Lest there be any doubt about who’s been running things in this country, Glenn Greenwald (who’s on radio with me Monday night) has a chart that neatly explains who’s run various branches of government between 2001 and now.
The right-wing playbook is to blame the other side for its own mistakes. It’s not going to work this time.
Hey, even the Pope agreed with Um Cara as long ago as 1993.
Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/vaticanview.html
And yep, Shel Silverstein wrote the lyrics to Cash’s “Boy Named Sue.” He also wrote an ABC book for adults that was pretty hilarious.
Yep, America, there was a time when a guy could write good stuff for country singers, children (Where the Sidewalk Ends) AND be a Playboy contributor without everyone going batshi+ crazy in a moral spazz-out.
RIP, Shel & Johnny.
I dunno, Lou Dobbs was sounding pretty good last night. He wasn’t taking any guff from either party.
~Sarah- Too true. Maybe we could come up with a good write in candidate?
~John- Please, please enlighten me so as to not be so stupid in the future.
Only registered user allowed |
Excuse me Alan, but I see a lot of the color red in the above chart. Red = Commie. Therefore, this chart clearly shows that the communist liberals are responsible for all of the countries ills. Please correct the erroneous text to match the proper color coding.
Thank You.
October 6th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Cheryl Carroll – HUH?
Did you just awaken from a 20 year Rip VanWinkle sleep? You are not aware of the Red States/Blue States? Seems like you are saying all the Red States are commie?
I don’t think anything ‘clearly shows’ for you.
October 6th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Great graph. It doesn’t take into account the Republican control during Clinton’s administration, though.
One of the conservatives on here recently took me to task for allegedly refusing to acknoweledge that Clinton & the GOP worked together, and that I didn’t give Republicans credit for much of the good accomplished under the Clinton administration.
I guess that would be because most of the Republican effort back then seemed more intent on shutting down gov’t, or digging up dirt on the Clintons, and generally wrecking the country’s long-term future with things like NAFTA and the deregulated mortgage lending.
October 6th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Who knew that the Liberal Creationism theory would assert that the US is a mere 8 years old?
The tragedy is that with schools sucking as bad as they do, this graph is morally equivalent to history.
You win!
October 6th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Actually, HOPEFORCHANGE, Cheryl does have a point– the Republicans are seeming more “red” Commie every day.
They tap our phones with impunity, like the KGB. We’re at war with Afghanistan.
The gov’t has created a socialist economy.
Dissent is roundly squelched, election speeches are choreographed for “friendliness” to candidates, and “pre-emptive” arrests are made (remember the RNC).
The spending by Republicans has NEVER been more liberal, only the citizenry actually has seen precious little return on their federal investment, because it’s doled out to “friends” of the gov’t.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
“Who knew that the Liberal Creationism theory would assert that the US is a mere 8 years old?
The tragedy is that with schools sucking as bad as they do, this graph is morally equivalent to history.”
OK, let’s go back to the Nixon administration then, when schools really began to suck.
Let’s see.
NIXON, NIXON (who actually increased spending, but social upheaval and the war exacted heavy tolls), FORD, carter, REAGAN, REAGAN (ketchup’s a vegetable! Western Civ’s the best! Republicans are the best, kids! funding declines!), BUSH (no real initiatives for the ‘education president’, except those that would debase education), clinton (enter: Republican hits on schools– see list below), clinton, BUSH (”no child left behind, only the funding to accomplish anything!”), BUSH.
And let’s see, how do today’s Republicans want to “support” schools? Where do they concentrate their efforts on education?
By sucking funding from public schools and giving it to private ones,
By turning public schools into Sunday Schools,
By dumbing down math, science and technology in order to support the Bible, and
By abolishing non-conservative ideas and thoughts in our nation’s universities and colleges.
Eisenhower-Nixon actually improved schools as we know them today. Unfortunately, they’re under great attack by the Republican Party who seeks to divide, rather than unite, America.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
“They tap our phones with impunity, like the KGB. We’re at war with Afghanistan.”
***They tap your phone if you have terrorist ties, or are suspected of being a terrorist yourself. My phone or anyone else’s phone that I know has ever been tapped to my knowledge. Don’t gripe about not being safe if you aren’t willing to let the government do what is necessary to protect you.
The gov’t has created a socialist economy
*****The government is comprised of both dems and repubs, so I guess you would fault your party as well since they voted for the stimulus package too?
“One of the conservatives on here recently took me to task for allegedly refusing to acknoweledge that Clinton & the GOP worked together, and that I didn’t give Republicans credit for much of the good accomplished under the Clinton administration.”
***That’s right. If you are going to give credit to Clinton, then give credit to the repubs who reached
across party lines and helped the dems during the 90’s. The last time I checked, the president doesn’t do it all on his own. For good or bad.
“and the deregulated mortgage lending.”
You are absolutely right. Under the Clinton administration the CRA was made even MORE lax allowing for MORE predatory lending and LESS government oversight. Some of the dems who pushed that through included Barney Frank.
****
October 6th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
As far as schools go, if your child goes to a public school that SUCKS you should have the option to send them to a private one. You don’t have a problem with ME paying for YOU to choose which doctor you go to, so you shouldn’t have a problem with any parent choosing which school is best for their child.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Sarah,
What does communism have to do with this chart? What point does Cheryl have in regards to the red on this chart? Are you also saying the red on the chart refers to communism? UGH!!!
October 6th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Hope… she was joking…
October 6th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
“They tap your phone if you have terrorist ties, or are suspected of being a terrorist yourself. My phone or anyone else’s phone that I know has (n)ever been tapped to my knowledge.”
There are a couple of problems with this general view.
1) Police are not psychics. The CIA can’t read your mind. You might in all innocence do something, or some combination of things, to attract the attention of law enforcement or Homeland Security. If you just talk who’s under suspicion they’ll be wondering about you too.
2) No one has your own personal best interests in mind. The people fighting the war are terror are hunting for “the enemy.” If you meet the criteria, they take you away. And as the record makes clear, they don’t need a warrant, and they don’t have to arrest you, or charge you with a crime, or provide you with an attorney, or even admit that they have you in custody. Tomorrow you could just disappear.
3) You won’t know if your phone’s been tapped unless you’re using the electronics to detect a tap. And if you’re using electronics like that the government is going to wonder what you’re trying to hide. It doesn’t matter that you’ve got nothing to hide. All that matters is they think you have something to hide.
4) Do you have security software on your computer? It might stop hackers but it won’t stop the government. Companies like Symantec and McAfee build backdoors into their software specifically for the use of our government. They could be scanning your harddrive and you’ll never know it.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
STOP PRESS
It’s all over folks. The mini-documentary KEATING ECONOMICS absolutely nails McCain. Even Fox is playing segments from it. The man is toast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g72BuIvMbWY
Goodnight wingbats.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
RC, I have nothing to worry about. I can sleep soundly tonight. At least we haven’t been attacked on American soil since 9/11. We must be doing something right.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
No, HopeforChange! Uh-uh. No, I know Red is Rep. and Blue is Dem.
I was just pointing out some of the commonalities between the Republicans and the Russians, which T Mason just can’t seem to accept (”Golly gee! I’m sure the gov’t is only tapping the bad guys’ phone!”).
October 6th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I don’t understand the supreme court line – how do you claim democrat/republican control of the supreme court?
October 6th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Oh brother. I’ve been away too long if anyone here is able to accuse me of being for the other side.
It was sarcasm, sir. Sarcasm.
Back me up, Big A.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
btw John and Sarah, I appreciate that you two were able to see the joke and laugh with me. I’m sure that McCain’s brother would have found it HILARIOUS.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
“RC, I have nothing to worry about. I can sleep soundly tonight. At least we haven’t been attacked on American soil since 9/11. We must be doing something right.”
Yes, T, it sure was a great idea to send all those young boys and girls on a pointless adventure to Iraq to make easier targets for al Qaeda. So cunning! Why would they bother trying to attack Americans IN America when it’s so much easier and more convenient to blow them to bits in Baghdad?
October 6th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
McKee, I agree. That’s the most despicable part of this war. “Let’s hold our best and brightest out on sticks like meat puppets over in Iraq, and then Al Quaeda will flock to where they are, for our own safety over here.”
Did anyone see the 60 Minutes piece on the Delta Force agent whose operatives were THIS CLOSE to finding Osama bin Laden, yet they found it difficult to overcome the obstacles and subterfuges created by our own gov’t?
My friends, we’ve been had. And I, for one, CANNOT sleep soundly about that. I find it difficult to sleep soundly at all when men and women are being killed in the Middle East.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Sarah~ If they tried to turn public school into Sunday school, the ACLU and Jessie Jackson etc. would be up in arms. Dumbing down Math, Science and Technology to support the Bible???? Where do you live that this is happening? And abolishing non-conservative ideas in university’s….boy if the Republicans had that much power then abortion would be no more. Get real.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Lota red on that chart in key areas. Crisis situtations don’t happen overnight.
Just read about some home grown terrorists…..they use bombs right here in America. Pretty scary folks…they kill Americans. Americans killing Americans…the worst kind of terrorism.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Who are those terrorists? They bomb abortion clinics….and who defends them?
From the Huffington:
“McCain has repeatedly voted against protecting Americans from domestic terrorists in the anti-choice movement. On multiple occasions throughout his career, McCain sought to limit the government’s ability to punish violent anti-choice fanatics by:
– Voting against making anti-choice violence a federal crime. As the Jed Report notes, McCain voted in 1993 and 1994 against making “bombings, arson and blockades at abortion clinics, and shootings and threats of violence against doctors and nurses who perform abortions” federal crimes.
– Opposing Colorado’s “Bubble Law.” McCain said he opposed Colorado’s “Bubble Law,” which prohibited abortion protesters from getting within 8 feet of women entering clinics [Denver Post, 2/27/00]. The law was later upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.
– Voting to allow those fined for violence at clinics to avoid penalties by declaring bankruptcy. NARAL Pro-Chioce America notes that McCain “voted to allow perpetrators of violence or harassment at reproductive-health clinics to avoid paying the fines assessed against them for their illegal acts by declaring bankruptcy.”
October 6th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
how nice to have it all blue in the house and senate the past two years to jack everything up for the republican presidential hopefull. if that chart were all red, it would stay red for 10 more years.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
sure….this thing took far more than two years to cook before boiling over.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Sarah and John,
We have nothing in common with the russians. You are blinded by your hatred for a political party. Comparing republicans to russians? You are way out of line. If you are having trouble with your conscience by all means pick up a rifle and enlist.
Our best and brightest VOLUNTEER to serve their country, to do something that requires courage, honor and dignity, perserverance and love of something greater than self. THEY CHOOSE to do that.
I wouldn’t expect you to understand that since you believe they are being sacrificed for NOTHING and that they are doing so in service of a country like russia.
Have you spoken to any of the soldiers who come back from Iraq? How about Afghanistan? Do you know that a lot of men and women WANT to go back to finish what they have started? We have a friend who did two tours only to go back as civilian contractor. We have a friend who is in special forces that has been involved one way or another since 2001. The truth is, progress is being made but you won’t admit that. The truth is, war is hell and most of us don’t have a freakin clue. The truth is, I do feel safe at night knowing I have the U.S. military fighting to keep my family safe.
YOur commments degrade/beliitle/trivialize what they are doing. Can’t you find a better way to spew the hate that you obviously have for the right?
How very sad. You make me sick.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Remember – blue and red mixed together make purple… so that means Democrat, Republican or somewhere in between… we’re in this together!
The mess this nation is in is a disgrace to all the men and women who have fought so hard for her. I say send them all packing in November and let’s see some indictments for the greedy, sorry excuses of human flesh that caused all this – regardless of their party affiliation – they’ve succeeded in doing what the radical Islamists have only dreamed of! We need to kick some white collar terrorists where it hurts the most – their wallet and then throw their sorry rumps in Pelican Bay!
October 6th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Once again, dear simple T, you flail about with this faux patriotism crap and avoid the questions. You are so impressed that there have been no more 9/11s. The al Qaeda nutcases themselves express their gratitude for you starting a BS war and sending thousands of nice young Americans to the mid east where it is so much easier to slaughter them.
For the billionth time, nobody is denigrating the troops. Can that not penetrate your dull skull? We are opposed to the criminals that sent them there to die for no reason whatsoever except to fulfil the mad-headed agenda of the PNAC. The big winner is Iran, always has been since you ripped the scab off the sore. Is that really what you wanted? Did you need to kill all those young Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis just to extend the influence of the ayotollahs?
Those kids are not in Iraq to protect America. No way in the world. All you are doing is ensuring even more Muslims will grow to hate you so much they’ll gladly give their lives to damage you.
For Jesus’ sake, think woman. Connect the dots and stop trying to justify Bush and his bastards.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
the best defense is a good offense, a concept liberals cant seem to grasp
October 6th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
JOhn,
I can assure you, my patriotism isn’t crap and it isn’t fake. I have a husband who served for over 16 years, so don’t question my patriotism.
I am not killing americans. MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALISTS are killing americans. And yes, you are denegrating their service. You are saying they are dying in vain.
You sir, are blinded by your hate for a political party. that’s it, pure and simple.
John, do you not realize that muslims who are the Jihadist’s don’t hate us simply because we are in Iraq and Afghanistan? When have they ever liked us? Who do they like other than other muslims? Who?
They hate ANYONE who is not like them. They hate us for everything we are, and everything we are not. That may be something you can’t grasp but it is a fact. They cut off heads, hands, skin people, burn people, rape women and children, stone women I could go on and on. YOu think people who partake in that are going to get warm fuzzies if we curl up and pacify them?
I don’t know anyone, including myself who “love them a good war”. Sadly enough wars are sometimes necessary. Unless you want our country to crumble and blow away.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Full of it, T, absolutely full of it…
October 6th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
I think it’s marvelous that you know so much about the muslims who hate us. You should go to work for the government since they have proven to know so little.
As for the charges of lack of patriotism, Barrak’s religious preference, his acquaintences over his entire life…it is all old news. For the past 18 months the media has scoured his past and record. The nastiest of the nasty have gone after him. What did they find out that we haven’t already heard? If he were dangerous, we would already know it. If he were a terrorist, we’d already know it. He’s not a terrorist. He doesn’t “pal around” with terrorists. It’s all old news…and dumb. It it were important, we’d already know it…..get it? It even feels like old news when Sarah, Barbie on Crack, Palin preaches to the choir in republican strongholds in Nebraska, California, and Florida (don’t get excited, not the whole state…just a small part of it…except Nebraska…it’s all small there). She still isn’t ready for “prime time”….she remains a card carrying member of the Not Ready For Prime Time Players.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I truely amazes me how someone can defend the muslim religion and question someones patriotism in the same sentence. Can you honestly tell me that the world is not in better shape since the removal of Saddam. For whatever reason you chose the world is a much better place. The so called criminals who sent our military over are trying to spread democracy and freedom around the world so people can like you can say whatever (twisted and sick) you want to.
McCain/Palin 08
October 7th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Gayle: “If they tried to turn public school into Sunday school, the ACLU and Jessie Jackson etc. would be up in arms.”
They are. So are Americans United Against the Separation of Church and State.
“Dumbing down Math, Science and Technology to support the Bible???? Where do you live that this is happening?”
In the Bible-Belt part of the Midwest. Evolution is taking great hits as parents disrupt ALL children’s education to ram ID down everyone’s throats. Classroom time is taken up by passing out Bibles. And the parochial schools belonging to the evangelists produce students who are extremely ill-prepared when they get to public high school or college — unless they attend evangelist universities and colleges.
“And abolishing non-conservative ideas in university’s….boy if the Republicans had that much power then abortion would be no more.”
Exactly, thank goodness they DON’T have that much power, but you can bet they’re doing everything they can to push a “Culture War” on the American public that creates divisiveness, anger, willful misunderstanding, miscommunication and just plain old misery.
October 7th, 2008 at 10:45 am
T Mason: “We have nothing in common with the russians. You are blinded by your hatred for a political party.”
The same could be said when conservatives allege liberals are all commies. That you refuse to see any parallels means you are blinded by your own hatred as well. And frankly, I’ll insist to this day, I’m a moderate. I can see communistic tendencies in both parties. It’s just hilarious how you deny that those things happened because of YOUR party.
“Comparing republicans to russians? You are way out of line. If you are having trouble with your conscience by all means pick up a rifle and enlist.”
T, sometimes you sound just like an old biddy. If you think the war’s so great, why don’t YOU put your money where your big mouth is, and get your butt over to Iraq?
“Our best and brightest VOLUNTEER to serve their country, to do something that requires courage, honor and dignity, perserverance and love of something greater than self. THEY CHOOSE to do that.”
No shi+, Sherlock. You’d think the Republican Congress would’ve supported them better, especially when they came back all broken and bloody.
“I wouldn’t expect you to understand that since you believe they are being sacrificed for NOTHING and that they are doing so in service of a country like russia.”
Are you for real? Are you really so unaware of history that you didn’t KNOW about the Soviet War in Afghanistan? Did you not watch ANY news in the 1980s? Or even read about it? Do me a favor, Google it so you realize how stupid your inference sounds.
Your emotional bloviating, your refusal to acknowledge the parallels between today’s Republican administration and the old Communist regime (I only put out a few, so come on– just ADMIT it, for pete’s sake), and your constant manufactured allegations that anyone liberal “hates god and the troops,” is more dishonest to the troops and to god than if anyone of the American people actually DID harbor any hate for either.
By insisting that Democrats or liberals “hate troops,” you’re more traitorous than you ever thought of us being.
“Have you spoken to any of the soldiers who come back from Iraq? How about Afghanistan?”
Darn skippy. Five of them. Three think it’s a load of crap, 1 wants to go back and finish the job, and 1 wants to go back and make money off the war.
“Do you know that a lot of men and women WANT to go back to finish what they have started? We have a friend who did two tours only to go back as civilian contractor. We have a friend who is in special forces that has been involved one way or another since 2001.”
Hey, maybe they’re the same guys!
“The truth is, progress is being made but you won’t admit that.”
No, you’re wrong. I have. Every time someone breaks the 8th Commandment and bears false witness about Barack Obama being a Muslim, I acknowledge that these days, we’re supposed to LOVE Muslims, since we’re building roads, schools, infrastructure, and setting up their government which has an incredible surplus lately.
While our economy is in the tank.
And you want us to stay over there indefinitely, with no end in sight to the cost of our economy and human lives (both domestic & abroad)? That’s your own brand of terrorism, on your own country.
“The truth is, war is hell and most of us don’t have a freakin clue. The truth is, I do feel safe at night knowing I have the U.S. military fighting to keep my family safe.”
Like I said, if holding troops out like meat puppets on a stick makes you feel better at night, it’s all on YOU. Again, if you’re so in love with this war, you definitely need to pick up a rifle as soon as possible. Hiding behind your HUSBAND’S service does NOT make you a patriot. “My husband served! That means I’m a patriot, too!” It’s pathetic. You want this war? You think it’s great? You’re the one who needs to enlist.
“YOur commments degrade/beliitle/trivialize what they are doing. Can’t you find a better way to spew the hate that you obviously have for the right? How very sad. You make me sick.”
I think it’s already been illustrated by several on here how your aspersions alleging our so-called “hatred of troops,” which your faction has manufactured, does MORE to undermine the troops, create divisiveness and betray the country.
If people on here make you sick, you should probably spend a little time away from the blog.
Truth is a bitter pill to swallow, but it might relieve the illness you feel.
October 7th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Rise’: “I say send them all packing in November and let’s see some indictments for the greedy, sorry excuses of human flesh that caused all this – regardless of their party affiliation – they’ve succeeded in doing what the radical Islamists have only dreamed of! We need to kick some white collar terrorists where it hurts the most – their wallet and then throw their sorry rumps in Pelican Bay!”
Rise’, we’ll probably vote for different people, but you’re a woman after my own heart.
October 7th, 2008 at 11:13 am
, “sometimes you sound just like an old biddy”
I will take that as a compliment coming from someone like you. I must really have your dander up. Have you ever taken a look at how you sound? Doubtful. It’s like the pot calling the kettle black. And I have noticed, have you, that anytime you disagree with someone you eventually call them a name. How very mature, insightful, and intelligent of you. If it makes you feel better go for it.
“and your constant manufactured allegations that anyone liberal “hates god and the troops”
I don’t have to make allegations. You run your mouth enough to make points for me. I am not hiding behind anyone’s service, dear. I didn’t know you took issue with a wife stating her husband served? The ONLY reason I brought that up was John questioned my patriotism. But I am proud to say I have a lot of family members who have served so that people like you can come on here and say whatever you want.
I don’t ever remember calling you a commie, but you obviously lump everyone into the same group. I only take responsibility for what I say and do, not every republican who visits this board. You don’t like it and neither do I. You do know the golden rule, right? Ever thought about actually trying to follow it? Or is that too close to being a fundie for ya?
And I remember stating, but you always read what you want to, that I don’t like war anymore than anyone else and I want them to come hom. BUT, you can’t fold up, tuck tail and run because you want it easy. Talk about giving the enemy fire. Yoy don’t give a specific date for withdrawl because you can’t.
I might add that Obama wants to send more to afghanistan, which we need to do. ARe you going to ram him for that? Is he a warmonger for wanting to send good men and women to get blown up in afghanistan?
I’ll tell you what demoralizes a young man/woman holding a rifle, driving a tank, standing gaurd in a war. A man running to be their commander in chief talking about how they are air-raiding villages, and people more worried about collateral damage than the safety of the men and women fighting for our side. And even people like you who compare the republican party, which includes military personnel too, as being commies.
I don’t care if you agree with me, or if you like me or my points of view. I don’t care if you think I am a biddy. I have just as much right to voice/express how I feel as you. So get over yourself.
October 7th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Golly, T. So chock-a-block with facts, and not emotion or opinion. You sure told me, even though you appear not to have read any of my posts.
I guess Obama is going to have to clean up the mess the Neocons made, so more bloodshed will be necessary so you can, what was it, “sleep at night.”
Get back to me after you Google “Soviet War in Afghanistan.” And after you’ve signed up to fight.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Sarah~ So if you don’t believe in evolution and you go to a parochial school you are “ill prepared” for high school and college? I went to a private Baptist school and I did just fine in high school and college. But thanks for your concern. I find it disheartening that we should only be offered one point of view….the liberal one.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Since when is science a “liberal” point of view?
October 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Since some believe that people and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Lefty~ not science, evolution. Remember it’s called the THEORY of evolution.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
LOL yeah, like the theory that everyone has a functioning brain when they are upright and conscious.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
That whole eveolution versus unintellegent theory is garbage. You can believe what you want, but just don’t try and put it into the schools. If you don’t like it, vote as you obviously have and then let things develop as they will.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Yea I know Robert anything opposite of what you view is garbage. Nice to see you are so tolerant of other people’s view.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Gayle, obviously you do not know what the word THEORY means in the scientific context. A theory is one which facts and experimentation seem to support. An HYPOTHESIS is an idea that is yet to proven.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
The whole creative design debate is laughable to anyone that has even a basic understanding of evolution and quantum mechanics possible role.
Once again, those on the right embrace belief over facts, and if the facts disagree with their carefully constructed world view, why then just ignore them.
It amazes me that right wingnuts avail themselves of the fruits of scientific investigation everyday, yet conveniently so it’s all crap when it contradicts something they believe and cannot justify with fact.
Sad, sad, sad.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Phillip~ Maybe you should go read a dictionary. All definitions of theory involve the word conjecture.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Is that all you dems know to do when someone doesn’t agree with their position, call them names? I thought your party was one of tolerance, but again you prove that to be wrong.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Gayle brings up a t i r e d point regarding the Theory of Evolution:
not science, evolution. Remember it’s called the THEORY of evolution.
Head throbbing… Must.. resist.. urge.. to.. get.. involved.. in.. another.. discussion.. about.. ‘intelligent design’ (the fancy new ’scientific’ sounding word for BS, I mean, creationism). Can’t.. fight it…must respond to this ignorance…
Gayle, we have the ‘theory of gravity’, that doesn’t mean that conjecture of gravity involving some supernatural power would be just as valid. The scientific use of the word ‘theory’ is different than the dictionary definition you are using.
Theories are based on more than conjecture. They are substantiated and supportable explanations for observations. Theories are the ‘how’ part of explaining a ‘law’ which is the ‘what’ part. I.e. the law of gravity says something like ’stuff falls to the ground when I drop it.’ Then someone thinks ‘Huh, that’s weird, I wonder why?.’ Then Newton comes along and gives us the theory of gravity. Then Einstein comes along later and gives an even better theory called the theory of relativity, that explains it in more detail, with more bells and whistles.
I can understand how you would be confused, the word ‘theory’ is used very differently in non scientific settings.
So, the ‘theory’ of evolution is a scientific theory, not just conjecture. It’s more complete name would be the ‘Theory of evolution by natural selection’. Who knows, some future Einstein may come along in the future with some new twists, turns, and refinements, not unlike the theory of relativity did with the theory of gravity.
But if we had just closed our eyes and said ’stuff drops to the ground because God wants it to’, we would have never landed a rocket on the moon.
I’d like to think if there is a God, he wanted us to land that rocket on the moon to take a good look at His creation. Why so many people are invested in the idea that He created the world in as boring a way as by saying ‘poof the world is created’ as opposed to something as cool and interesting as natural selection, I’ll never understand.
Look Gayle, in your view He is omniscient and omnipotent, right? Then he very well could have crashed a couple of real heavy atoms together billions of years ago and known that through natural selection, and all the physical laws that He defined, people would be created in His image. Right?
October 7th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Gayle, since the Democrats and liberals are the ones who promote multi-cultural literacy, instead of a single Culture War, it IS fair to say they represent tolerance.
What cannot be tolerated, paradoxically, is INtolerance, which characterizes much of today’s evangelical and Christian movements.
In terms of parochial schools (again, in my experience, not Catholic, Lutheran, or Methodist schools), it seems the evangelical schools have produced the co-workers, bosses and business owners I know who aren’t equipped well to read, spell, add, subtract, multiply, divide, or, in general, engage in much critical thinking or analysis.
Incidentally Um Cara, at the risk of driving you to further despair, it’s the very evangelicals here who insist that man DID NOT walk on the moon.
(Frowny emoticon with many exclamation points.)
October 7th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I am most definately a Christian, and proud of it. Where I live, a LOT of the parochial school kids have better ACT/SAT scores when they enter college and are required to take fewer remedial classes than their public school counter-parts. They have lower teacher/student ratios and offer more extracurriculars in language, art, and music than some public schools.
I don’t know anyone who believes man did not walk on the moon, although I know some people believe that in our society. I think they are called conspiracy theorists, not Christians per se.
I don’t think everything bad in this country is because of Christians. Don’t blame a group for a few bad apples.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
You know what Um all you want to do is bash Christianity and I am sooo tired of that. You don’t want to believe in God that’s your prerogative but don’t sit here and think those of us who do are any less intelligent or our opinions and thoughts are any less valid than yours. And yes, He did create us in His image and I’m sure I can guess your next comment.
~Sarah- that’s a pretty sad. Here’s a little tip for you, I’m a Christian and I believe man walked on the moon. GASP….were do you get this stuff from???? I suppose you believe that the government killed Kenndy too.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Is it some unwritten rule that to be a Dem. you have to hate Christians and not believe in God?
October 7th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Gayle, I think you have me confused with someone else. I have NEVER bashed Christianity. The closest that I came was a sarcastic and ignorant comment I made about Palin believing in witchcraft, but when I learned that belief in witchraft was widespread amongst evangelicals (hence correcting my former ignorance) I apologized for that comment.
He did create us in His image and I’m sure I can guess your next comment.
Seriously Gayle, you have me confused with someone else. I have not, and would not mock your religion.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I’ll mock it for you Gayle. Mock mock mock, the bible is a bunch of old twaddle. Mock mock mock. There, now you can hate someone who really deserves it.
Actually, it’s not Christians that bother me. It’s pig-ignorant bigots.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Yea, John is the one who mocks Christianity (and Islam, and Judaism, and Wicca, and…)
Maybe you thought I was John? All us liberals look alike.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Um Cara is a good guy, even if he is way too tolerant of effwits. See – I don’t condemn everyone I disagree with, only the really truly unquestionably stupid.
Like you Gayle.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Gayle asks:
Is it some unwritten rule that to be a Dem. you have to hate Christians and not believe in God?
Obama is Christian, and a Democrat.
Biden is Christian, and a Democrat.
Bill Clinton is Christian, and a Democrat.
Hillary Clinton is Christian, and a Democrat.
My mommy is Christian, and a Democrat.
etc…
So, no Gayle, lot’s of Democrats are Christians and lot’s of them believe in God.
So, I politely answered your question. Could you please answer one of mine?
How does the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection conflict with your belief in God?
October 7th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Um~ I didn’t mean necessarily you but the every intelligent John proved my point. And I don’t think all libs look alike, they just sound alike.
~John-Because I have different beliefs and thoughts than you makes me stupid?? You expecting everyone to think like you is stupid.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
My belief is that God created everything just as we are now. But you know my unsophisticated beliefs don’t belong here with all the intillects like John. As far as Dems and Christianity goes, It just seems to me that a lot of them on this blog any way hate it. I shouldn’t paint all Dems. with such a broad brush.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Intellects, my bad
October 7th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
But Gayle, couldn’t God have created the conditions for man to come about in his image? I mean, say he created all of these physical laws, and all of the matter that would have ended up combining together to make planets and stars and such. He is all knowing, and all powerful, so he knows by creating this stuff and these rules in the way he did eventually the thing he wanted to create, man, came about.
It just doesn’t seem to me like evolution has to conflict with the bible. Long ago, when Galileo figured out that the earth revolves around the sun, rather than everything revolving around the earth, the church put him under house arrest. This conflict with evolution is the same kind of thing in my view. A pointless battle against science, when it doesn’t even have anything to do with anything in the Bible.
I honestly don’t understand it. And it frustrates me to no end to see science perverted with ‘intelligent design theory’ to try to prove something that just can’t be proven.
Nobody is ever going to prove or disprove God. But figuring out how stuff works has been something humans have been doing for a long time, and it just does not conflict with Christianity.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Gayle: “~Sarah- that’s a pretty sad. Here’s a little tip for you, I’m a Christian and I believe man walked on the moon. GASP….were do you get this stuff from????”
Oh, believe me, Gayle. You don’t know the half of it! I truly WISH I was making it up, but yes– in my 38 years of living around here, I have found at least half a dozen — and they’re always evangelicals, mind you — that refute the idea that man ever walked on the moon. One even said, “Why, even the Russians know we faked the moon walk!”
Mind you, I don’t believe ALL evangelicals refuse to believe that man walked on the moon (thank goodness). But the ones I’ve run into, happen to also be evangelical, yes. So the point was apropos.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
~Um Cara and Sarah- I see you points. Um, I guess eternity will tell. Sarah, I fortunately have never come across any one like the people you referenced.
I guess there some things that we’ll have to agree to disagree.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Hey, at least we agree on the Moon Walk!
And the fact that after all the “kickin’ and a-gougin’ in the mud and the blood and the beer*” of the election, we might still be a nation in trouble, no matter who wins!
Yay!
*(apologies to Johnny Cash and “Boy Named Sue,” lyrics by Shel Silverstein)
October 7th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Shel Silverstein wrote that, really? Never knew.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
It’s not your religious beliefs that gave me the idea you are stupid, Gayle (although I must admit they were a bit of a clue).
It’s your stupidity.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
~John- Please, please enlighten me so as to not be so stupid in the future.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
~Sarah- Too true. Maybe we could come up with a good write in candidate?
October 7th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
I dunno, Lou Dobbs was sounding pretty good last night. He wasn’t taking any guff from either party.
October 8th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
And yep, Shel Silverstein wrote the lyrics to Cash’s “Boy Named Sue.” He also wrote an ABC book for adults that was pretty hilarious.
Yep, America, there was a time when a guy could write good stuff for country singers, children (Where the Sidewalk Ends) AND be a Playboy contributor without everyone going batshi+ crazy in a moral spazz-out.
RIP, Shel & Johnny.
October 8th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Hey, even the Pope agreed with Um Cara as long ago as 1993.
Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/vaticanview.html
October 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pm