John McCain’s Relationships With Unrepentant Terrorists
Florida’s biggest Republican voting block are anti-Castro Cubans. Some are quite militant and have conducted acts of bombing. But rather than being regarded as terrorists, they’re seen as “freedom fighters” by their Republican defenders. So important are they to the Republican base, that John McCain has flip-flopped on his 2000 position when he proclaimed about Cuba, ”I’d be willing to do the same thing we did with-with Vietnam.”
But now, in an attempt to capitalize on the political infrastructure offered by Florida’s anti-Castro Cubans, the McCain campaign is aligned with militants whose actions can only be defined as terrorism.
On July 20, while campaigning for McCain in Miami and just prior to speaking at a McCain event, Sen. Joe Lieberman met with the wife of convicted serial bomber Eduardo Arocena and promised to pursue a presidential pardon on his behalf. Arocena is the founder of the notorious Cuban exile militant group Omega 7, renowned for a string of bombings from 1975 to 1983. Arocena was convicted of the 1980 murder of a Cuban diplomat in Manhattan. In 1983, Arocena was arrested and charged with 42 counts pertaining to conspiracy, explosives, firearms, and destruction of foreign government property within the United States. He is currently serving a life sentence in federal prison in Indiana.
Senator Joe Lieberman, McCain’s first choice for VP, and a possible McCain cabinet member, promised Arocena’s wife Miriam that he would petition for a pardon for her husband.
“It’s my responsibility; it’s my responsibility. I will carry [the pardon request] back. I will carry it back,” Lieberman told Arocena just before addressing a group at a McCain event. “I think of you like you were my family. … I’ll bring it back. I’ll do my best.”
See Lieberman talk with Arocena at 3:45 into this video:
Arocena’s targets have included:
*Madison Square Garden (he blew up an adjacent store);
*JFK airport (Arocena’s group planted a suitcase bomb intended for a TWA flight to Los Angeles-in protest of the airline’s flights to Cuba. The plane would have exploded if not for the fact that the bomb went off on the tarmac prior to being loaded);
*Avery Fisher Hall at Lincoln Center (causing damage to three levels of the theater and halting the performance of a music group from Cuba);
*the ticket office of the Soviet airline Aeroflot;
*and a church.
In spite of the above video, Scott Overland, a Lieberman spokesman, denies that Lieberman is an advocate for Arocena:
“Senator Lieberman does not intervene in criminal proceedings including requests for pardons,” according to Scott Overland, a Lieberman spokesman. “The correspondence was merely forwarded without any comment, endorsement or support whatsoever.”
Arocena isn’t the only terrorist with links to McCain and his campaign. Miami Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Mccain’s senior Latin America advisor, has lobbied for the release of Omega 7 members Jose Dionisio Suarez Esquivel and Virgilio Paz Romero, who were both convicted in the 1978 assassination of Chilean diplomat Orlando Letelier, which also took the life of American Ronni Karpen Moffitt (r) who was riding with him the day he was killed to her job at the Institute of Policy Studies in DC.
Diaz-Balart has also been seeking “due process” for bombers Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch, both charged in the killing of 73 civilians in the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner, the first act of airline terrorism in America.
Former Attorney General Richard Thornburgh described Bosch (r), who spent four years in federal prison for firing a bazooka into a Polish freighter bound for Havana in Miami’s harbor, as an “unreformed terrorist” and recommended immediate deportation when he showed up in Miami in 1988. But there were political considerations in Miami. [Congresswoman Ileana] Ros-Lehtinen, then running for Congress and now the Republican leader of the House foreign-affairs committee, lauded Bosch as a hero and a patriot. After she personally lobbied then-President George Bush (with her campaign manager Jeb Bush at a meeting noted in the Miami media), Bush overruled the FBI and the Justice and State departments, and Bosch was granted U.S. residency.
Bill Ayers may not be your choice for Rotary Club Man of the Year, but he is a tenured professor and nationally recognized expert on education reform, who has worked with Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, earning the mayor’s praise on his work for the Chicago school system. This all goes to show that one person’s “terrorist” is another person’s freedom fighter or education reform advocate. Or, perhaps better put in this case, one person’s education reform advocate is another person’s cheap campaign tool.
If mcsames relationship is important, that would prove that the ties between obama and ayers are also important.
Thanks alan for pointing that out.
October 17th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Actually, it’s the opposite:
Alan is pointing out that Obama’s ties to these people are no more or less important than McCain’s.
Remember, it WAS McCain who started the association game.
October 17th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Didn’t the right START the accusations about “associations”?
October 17th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Third and final try?
Who started the affiliations game?
October 17th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
What’s important is to see your DESPERATION to get something, ANYTHING to stick, cause you don’t want a black president. Sad.
October 17th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
“…that would prove that the ties between obama and ayers are also important.”
No.
The anti-Castros attempted and succeeded in killing bunches of people. The Weather Underground had the objective of ending the killing in Vietnam and they never killed anyone except for three of their own.
October 17th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
John McCain’s campain is infested with dozens of deregulators who allowed the investment banks to create a tangled web of complex financial instruments based on bad loans and now their value is so dimpaired and impossible to accurately measure that banks can’t take the risk of dealing with other banks for fear they will default. The entire banking system is freezing up and the taxpayer has to pay a trillion dollars to buy the toxic waste. Otherwise we get great depression II.
Thanks John McCain. You pushed deregulation of banks for 26 years from you Senate chairmanship, bragging constantly that you were a deregulator. Your right hand man, Phil Graham was the ring-leader. You staffed your campain with numerous lobyists from Fannie and Freddie. Now you have to bald faced audacity to try to blame Obama because he had a five minute phone call with a guy a year ago (did I mention the guy is black).
John McCain: You are a flat out lier and have not one ounce of honor left. The same 28% that thinks Bush is doing a good job believe you. The rest of us will never trust a word that you say again. We see right through you. You will get into the White House when you go to visit President Obama next year.
October 17th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Alan, didn’t you know, your only a terorist if you disagree with Republicans …
These scumbags giving us the latest BS (which is old BS) are the nature of what is wrong with America. Can I dissagree with the government and still be a proud American? Damn straight! Citizens who have the balls to stand us against any government are doing their jobs as active citizens. Touting this ‘America done no wrong’ spittle that Hannity loves is just an example of a useless voice. You stand for the people or for the machine; nobody can stradle that fence. Wanting government out of your life isn’t just about taxes. You also have to want them out of your medical records, bedroom and church. Wake up America, this country was founded on rebellion against England and grew from rebellion against itself.
Give me liberty or give me death.
October 17th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leo-w-gerard/paint-mccain-a-red-baiter_b_135544.html
October 17th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Easy answer…
Democrats.
When the wright affiliation game started obama wasn’t even the nominee yet.
October 17th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
No jeffro,
the sad thing is you see everything as racial.
Why would a conservative want one of the most liberal senators to be president?
I didn’t see any democrats in maryland voting for michael steele (republican) because he was black. Does that make democrats racist because they didn’t vote for a black man?
October 17th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Who started the affiliations game?
Easy answer…
Democrats.
When the wright affiliation game started obama wasn’t even the nominee yet.
…………………………………
Actually, THAT part is true, however Obama is NOT the one who started it or even perpetuated it.
October 17th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Because you don’t even know what it means to be a Conservative! What does it mean to you nowadays? Then come and tell me what we should do as a country. Start speaking Truth to Power and stop using a drug addicts radio show as your information. If you think this administration was looking out for your CONSERVATIVE intrests, Your sadly mistaken. Mcain= More of the same.
October 17th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
October 17th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Factcheck doesn’t agree with your claim that obama doesn’t perpetuate it.
Obama incorrectly claimed all of McCain’s ads had been “negative.” That was true for one recent week, but not over the entire campaign. And at times Obama has run a higher percentage of attack ads than McCain.
Old lefty, do you want to explain why not only did obama lie in the debate, but he is running negative ads?
Is this change or the continuation of bush policies?
October 17th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Truth2Power,
I’m outside doing yardwork, but you’ll have to get the info for me.
If we talk about lying in the debate, we can go subject by subject.
My suspicion is Both fib, both lie, and both exaggerate…they ARE after all, politicians, who want to get elected.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Truth, Read this and then discuss. OK? http://www.dmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?nm=Core+Pages&type=gen&mod=Core+Pages&tier=3&gid=B33A5C6E2CF04C9596A3EF81822D9F8E
October 17th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Thanks for telling me what I know and don’t know. You must be god.
Fire all the politicians and replace them with people chosen at random from the phone book.
Then…
1. Make it law that politicians are held to a higher standard than we the people. WHEN they commit crimes, the pay double the fine, double the time in jail.
2. Not just vote people into office but vote people off the public dime. Once voted off, you can’t receive a government check again. (except tax refunds, social security, etc.)
3. No family businesses disguised as government. No kennedys, bushs, gores, etc. passing government offices around like a private business.
That would be a good start. Why don’t you offer some solutions instead of whining about white conservatives not voting for a black very liberal senator.
Please show me where I used his info. A quote of mine and a link to that drug addict’s radio show. Of course, if you’re just making stuff up you can ignore this request for you to back up your allegation.
True. Government never looks out for the interests of the people.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Is this the game you want to play?
There are a whole bunch of hillary supporters that are pissed that the person with the most votes didn’t win the nomination that will be voting for mcsame.
Here’s a link, read and enjoy.
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/
October 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Hmm, lets see now, Mccain talks to the wife of a terrorist so that in your twisted little mind equals working for and with a former terrorist who still hates the country and would turn all the good little students into clones of himself, I get it.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
True old lefty…
Except obama is running on change.
Change what, the name on the presidential letterhead?
Sounds like obama is just like everyone else.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Did you read the article? It’s not a game i play. The key word is Pragmatist. Let’s discuss, not be obtuse.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Most Hillary supporters now support Obama. Sorry. That PUMA business is dead.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
@COOKIEGRAMMA: a former terrorist who still hates the country and would turn all the good little students into clones of himself
And just who are you talking about?
October 17th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Cookiegramma is a low information voter. LIV. They get their information from fox news and a drug addict.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Take a good look at the actual programs supported by Ayers. There was never an emphasis on Reading, Writing , Arithmetic or any other academic coursework.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Truth, What does being a Conservative even mean now?
October 17th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Listen jeffro,
Further up the thread you played the race card that conservatives won’t vote for the most liberal senator because he is black.
Before you start throwing words like obtuse around you should look within yourself to see why you felt race is more important than political philosophy.
The white democrats in maryland didn’t vote for a black man, republican michael steele, are you going to call them racist?
Your turn to discuss why you have a double standard.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Gramma, Where are you getting your information about Ayers?
October 17th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
By the way don’t go insulting what you do not have any way of knowing JEFFRO. I am far from low information and I would never insult someone the way you seem so want to do. Research is a bit of a game with me, I relax doing it. Low information voters are those that believe the candidates web sites actually tell the whole story in any manner that comes close to the truth. I also happen to be a US History buff who loves more modern history and government studies.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Have you noticed I provide links?
http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/
You got a link to prove your point?
October 17th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Look it up, google is a good place to search. I would start though if it has not been deleted by the site already with the 2001 files released recently. Much more information there than what the press wants people to know now. You could also search Annenberg Challenge, it’s only common sense.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I addressed YOU in that thread! No one else. You will vote against your own best interests. I conclude there is a reason for it.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Truth2power; you are the one on the right track, there are hundreds of other sites out there
October 17th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Your link proves WHAT! That repubs can start a website and name it what they want? You must think I would fall for that garbage? Sorry. Let’s discuss my link.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Damn jeffro, isn’t having abc, nbc, cbs, cnn, msnbc on the liberal side enough of an advantage for you?
Don’t the conservatives deserve to have one channel to do the job the liberal media won’t?
Drug addict? Rush? Is that a bad thing? Tell me how you feel about patrick kennedy, an elected official, having a drug issue so bad he crashed into security poles at the capital building. Or maybe even robert kennedy that was on air america and his heroin problem.
It’s going to be interesting to see if you are authentic enough to hold democrats to the same standards.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Gramma, Your intrest in linking Obama and Ayers shows DESPERATION! Get on to a relevant issue thaqt the middle class care about. Are you a Troll?
October 17th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Please list what are my best interests.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Okay, let’s discuss your link.
First off, prove the author really was a republican.
Links to her contribution record, articles where she was in favor of the republican.
Like you said, how hard it is for repubs to start a website, the author didn’t have to do that much work.
Since you discount links I provide, I simply want you to prove what you say.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Tell me about Robert Kennedy’s heroin problem. Your credibility is already suspect to everyone here. All you do is change the subject from any thing I ask you to address. Prove that those media outlets are not owned by partisan Republicans. Should be easy for you to do.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Ok, your being obtuse. Why not address the content of the article. The idea of a pragmatic leader. I think it’s logical.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
She’s entitled to her opinion.
I don’t share it.
You think it’s logical, again, you’re free to your opinion.
What more is there to discuss?
October 17th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
What ARE your best interests? To Be spreading democracy around the world? Exporting more jobs from this country? Redistributing wealth to the top 2%? Deregulating every industry? Socializing all expenses of corporations? Allowing health insurance companies to control our doctors and deny coverage? What DO you believe in?
October 17th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Did everyone vote on that or is that your opinion?
Are you incapable of googling kennedy and his drug problem? I guess it’s easier for you to blame my credibility instead of checking for the facts yourself. That’s very telling isn’t it? That you’re afraid of the truth.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Wick Allison is a man, I think. He explained why he was a conservative. Why don’t you explain why you are so I can better understand the reasons you don’t like Obama.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Yeah, Pat has been a user. He didn’t say the things about druggies that jeff christie said before he was convicted. That they should be thrown in jail. He doesn’t say it now. hypocrite.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I believe in partisan political hacks like you to be honest.
Rush + druggie = bad
Robert kennedy + druggie = ??
Patrick kennedy + drugs = ??
What do YOU believe?
And please, don’t try and change the subject again. Answer the questions unless you’re afraid to prove my allegation you’re a partisan political hack. And not a very good one.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
When I make a claim, I will back it up with sources. IF you make a claim, It’s up to you to back it up. See how it works? Good.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Wasn’t it FDR that said something along the lines of making the world safe for democracy? FDR is not exactly a favorite of the Republicans. High taxes forces businesses to leave the country. They will go where it is most cost effective to run their businesses. Redistribution of wealth is a bad idea no matter how you try to spin it. The top 5% pay 80% of the taxes to the federal government. How much should they pay to make it fair? Socialization is dangerous under any circumstances. A reason not to vote for Obama. Health care should be left up to the doctors and the patients, rather than the govenrment. Universal healthcare gets people killed. Just ask the Canadians. I believe that politicians will say whatever they need to say to get elected. Obama is a politician that will act in his own best interest.
October 17th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Prove he’s a conservative.
Like you didn’t believe the hillary links, why should I blindly believe yours?
Prove he’s not a democrat impersonating as a conservative.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I am a Liberal. I am not avoiding anything. I believe that you should not claim that drug users should be thrown in jail for years. Then change your tune when you get convicted of doctor shopping. But that is not the issue. What is reason for being a conservative. You probably know why i am a Liberal. Let’s start there.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
“Give me liberty or give me death.”
OK, so you pay for your own health care.
_________________________
“Mccain talks to the wife of a terrorist…”
No, he said he’s going to work to get a terrorist pardoned.
________________________
“Have you noticed I provide links… hillbuzz.wordpress.com…
You got a link to prove your point?”
A link like “hillbuzz” only indicates you traffic right-wing webbies. Maybe it’s your personal site. But let’s see what else they’ve got. “Why has the media looked into the life and background of a plumber…when they’ve never investigated Obama or his radical associates?”
When they’ve never investigated Obama. Sure.
And Palin breaks the state ethics law and turns around and says she did nothing illegal or unethical.
Does anyone on the right speak English?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Ever hear of William F Buckley? Allison worked for him. You should have known that if you read the article.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wick_Allison
October 17th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
A conservative is an individualist. The conservative believes in self-reliance and self-responsibility. Ayn Rand would be a modern day conservative based on her views. An individualist cannot be a racist since the requirement exists for a racist to see everyone of one particular skin color as part of one large group. The individualist does not look at an individual as part of any one group. Rather they view the person on an individual basis.
“Like every form of determinism, racism invalidates the specific attribute which distinguishes man from all other living species: his rational faculty. Racism negates two aspects of man’s life: reason and choice, or mind and morality, replacing them with chemical predestination.”
[Ayn Rand - "Racism," Virtue of Selfishness, 172: pb 126.]
October 17th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I got it jeffro,
You hold republicans to a higher standard.
Democrats do the same thing but since you don’t expect better it doesn’t bother you.
It is telling that you aren’t able to tell the difference between someone getting addicted to recreational drugs and someone getting addicted to prescription drugs.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
See, I knew you could do it. It was a very simple google search.
Still, I don’t agree with her opinion. No matter what you might feel, it is opinion and not fact. Life is not as black and white as you envision.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Robert and Truth, The bushies have allowed for profiteering in a time of war. Halliburton makes billions of dollars in the middle east while our kids die providing security for them. On top of that they pay NO TAXES in this country. They are based in Dubai.But you don’t care.Yet you support these bushie policies. You have for 8 years. And i’m supposed to think you guys are some kind of Great Americans?.That is so Patriotic! With people like you around,We The People don’t need enemies
October 17th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Why is it when liberals talk about profiting off of the war they always mention haliburton and NEVER mention URS Corp and Perini corp?
This is just another example of the double standard that liberals routinely employ.
Liberals aren’t concerned with the truth, just hating people that they don’t agree with.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Truth, Go ahead and shill for rush the druggie, He must be one of your hero’s. Tells me lots about you. Where does it say the Kennedys used street drugs? Source? Individualist? You mean, I got mine,Screw you. Your a Great American?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Truth, IT IS NOT A REPUBLICAN/DEMOCRAT ISSUE. You support War profiteering. I Don’t. The Troops are not happy with the policy. They see the contractors as I do.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Like many conservatives, Bush is not one of my favorite Presidents. He has been pretty far to the laft when it comes to spending issues, and the size of government. I do not believe that Obama, or McCain, will be a good President. They both lean left on fiscal aspects of government. The goal of the conservative is to bring about smaller government. McCain and Obama will bring about larger government. Don’t rely on the hype from either campaign. Check the voting record of both. If McCain were a member of the Democratic party, you would not have the same problems with him as you do with the Rebublican title around his neck. McCain and Hillary were very close on many of the issues when it comes to the voting records of the two. Also, Haliburton was given no bid contracts during the Clinton administration (and the Bush administration). No bid contracts are nothing new in government, and conservatives will always be opposed to it. The reason is that no bid contracts violate the belief in the free-market.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Blame Clinton. That’s what your good at. He never invaded a country to secure their resources, But to Say that we have been ripped off by this administration Is too much for you. Your a Great American Robert?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Of course it’s a dem/rep issue, otherwise where is your outrage about the contracts that urs corp and perni corp are using to profit off the war?
Why no mention if it’s about truth?
Speaking of haliburton, where was the outrage when they were working for clinton in bosnia/kosovo?
Of course it’s not politically motivated. wink wink
October 17th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
If you read the comment that I posted, you will notice that I place part of the blame on no bid contracts on the Bush administration. My point is that Halliburton was used prior to the Bush administration through no bid contracts. Clinton did send our troops into places like Kosovo. Some call it a police action, others call it a war. I believe that when troops are sent in and force is used by both sides, then you have a war. We had no national interest in Kosovo. We had a humanitarian interest, but not national. Kosovo was no threat to the United States. We can go back and forth all night on the Clinton and Bush administrations, but I would prefer to discuss the differences between liberals and conservatives in the modern day.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
It is really strange that no conservatives on this blog have condemned McCain for these ties to terrorists, or his employment of one of Saddam’s lobbyists.
Come on guys, tell us who your third party candidate is?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
You and these republicans are NOT OPPOSED to NO BID contracts! You just accept it as our kids die, And we spend 12 billion a month. But you don’t care. You never did. You just claimed that we have to “Support the Troops” You are part of the problem. Not the solution. The opposite of a Patriot. You never called your reps to question the current occupants policy at all. You never thought about it. Don’t lie to me and tell me you are for small govt.,and less spending. Every thing you do and say shows you are a follower of this Administration. A 15%er Dead Ender. How does it feel?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Bob Barr makes an interesting choice. I don’t agree with him on everything, but he is the most conservative according to his voting record. From what I have read, it is more a relationship with Senator Lieberman (Vice President Gore’s running mate in 2000) that has the ties to the wife of the terrorist.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
another conservative jumps ship.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/in-philly-conse.html
October 17th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Well, not everyone agrees with you. Remember, the liberal media always covers for democrats….
Since then, it is safe to say the Americans for decades wondered how they could get their hands on the vast amounts of oil and natural resources in Kosovo.
In the evenings of the NATO operation in Kosovo, it has been confirmed by multiple sources that with the NATO troops an engineering team and representatives of Haliburton and Braun & Rut entered Kosovo. Haliburton built the Bondstil base, right next to the oil sands.
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/180/54/
Remind us, who was president when we invaded kosovo without the approval of the UN, invaded a country that was much much less of a threat to us than iraq?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Truth, I’m outraged that ANY company is profiteering in a time of war. Never said I picked and choosed. You are throwing up a strawman so you can knock it down. Typical tactic of someone one the defensive. How do you defend your Non Patriotic support of the bushies?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Are you aware that more people were killed in chicago over the summer than died in the war?
Since chicago is a democrat controlled city does that mean democrats don’t care about citizens being killed in the streets of america?
You’re getting pretty worked up jeffro. Why are liberals such angry people?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
My brother was with Special Operations out of Egland Air Force Bace in Florida. He was in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is now a civilian working for the Air Force in California. To say that I don’t care is the attack of one who is without logic and is not prepared for a debate on the issues. I never said I was a Republican. I am a conservative. There is a difference. I support the war in Iraq from the position of an individualist that prefers a dictator with a record of using chemical weapons against the Iranians and his own people to be out of power. We are in the process of shutting down our largest base in Anbar province. The war is coming to a close. The terrorists that attempted to fill the void of power that was created when Hussein was forced out are without money and a base of operation. Victory is at hand in Iraq. I would have preferred to deal with Iraq after Afghanistan, but eventually Iraq was a necessity.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Truth, Blame Clinton. You are a Great American, Very Patriotic. Troops are PISSED at people like you. To cowardly to speak out about the policy,And how wrong it is and has been. Obama will change things for our Brave Troops and Take them out of an untenable situation. Then investigate the Waste and fraud of BILLIONS in stolen treasury. But you don’t care. Pathetic you are.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Yet you still haven’t mentioned urs corp or perni corp. Have you even googled them yet? Have you made the connection?
It’s like you and druggie rush, but giving the kennedys a free pass.
A word of advice…
Be authentic, be honest with yourself. If something bothers you, great, work to fix it. But don’t only complain when a rep does it and give dems a free pass. The problem will NEVER be fixed using your method.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Wow
Alot of anger in the post
October 17th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I’m writing in larry elder.
I don’t believe it’s a wasted vote. Voting for mcsame or obama will only encourage the same weasels to keep running.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
I’m worked up over the travesty that You approve of. Your a Great Patriot. You got one of those yellow magnetic ribbons on your car? Atta boy!
October 17th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Why are liberals such angry people?
The only thing I am angry about is this SPAM filter, other than that, I’m pretty mellow. So are most liberals I know.
Generalize much, T2P?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
MK, Yer Back! Are you getting used to the idea of President Obama Yet?
October 17th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
That’s the problem jeffro getting your information from the dailykos talking points.
McCain, R-Ariz., handily defeated Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., 68 percent to 23 percent in a voluntary survey of 4,293 active-duty, National Guard and reserve subscribers and former subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times and Air Force Times.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/10/military_poll_100508w/
October 17th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
T2P said:
Obama is my first non third party candidate in my 20 years of voting. I agree that it is not a waste to vote 3rd party. Other countries seem to function with more than two parties, we could too.
But, I genuinely like Obama, so am pretty happy this year. I could have been happy with McCain, if he hadn’t lost his mind and put Palin on the ticket with him.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
No Jeffro I don’t like the economic plan of redistribution of wealth just can’t get by that issue
October 17th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Cara,
McCain’s past is an open book. Why is Obama’s clouded in mystery? After all what does he have to hide.
1. Occidental College records –Not released
2. Columbia College records – Not released
3. Columbia Thesis Paper – “not available”
4. Harvard College records – Not released
5. Selective Service Registration – Not released
Just a few that quickly come to mind.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
The Posters that are too cowardly to speak to the issues of this absurd occupation are the ones that tell us that they are conservatives. Robert, William F. Buckley would laugh in your Face. You are no more a Conservative than i am.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Mk, Yer not very smart. You just watched more wealth distribution happen right under your nose, Than Obama would ever be capable of. But you say nothing Cause bush is your guy right or wrong.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Bernie,
McCain’s past is an open book. Why is Obama’s clouded in mystery?
Umm.. you perceive that because you are a conspiracy theorist maybe?
October 17th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I think that Obama needs a little more experience before I can rely on his change mantra. He would be in a much better position if he had run for Governor of IL first. 3rd party voting is a good thing. No one should have to rely on the two big shots from the main parties. I am a conservative, not a Republican. I will vote for the most conservative person running. Sometimes it is a Democrat, sometimes a Republican, and sometimes a 3rd party. It is a dangerous thing to be boholden to one party, as they will always disappoint you eventually.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Maybe if you knew me personally, you would understand that I am a conservative. A modern day concervative is an individualist. That is my world-view. Individualism is how I view all things. Buckley is a conservative on some issues, and liberal on others. Just as Clinton was liberal on some issues, and conservative on others. I am a conservative across the board. Individualism is my driving force.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
As often as I can.
But at the same time, liberals (and conservatives) that are on blogs are much more involved than those “other” people. Also, there are studies that prove liberals are angrier, the Barna Group survey to name one. One only has to compare right-wing protests and left-wing protests to see the difference in anger. Have you seen that video of mcsame supporters with obama supporters being “angry?” Can you cite a right-wing protest that has resulted in property damage like routinely happens at left-wing protests? Did you see the protests at the rep/dem conventions, which side do you feel was angrier?
Regarding the links…. try to remove the h t t p w w w stuff, I’ve also had more success with shorter links. Try tiny.cc (add the www) to create shorter links.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Truthy,”The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services.” From your link.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Jeffro
Why do you personally attack someone who has a differing opinion?
October 17th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
T2P,
I’ve never been to a protest in my life, so I can’t really speak to how angry folks are at them. It’s a pretty small minority of people that protest – I think they are a huge waste of time.
The ones that get the most airplay are usually anarchists – not really left wing or right wing, just nitwits. No, I’m not familiar with the video you refer to, if you can manage to get a link through I’ll check it out though.
As for the links, it isn’t just links that trip the SPAM filter, nobody really knows what is tripping it because this freeware garbage SPAM filter is a black box that is completely unconfigurable. So it is unlikely that it will get any better.
Not that I suspect anyone cares, but I am pretty close to giving up on posting, period.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
The difference between the conservative and the liberal in the modern day, is that the conservative has an individualist world-view, and the liberal has a statist world-view. That is why former Governor Spitzer of New York could say that “It is not about the individual, it is about the ideology.” Conservatives and liberals see the same problems,but come up with very different solutions. To a conservative, it is about the individual.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
MK,It’s not your opinion I disagree with and attack. I just point out your ignorance and you don’t like it. Buck up Cowboy. :-)
October 17th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Truthy, Who do you support for POTUS? http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/?Page=Article&ID=9559
October 17th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Robert said:
Uh huh, sure. That’s why conservatives are so worried about whether an individual dude marries another individual dude (or chick, chick). Because they want to make sure the state doesn’t infringe on the actions of the individual.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Don’t do that. Jeffro & bradley will soon go back to their video games.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Can’t win a debate so you attack personally. How childish. I checked out T2P link about the military response to the debate. Completely wrong Jeffro. Complete cross section of the military. Age gender rank branch picked McCain hands down
October 17th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
When the first paragraph has such a misrepresentation such as
or how he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years
how do you expect anyone to take it serious.
Have you ever seen the actual video/transcript of the butchered quote?
October 17th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
MK, You are a Great American! http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006_main.php
October 17th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Mcain wants more war. Does he not? PROVE IT!
October 17th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I am not opposed to contractual unions between 2 parties (which is what marriage is). I believe that the states should make that determination in regards to marriage, rather than the courts or federal government, through a popular vote. Nor do I care about the living arangements of other individuals. Who you live with is your business. It is of no concern to me what you do, so long as your actions do not infiringe upon my individual rights.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Jeffro
I give up. We are talking about a poll concerning McCain and you throw up a article written about Pres. Bush. Where is the logic in that?
October 17th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
T2P re:
how he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years
Completely agree, that quote has been taken out of context. So has Obama’s quote about ’spreading wealth around’.
Jeffro re:
Truthy, Who do you support for POTUS?
He answered that question, in this very thread, and your link was not relevant to his answer.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Robert,
Both sides say that THEY are individualists.
The left wants government to level the playing field for working people,and believe it will percolate up, while conservatives want the government to favor the rich, and believe it will trickle down.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Obama beats his children. Prove he doesn’t.
Don’t you feel foolish when I twist your words on you?
Regarding your link, seems like the same people. So the newest poll, the one I linked to, would be more applicable. The poll you linked to is about bush, not mcsame.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Robert,
I am not opposed to contractual unions between 2 parties (which is what marriage is).
I take it you are a libertarian and not a Republican?
October 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
The Troops are not happy .http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2008/10/military_veteransarrested_debate_101608w/
October 17th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Both sides may claim to be individualists, but both sides cannot be right. If an individual believes in using the power of the state to bring about actions that will impact individuals in either a positive or negative manner, than that is part of the statist philosophy.
“A social system is a code of laws which men observe in order to live together. Such a code must have a basic principle, a starting point, or it cannot be devised. The starting point is the question: Is the power of society limited or unlimited?
“Individualism answers: The power of society is limited by the inalienable, individual rights of man. Society may make only such laws as do not violate these rights.
“Collectivism answers: The power of society is unlimited. Society may make any laws it wishes, and force them upon anyone in any manner it wishes.” — Ayn Rand, Textbook of Americanism.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Bush, Mcsame. Same policy. Whats the difference
October 17th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I believe I’ve seen the whole video of the encounter.
What context was “spread the wealth” in?
Please don’t confuse jeffro with facts.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I am a modern day conservative – individualist, I do not affiliate with parties, since they will not always run the most conservative candidate. Libertarianism does draw me in from time to time, but never permanently. Currently, Bob Barr is the most conservative person running. He is the libertarian candidate and will most likely get my vote.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
With regards to Republicans and Democrats, Lefty’s argument is absolutely correct.
You really sound like a Libertarian, I use to be one as well. However they Libertarians and the Republians have become oddly cozy. My main concern is for individual rights, and although I would still not consider myself a Democrat, I feel they do a better job in that area.
The Republicans are all about putting people in jail, not letting people marry who they want, telling women what to do with their bodies, etc… Republican give a tiny bit more liberty w/ regards to personal wealth, but the trade offs on the social side are too great.
And pure Libertarians are unelectable (plus, they are impractical. Private ownership of roads? Come on…)
October 17th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
UM, What question, and what did he answer? You inserted yourself and you got me confused. Please clarify.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
The vast majority of my friends that admit to being conservative have no problem with gay marriage. I have more liberal friends that are against it.
Of course same sex couples should have all the same rights/benefits/hassles that straight couples have. Once they go to divorce court they will regret having the government granting them those rights. Make them suffer as much as us straight people.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
T2P,
What context was “spread the wealth” in?
It was about it being more healthy to not concentrate all the wealth in a tiny percentage of the population. It is absolutely true that the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer, and the middle class has been squeezed within an inch of their lives. That’s not good for America.
It was not about a tax policy of robbing from the rich and giving to the poor, as some have made it out to be.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Boy that was a challenge
October 17th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
T2P, just wrote a post about the context of that quote. It got eaten by the lovely freeware SPAM filter. I’m done posting for the night. Maybe my post will pop up later, if not, talk to you about it another time.
Jeffro – you asked who he supports for POTUS, he answered my question about that earlier in this thread.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
There is a reason that I consider myself independent from the political parties. I do not agree 100% with any of them. I show no blind loyalty to any party. I simply believe that parties are overrated, and we would all be better off without them. Imagine voting for an individual based simply on the issues.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Robert,
You assume that Ayn Rand is right.
It’s just an opinion, that is disputable.
Also an just an opinion:
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.”
John Maynard Keynes
October 17th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
I can’t post anything. I’m done.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
???
Don’t the facts speak otherwise? If one checks out the black incarceration rate under the clinton term it dwarfs the previous years of republican rule. Clinton signed the 3 strikes law, joe biden authored that use crack go to jail use coke get your hand slapped law, biden also authored the law that put tommy chong in jail for getting a pipe in the mail.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Truthy, You support mcain? The troops don’t don’t think you are doing the right thing. http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1973
October 17th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
A very small fringe group of troops. The majority of the troops believe in what they are doing.
October 17th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Uma, I don’t belive your take on Liberalism=individual rights/Conservatives=financial freedom onlyis correct from my point of view. To me, conservative’s mainly want the right for society to decide thru voting at the state level what our societal mores should be. Never to infringe on one persons rights to give someone else a right
October 17th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Didn’t you get it when Um Cara said-
Jeffro – you asked who he supports for POTUS, he answered my question about that earlier in this thread.
Ever get the feeling that everyone knows stuff you don’t? Let me assure you, it’s not a feeling, it’s a fact.
October 17th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Unlike vietnam where young men were forced to go to war, this one is voluntary.
The war has been going on for a few years now, anyone enlisted knew they were going to be in a war.
If the troops didn’t believe in the mission, why would they enlist.
Of course the liberals never want to consider that.
October 17th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
the poor have gotten poorer,
The poor have gotten richer, not poorer.
It was not about a tax policy of robbing from the rich and giving to the poor,
Lets pretend you are right about the context. That doesn’t change what he is doing. He is increasing taxes on the rich, and LITERALLY giving it to the poor. He is not “reducing” the tax on the poor, he is cutting them a check.
Now, lets end above pretending. I still think he said it in context.
conservative’s mainly want the right for society to decide thru voting at the state level what our societal mores should be
I think that I agree. Have the fed do what Ought be done by the Fed. Have the State do what Ought be done by the State and let towns or groups do what Ought be done by groups or towns.
October 17th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
On your show tonight, you said that before McCain used Joe the plumber as an example he should have vetted him better. This process of intimidation is what we should expect should Obama win? We cannot question him and if we do, expect to have our lives smeared all over the press? Or be called racists? This is what this formerly Robert Kennedy supporter gets from this. Shame on you for joining in on this. I thought you supported free speech? These are gestapo tactics.
October 17th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
The difference is I want the facts to be analyzed, not some phoney baloney claims to try and pretend well McCain is pals with terrorists too so it balances out??
the Bill Ayers who was talked about briefly on Greta’s show today, she had to change the subject and kick off the guest so she could talk about gossip in Hollywood, more important than uncovering ties to terrorists by the presidential candidate Obama… to a democrat like Greta anyway; The Ayers group in San Fran was found to have explosive materials and Stalin/Marxist communist propaganda, but thats okay to democrats, right Alan? so what if hardcore communists what to overthrow America
October 17th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Who started the affiliations game?
Easy answer…
WOW HOW ABOUT OBAMA SAID 8 MORE YEARS OF GEORGE BUSH BEEN SAYING THAT FOR A GOOD TIME NOW SO I GUESS IT WAS OBAMA
October 17th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Dear Alan
John McCane is 70 plus years old. He screwed up a lot in the past. His divorse and his refusal to celibrate MLK’s Birthday were top of list. Sen. Obama also was a street drug user and he still smoke.He hang out with rev. Wright for his ambition and love for his wife.
Bottom line is we all know them. We are not stupid. If you do not read, then conservative and Libaral talk show will tell you everything.
I learn so much from Hanity & Colmb show. The show is super informative. You are libaral democrat and Sean is a Conservative Republican. Anderson Cooper’s 360 is not as exiting and provocative.
I like him. You, Sean and Anderson are good looking white man. I love good looking man of all color. I love Danzel Washigton. He is way better looking than real Malcolm X. Tell Sean I find John McCane as a good looking dud. Old but good looking.
October 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
YOUR sons will HAVE to serve Russia’s Army!!! Americans will be EXPORTED into RUSSIA!!!
SPREADING THE WEALTH!
Read part of this article from PRAVDA:
The immigrants (Americans) will further guarantee that each of their sons, upon reaching the legal age, will serve out the minimal term of enlistment in the Russian armed forces. Furthermore, the immigrants will provide cl@sses weekly, to their adopted communities, on Western standards and science of agriculture. These will continue as long as there is a demand from the community.
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/15-10-2008/106572-russia_us_farmer-0
October 19th, 2008 at 9:18 am
From the SAME people who brought us:
“John McCain is a KGB agent!”
“John McCain is the Manchurian candidate!”
“John McCain has an illegitimate black baby!”
The same hysterical smear tactics that were used AGAINST John McCain just 8 years ago.
October 19th, 2008 at 9:49 am
alan colmes,keth oberman, joe biden deserve each other. don’t forget barney frank & sen.dodd,bill mathews, what a bunch of jerks etc.
October 20th, 2008 at 12:37 am
[...] is it time to question some of John McCain’s questionable “radical” associations? Posted in Liberaland by Alan leave a comment • [...]
October 29th, 2008 at 11:40 am