
We just keep making the same mistakes, because nobody wants to look backwards?
October 6th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Melissa opines:
Melissa, I’m working so don’t have much time to get into details, but…
You are creating a false view of what Obama is proposing. For your scenario to make sense, there would need to be a 100% tax at the higher levels of pay. Nobody has proposed any such thing. i.e. for this to be true:
I think I’ll just quit, so I can be a bottom dweller and receive more than I make now
One would actually have to be taxed more than 100% at the higher income levels. The more $$$ you earn, the more $$$ you keep, under any proposed tax plan.
For a person who is so sure Obama is lying, and offended by that ‘fact’, you play fairly fast and loose with the truth yourself. I don’t think you are lying, but you are certainly exaggerating.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Oh, I see, Melissa…how very silly of me. You can call Obama ‘The Self-Appointed Messiah’ because Fox does. Total justification.
Huh?
And then you parrot the dopey comments about Greek pillars made by the Fox idiots when they were trying to find stuff to grizzle about at the convention. Greek columns that had nothing to do with Jesus, as it happens, but very like all those old buildings in, um, Washington. Come to think of it, just like the Greek pillars Dubya used to dress his stage in 2000.
Pathetic Melissa, desperate and pathetic.
As far as taxes are concerned, yes, the rich should pay more. ‘Trickle Down’ is a con-trick invented to suck the less wealthy fools into voting Republican because ‘the more rich people you have the better off the rest of you will be’. The term should be ‘Soak Up’.
Your case about people not wanting to better themselves because ‘What’s the use when I have to pay more tax’ is nonsense you have invented on the spot. Many countries around the world have much more steeply graduated tax systems than the US and it doesn’t have that effect at all. Mind you, they also have decent health and education systems and they get a lot closer to balancing their budgets too!
October 6th, 2008 at 9:45 am
On another note…
Dear God. The carnage at the market continues.
Trading on the Brazilian stock market has been halted, it is down so much.
Trading on the Russian stock market was halted earlier today after a 15% decline.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Those evil damned Democrats have a lot to answer for, Um.
:)
October 6th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Stupid Democrats
; )
October 6th, 2008 at 10:02 am
UM,
I am by no means an economist. However, Obama continues to claim that under his tax plan 95% of Americans will receive a tax cut. That is impossible considering 45% of Americans don’t even pay taxes.
Right now, workers in the bottom 40% for income earners pay little or no income tax. So how can someone pay less tax than zero? “refundable” tax credits, or my money goes to the guy down the street who makes less than me.
He is taking money from some taxpayers and giving it to others. That isn’t a tax break, that is welfare.
I am now quoting the Institute for Policy Innovation “Under Obama’s plan, these refundable tax credits are targeted to those who pay little or nothing in federal income taxes.”
I am now quoting the Congressional Budget Office: “data shows teh bottom 40 percent of income earners already pay no federal income taxes. Instead, they receive a net payment from the federal income tax system (I.e, actual taxpayers) equal to 3.8 percent of all federal income taxes, because of already existing refundalbe tax credits”
Now I am not a rocket scientist, but this doesn’t sound like tax reform to me. It is the opposite of tax reform…it INCREASES welfare.
He says he wants to lower capital gains tax to help businesses, but businesses don’t pay capital gains they do pay income tax. Most small businesses fall into the category that will have their taxes raise (250,000 and up).
I don’t know about where you live, but we have small businesses closing their doors where I live. If he raises taxes more will follow suit.
And this business that paying higher taxes is patriotic is a bunch of, for lack of a better word, HOOHAA. I think the taxes we were paying to the British that started the Revolutionary War were much lower than the taxes we pay today.
The idea that upper-income Americans aren’t doing their party is absurd. The top 5 percent of earners account for 37 percent of American income, but pay 60% of income tax. Does Senator Biden question the patriotism of the 40% who pay nothing in taxes?
The ironic part is this: our government revenue grows the most when taxes are kept low across the board. When people at all wage levels keep more of their money they can invest, spend and create new businesses/grow businesses/create new jobs.
October 6th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Sarah Palin does draw larger crowds than John…but, the “elephant man” got big crowds, too.
Her “I’ve got a list…” approach reminds me of someone else…he used the line, “Are you, or were you ever…”
Yep, old “Tail Gunner Joe”….
The result seems to be in the votes…and those votes don’t seem to be going the way of the 2008 version of McCarthy.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:10 am
T. Mason said:
I am by no means an economist. However, Obama continues to claim that under his tax plan 95% of Americans will receive a tax cut. That is impossible considering 45% of Americans don’t even pay taxes.
Yea, he is proposing ‘tax credits’ for those folks not paying income taxes – he calls that a tax cut. I agree it is sloppy language to say it is a tax cut. Bush used similar language for his stimulus package. And I have whined before about the fact that I never got a stimulus check that the media kept saying ‘everyone’ would receive. There is way too much sloppy language by both parties, and the media.
He is taking money from some taxpayers and giving it to others. That isn’t a tax break, that is welfare.
In the case of the tax credits, where people get money back, that they have not paid – much like Bush’s stimulus package, I don’t like it much either. See below about the folks who supposedly don’t pay taxes.
And this business that paying higher taxes is patriotic is a bunch of, for lack of a better word, HOOHAA.
I like the word hoo ha too : )
But it is patriotic to pay taxes, I know the right likes to talk about ’supporting our troops’. I guess if we didn’t pay taxes they wouldn’t have stuff like body armor. As Biden pointed out in the debate, Americans who set up off shore accounts in order to avoid taxes are unpatriotic. I fully agree with him. I have an offshore account – the U.S. govt knows about it, I am not hiding any income. It would be unpatriotic to do so.
Does Senator Biden question the patriotism of the 40% who pay nothing in taxes?
Nope, see the above scenario he was describing. Plus, like many have pointed out – corporations paying taxes pass those taxes down to consumers, thus those 40% ‘not paying taxes’, are in fact paying taxes when they buy stuff. It is why I don’t have a problem w/ taxing corporations, it is a way of taxing folks based on their consumption.
Anyway, I don’t like tax credits, you and I agree on that point. But on the whole, I agree with Obama’s policies more than I agree with McCain’s.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Melissa:
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0407d.asp
Admittedly, a 2004 article, but illustrates the majority, or slim & useless minority, of the Republicans during the last 13 years. Written by a disillusioned conservative, by the way.
You brought up Christianity in the first place. I didn’t fixate on it at all, I merely questioned what you wrote.
My observation of your childish overuse of emoticons and exclamation points wasn’t so much a commentary on what you deem my “less than sunny disposition” (talk about name-calling and getting personal, by the way), but rather, surprise because most PhDs I know are more professional than that. I’m not envious, I’m just curious. What’s it in, anyway? Did you dot the “I’s” in your dissertation with little hearts? (I’m pulling your leg– Really, I congratulate you on your advanced degrees. It’s unfortunate that some have denigrated higher education on here).
Regarding the Oklahoma City Bombing– I bring it up because Neocons like yourself seem to be so afraid of a failed ’60s radical, and they talk about how The Weathermen spoke of bombing federal buildings. Well, it’s necessary to point out, many of the leaders of the Republicans’ so-called Culture War, are the very ones who defend the bombing of the Alfred P Murrah building in Oklahoma. Truth2Power, for instance, defended those actions by claiming it was retaliation for Waco & Ruby Ridge, incidents in which a cult and militia person trained guns on the law of the land.
The Oklahoma City Bombing, and the fact that right-wing militias are still harbored in the Republican Party, has every bit to do with the current election. They have proven much more effective, widespread, and radical than the long-defunct Weathermen ever thought about being.
As for your “Yes, it’s just a theory, but please explain to me how it won’t happen…I’m listening.” Melissa, I can assure you, cutting taxes hasn’t worked either, and neither has deregulating Wall Street– do you see that business owners are already folding their tents? So I can tell you, based on the tax cuts under Reagan and Bush 1, they don’t work so well, either.
You misunderstood me, by the way– I applaud Bush1 for increasing taxes, which ultimately created more economic prosperity for the country, felt by citizens AND corporations. That’s how I know it works. You said it yourself, Bush1 created a more vital economy.
Ultimately, it’s bad behavior that costs the most. We need to get tougher. The CEOs who screwed the pooch should be thrown in jail. Frankly, I’d like to see them get the chair, but I realize that might be seen as a little drastic.
Incidentally, no other developed country allows CEOs to be compensated so obscenely, whether they’re competent or incompetent. I wish the Republicans would stop weeping for the rich so much, but I understand it’s ingrained in the “culture” they want to “war” on us.
October 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Ah, just read the rest of the recent missives.
Melissa, you need to go back and re-read your posts. You say you weren’t making a big deal about your religion, but you did, check it out. You say you weren’t crowing about your PhD, but you volunteered it twice. I mean, bully for you, and all, but you’re claiming that both attributes of yours are being brought up and focused on by others, when that’s not true. You’re the one parading it to establish some sort of credibility.
Then you assert that you don’t attack people personally, only philosophies, beliefs, ideas– the important intangibles in life. Yet to John, you say, “Moron. Typical liberal…,” etc.
When you say, “I guess tolerance only works one way with the democratic party,” you’re right, to a point — Democrats are hard-pressed to tolate the INTOLERANT, intolerance being a fairly accurate characterization of today’s evangelical leaders. Why would a people tolerate religious leaders who seek to insert their own, single religion into every taxpayer-supported, public facet of our American society, out of disrespect to the many other religions that make up our great country? That’s Christian jihad, make no mistake.
October 6th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Lovely response, Sarah. I can actually tolerate the out-and-out NOBAMA/MUSLIM/TERRORIST/COMMUNIST crowd more than the semi-intellectuals that start from the same hateful premises and construct what they think are clever arguments to justify them. At least the blind shouters are saying fairly clearly “Just ignore me. Don’t tell me them facts cos I ain’t listenin’. I am a racist and/or fundie nutjob and I’d pawn my mother before I voted for a scary, uppity nigra”.
Melissa, though, irritates the crap out of me with her faux-intellectual screeds that, when boiled down, actually say the same hateful things.
What the hell though… it’s all over. The little film on YouTube called ‘Keating Economics’ absolutely nails McCain to the wall. The parallels between his corrupt actions in shielding Keating and the current deregulation mess (which he was still advocating in March) are so strong there will be no undecideds after the 13 or so minutes it takes to view.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
The only thing that is being said about Sarah Palin now is that she is attacking Barack Obama. This is a desperation ploy. They are losing and are in attack character mode. All of these topics were discussed months ago. It is tired and old. What do you have to offer other than attacks?
October 6th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
“T. Mason” and “Melissa” really have you guys going. More power to them!!!!
All of you liberals with you false intelligence should just move to Europe because then everything would be set up in just the socialist way you want it, but then what would you have to cry about?
October 6th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Drill: “T. Mason and Melissa really have you guys going.”
They get us going, but they don’t get very far. Kind of like Republicans and conservatives in general today.
They like divisiveness, exaggeration, and communication akin to that of a WWF match.
I hope Melissa tells us what her PhD is in, and where she got it. I’d be interested to know.
October 7th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Sarah,
They like divisiveness, exaggeration, and communication akin to that of a WWF match.
Seems to me that would be you. After reading through a few of these posts, most of the conservatives have been respectful. It is you and your Nazi friends who have been the name callers and flame throwers…but what the h*&*, do you know about civil obedience anyway?
I hope Melissa tells us what her PhD is in, and where she got it. I’d be interested to know…
Who cares where she got it or what it’s in? You are the one who has mentioned it over and over. It seems she has answered every question you have asked her.
I would like to know where B. Hussein Obama got his birth certificate… The same forgers who worked for Dan Rather, or perhaps the pederast who peddled out the Chinese Gymnastic Team?
They get us going, but they don’t get very far. Kind of like Republicans and conservatives in general today.
Oh, I see. Considering all of the “dirt” you have on McCain and Palin why aren’t Barry and his cronies running away with this election?
Don’t bother with your lame answers, I know your going to try and subject your “intellectual superiority” on me, so I really have more important things to do, like clean my gun.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Drill: “After reading through a few of these posts, most of the conservatives have been respectful. It is you and your Nazi friends who have been the name callers and flame throwers”
Oh. You mean respectful like your last little line? I think that sums your attitude up nicely.
“Who cares where she got it or what it’s in? You are the one who has mentioned it over and over. It seems she has answered every question you have asked her.”
Uh, not really. She took most of her initial posts as an opportunity to trash talk and talk about “intelligence,” as in “liberals don’t have any” and “I’d like an intelligent conversation.” She placed quite a premium on smarts, so it roused my curiosity to ask what it was in. Strange that you and she are so defensive of her PhD.
And, if I had to offer an explanation as to why Obama/Biden aren’t running away with this election, I guess you’d have to take a look at the slim margins that have been happening for the past 8 years.
The country is polarized. And today’s Republican Party is filled with a lot of people who can’t, or don’t want to, think for themselves. Because if they do, they’re ostracized– like Noonan, Dole, and Goldwater were, because they weren’t Neocon enough.
My mother and father look askance at evangelists, see the necessity of keeping Roe v. Wade, are concerned about the environment, and think gun restrictions need to make access harder– but they’ll vote Republican because they just “always have.”
I daresay there are “always have” voters in the Democratic Party, but the voodoo the GOP has used to lure many across — pretending to be Christian, in favor of lower taxes, free enterprise, etc. — and the fact baby-boomers are getting older, crabbier, and more easily frightened, is beginning to wear off, it appears.
I hope so. I’m bored with the Age of Rage. It accomplishes very little.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Go Drill!
As you Liberals you have pathetically displayed on this “Blog”, you have once again displayed your inability to defend yourselves.
If you cannot defend yourself, how can you be expected to defend others if you’re put in charge?
No thanks! History has proven that you cower in the face of aggression, and always will…
Please answer me this: If your way of thinking was soooo dynamic and soooo what this country needs, then please explain why Obama (and every other Dem running for any office in the past half-century) runs as a Centrist? And please don’t respond back with “they’re trying to connect with the undecided voters….
What you should do, if you have a moral bone in your body, is to be honest about who you are when you run for office.
You won’t, of course, because you know that Middle America and the South will reject anything that even smells like Liberalism. You know this as fact, don’t deny it.
The stone-cold truth is that 40%+ of Americans identify themselves as Conservative, while ONLY 20%+ identify themselves as Liberals. The rest are undecideds and members of independent parties.
You are, and will continue to be, woefully weak and outnumbered.
Hoo-Rah and Semper Fi!!
October 7th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Yo Red:
Please answer me this: If your way of thinking was soooo dynamic and soooo what this country needs, then please explain why Obama (and every other Dem running for any office in the past half-century) runs as a Centrist?
Because almost everyone thinks they are centrist.
Now, Red, answer me this:
Why is Obama so far ahead in the polls?
Oh, and…
Hoo-Rah
Semper Fi
E pluribus unum
Obi One Kanobe
October 7th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
LOL Um Cara!!! Obi One Kanobe, good one.
October 7th, 2008 at 7:28 pm