That’s what Congressman Mike Pence of Indiana seems to think they should do, as he tells Chris Wallace he wants to build upon the belief in the free markets (oh, like bailing out private companies?), the sanctity of life and of traditional marriage, and that we shouldn’t draw any broad conclusions about a big realignment. Good luck with that.
h/t Think Progress
Who is responsible for the recession? Obama said Sean Hannity!!!!
Agreed for once, T. The beginning of life is indeed a biological question, but the answer is in the ovary and in the testicle. When they get together it is an event in both lives in which they merge for their mutual benefit.
Those Catholic nuns and priests must surely be headed for the eternal fire for preventing so many poor defenceless little eggs and spermatazoa from fulfilling their potential.
When life begins is not a philosophical question. It is a biological question. Things/people/everything around us are either alive or dead.
As for abortion being illegal. Should it be a national or state issue? In my personal opinion, let us vote on it. You might be as surprised as the californians who didn’t think prop 8 would go the way it did.
If the Republicans are smart they will realize that the only way to savage their party is to basically stop running it from a Southern Baptist church.
I was born and raised Catholic, attended a Catholic school my entire life and although I have many liberal views on certain issues, I have some conservative ones as well.
I personally don’t understand the Evangelical mentality. I certainly understand why they have most of the views they have; it’s the extremist, fanatical way they present their views that I don’t understand. I know many Evangelicals and most (not all, but most)I find to be some of the most ingeniune, judgmental and downright mean people I’ve ever met. For people that claim to have such a high, moral regard for promoting Christianity – they often display behavior that I don’t consider very Christ-like.
I can’t tell you how many times that I have been told by Evangelical Christians (you don’t know me or my views) that they don’t consider somebody that is Catholic as even a Christian. I find this statement so offensive. Frankly, they seem obsessed with the Bible – as if that’s the only thing they think about, the only thing they read, they seem to cling to Scriptures that support their beliefs and ignore one’s that don’t. And anybody, anybody (even other Christians) who don’t believe EXACTLY what they believe or intepret words EXACTLY as they do – are immoral, don’t know God and everybody but them are going to hel*.
We took our 8 year old son to vote and some wacko was standing there with a sign that read “If you vote for Obama, then that means you like to kill babies as much as he does” – oh and it gets better – there was a picture of a bloody baby! I then had to spend about an hour talking to an eight year old about the complex issues of abortion (to his level of course) to try to calm his fear that if Obama got elected that he would not try to kill him! How appalling! And although I’m certainly not saying that every Evangelical Christian behaves in this manner; sadly this is not uncommon for some Evangelicals to act like this – I’ve seen it many times. Not only is it insulting, they make a complete a** out of themselves.
I understand that they feel it is their job to “spead the gospel”, but I just wish for once that they would realize that if a person is so offended by the messenger that they don’t hear the message – what’s the point? Not only is there no point, it could actually do more harm – if you can’t conduct yourself in a decent way – it’s just better to keep your mouth shut.
I will say in advance that I apologize if I have offended any Evangelical Christian who doesn’t behavior like this – I know there are many that don’t. But sadly – the majority that I know, do often act like this.
Not upset about GOD. I don,t go to church very much and so forth. However he is my savior. I sin 24/7 and love ice cold budwiser watching collage football, basketball. I love grilling,rock,soul,country,blues country and bluegrass music. It,s the christain right that makes me barf. Ye without sin,but they support war,point others out who don,t share their views and hold THE GOP hostage. I have heard some vile things from them that make the Rev.Wright seem mild.
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If they do, then that will be their doom — at least from my perspective.
The Republican party will never get my vote again. They need to disavow themselves from the evangelical right. They do that, I guarantee they will get a huge influx of voters that far outweigh the religious right.
November 10th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
If they don,t let modrates take charge, THE GOP is doom. Abortion and gay rights seems to be the only thing they can fuss about and their is alot of sin out their. It sickens me that the evangelicals think they are the only 1,s that GOD is close too. Seperation of church and state is a must. It scares me to have a state run church telling me what to do. Look what to GERMANDY.
November 10th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
“It sickens me that the evangelicals think they are the only 1,s that GOD is close too.” posted by Steve
I’m sorry Steve if I offended you in anyway concerning this. If you’re close to God, you should feel healing soon.
November 10th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Yes, they will. They’re trying to rebuild their base. Right now the excuse for losing the election is that Bush and McC weren’t conservative enough. They have to reestablish the Republican Party as THE Conservative Party.
Call me an idealist, or a woman living in some sort of alternate fantasy world, but what I’d like to see from this is the emergence of a STRONG and EFFECTIVE third party. Not the conservative Christians, but the Conservatives period… (Libertarian ticket, anyone??? Maybe a Green one?).
November 10th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
And btw, my stomach did churn a little today when I read an article stating that Obama will provide more funds to stem cell research than Bush did. Why? Christianity aside, we have yet to come to a SCIENTIFIC conclusion and accepted consensus on WHEN life begins.
November 10th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Of all the things to feel thankful for right now, #1 must be the coming split in the Republicans between the standard conservatives and the churchy nutjobs. They will tear themselves to shreds now and my bet is there will be three parties contesting the next election – Dems, Reps and Fundies. Should be a good while before they can challenge for the top jobs again.
Isn’t that lovely :)
November 10th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Steve, It’s true that if a lie is told often enough and loud enough, that people will believe it is true. There is nothing in the constitution that talks or hints of separation of church and state.
November 10th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
When life begins: I think it is a philosophical question rather than a scientific question. As such we each may decide…
November 10th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
4Patriots:
First line of the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution =
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
When you introduce legislation that is based on a religious belief, you violate the 1st Amendment.
Just for the record, I am against abortion except in the case of rape. In all other cases, the woman decided to have her fun, and must live with the consequences or result of that fun. I think the father of the child should also be legally required to pay support, and be jailed if he doesn’t pay that support.
In the case of rape, the woman was forced against her will, and I don’t think that she should be raped again every day of her life when she looks at the child, nor do I think the child deserves to have a mother that will look at him/her with doubt, distress, or even hate.
Adoption can be an option if the potential mother wishes it, be it against her religious views or whatnot.
November 10th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Budda~ I kind of agree… but we, as a people, have to come to some sort of comprimise on this. It’s such a HUGE issue. We have to agree on something.
A mother who loses her 5 month old “fetus” in a car accident is as justified for retribution as the mother who lost her six month old “baby”. You know?
For the sake of our country (and the world, when you think about that this is a global issue) we MUST come to a consensus.
November 10th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
By the time I knew I was pregnant by my son’s deadbeat father, I was past 5 weeks, which is when the heart starts to beat. I couldn’t in good conscience terminate the pregnancy after I knew he had a heart beat.
Not trying to get everyone fired up, I’m just illustrating how important it is for us to WORK TOGETHER to develop a definition of when life begins.
November 10th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
“When life begins: I think it is a philosophical question rather than a scientific question. As such we each may decide” posted by Budda
Budda and anyone else, when did you decide you were going to be born? Don’t know do you?
Do you remember being in your mother’s womb? No. I didn’t think so.
If you can’t come up with the answers philosophically, try scientifically.
When that fails, read Jeremiah 1:4-5
November 11th, 2008 at 12:20 am
The GOP should rename themselves the CCCP: Christian Corporate Capitalism Party.
I’m sure it’s simply a coincidence that the acronym CCCP also stands for Союз Советских Социалистических Республик, the moniker of the former Soviet Union.
November 11th, 2008 at 1:02 am
From Jim from Jersey: ” First line of the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution =
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”
Agreed, that is the first line, but I disagree with your interpretation. That does not mean anything near that the church cannot be involved in politics. If you take the time to go back and study the history of the constitution, you may come to the same interpretation. It simply means, the state cannot make one religion for all. The church was always intended to be the guardian.
On the subject of when life begins….until we can all come to a consensus of when life begins, why can’t we fall on the side of life instead of the side of death? If we don’t want capital punishment because someone might be innocent and that we would find out in the future, why not give the innocent baby or fetus the same consideration? If we decide that life begins in the womb and we realize we have murdered millions of babies, how then can we justify that?
November 11th, 2008 at 1:43 am
There won’t be a consensus. Most people (rightly IMHO) assume that life begins when there is an independent heartbeat. But there are the people who keep trying to inject religion into government who may disagree.
The Constitution drafters were pissed off at the Crown for denying them basic liberties and imposing taxes though the colonies did not receive direct representation in Parliament. The King acted in the name of God. Because of Divine Right – people were brought up to believe that defying the king was morally wrong, un-Christian, and would result in being smited. They made certain when drafting the amendment that one in power would not have that sway over peoples liberties by writing it to be secular.
November 11th, 2008 at 1:58 am
“the belief in the free markets (oh, like bailing out private companies?)”
It immediately jumped to my mind that Mike Pence opposed the bailout and took me about 10 seconds to confirm it. Crack research staff you have there, Alan.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28751
November 11th, 2008 at 2:28 am
“The Separation of Church and State’ is a well established concept based on the 1st Amendment to the Constitution.
The Phrase itself was coined by a cergyman in the 17th century.
The basis for the amendment was Jefferson’s clause in Virginia’s Constitution regarding religious freedom.
Madison carried it over into the US Constitution via the 1st Amendment.
Jefferson and Madison have both referred to the ’separation of Church and State’ in the Federalist Papers, showing that is what they meant the 1st Amendment to mean.
It has served us well; if sometimes ignored by certain factions.
Just because the exact words aren’t there, doesn’t mean that the concept isn’t there and valid.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:09 am
The tradition and cultural history have, since civilization began, considered ‘life’ to begin at birth.
The Constitution even states that your rights start at birth.
You are given a ‘birth certificate’ not a ‘conception certificate’. The list goes on and on, so I won’t itemize further except to note that abortion was known during biblical times, yet it’s not mentioned at all in the bible.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:14 am
If they REALLY wanted abortion to be illegal, it would be illegal already.
Let’s give it up for now, and address the problems that are sending our country down the toilet.
I don’t have a problem addressing gay rights and abortion once things like, y’know, health care, economy, war in the Middle East, collapsing infrastructure, record deficits and increasing unemployments are, uh, maybe considered first.
Sometimes Republicans act just like the Kevin Bacon character in Animal House who screams, “REMAIN CALM! ALL IS WELL!” during the parade riot scene.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Not upset about GOD. I don,t go to church very much and so forth. However he is my savior. I sin 24/7 and love ice cold budwiser watching collage football, basketball. I love grilling,rock,soul,country,blues country and bluegrass music. It,s the christain right that makes me barf. Ye without sin,but they support war,point others out who don,t share their views and hold THE GOP hostage. I have heard some vile things from them that make the Rev.Wright seem mild.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
If the Republicans are smart they will realize that the only way to savage their party is to basically stop running it from a Southern Baptist church.
I was born and raised Catholic, attended a Catholic school my entire life and although I have many liberal views on certain issues, I have some conservative ones as well.
I personally don’t understand the Evangelical mentality. I certainly understand why they have most of the views they have; it’s the extremist, fanatical way they present their views that I don’t understand. I know many Evangelicals and most (not all, but most)I find to be some of the most ingeniune, judgmental and downright mean people I’ve ever met. For people that claim to have such a high, moral regard for promoting Christianity – they often display behavior that I don’t consider very Christ-like.
I can’t tell you how many times that I have been told by Evangelical Christians (you don’t know me or my views) that they don’t consider somebody that is Catholic as even a Christian. I find this statement so offensive. Frankly, they seem obsessed with the Bible – as if that’s the only thing they think about, the only thing they read, they seem to cling to Scriptures that support their beliefs and ignore one’s that don’t. And anybody, anybody (even other Christians) who don’t believe EXACTLY what they believe or intepret words EXACTLY as they do – are immoral, don’t know God and everybody but them are going to hel*.
We took our 8 year old son to vote and some wacko was standing there with a sign that read “If you vote for Obama, then that means you like to kill babies as much as he does” – oh and it gets better – there was a picture of a bloody baby! I then had to spend about an hour talking to an eight year old about the complex issues of abortion (to his level of course) to try to calm his fear that if Obama got elected that he would not try to kill him! How appalling! And although I’m certainly not saying that every Evangelical Christian behaves in this manner; sadly this is not uncommon for some Evangelicals to act like this – I’ve seen it many times. Not only is it insulting, they make a complete a** out of themselves.
I understand that they feel it is their job to “spead the gospel”, but I just wish for once that they would realize that if a person is so offended by the messenger that they don’t hear the message – what’s the point? Not only is there no point, it could actually do more harm – if you can’t conduct yourself in a decent way – it’s just better to keep your mouth shut.
I will say in advance that I apologize if I have offended any Evangelical Christian who doesn’t behavior like this – I know there are many that don’t. But sadly – the majority that I know, do often act like this.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
When life begins is not a philosophical question. It is a biological question. Things/people/everything around us are either alive or dead.
As for abortion being illegal. Should it be a national or state issue? In my personal opinion, let us vote on it. You might be as surprised as the californians who didn’t think prop 8 would go the way it did.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Agreed for once, T. The beginning of life is indeed a biological question, but the answer is in the ovary and in the testicle. When they get together it is an event in both lives in which they merge for their mutual benefit.
Those Catholic nuns and priests must surely be headed for the eternal fire for preventing so many poor defenceless little eggs and spermatazoa from fulfilling their potential.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Who is responsible for the recession? Obama said Sean Hannity!!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 10:10 pm