Journalist and shoe-hurler Muntadar al-Zaidi’s brother, Zhurgham, says Muntadadr was beaten up inside and outside the hall, he has a broken arm, his left side is damanged, and one of his ribs is broken. One of the security guards punched him in the face, broke his glasses, and possibly damaged his eyesight.
Shoe Boy goes before the Iraqi Judge and complains of bruises to his face.
Where’s the broken rib and broken arm Alan assures us Shoe Boy suffered?
It’s obvious that Alan believes anything bad said about the USA, not even quesioning the rhetoric from people known to hate us.
“The whole idea that to preserve the rights of some we have to take rights away from others is absurd. I still do not understand for the life of me why there is a problem with someone expressing their religious beliefs at school, etc. You have people everywhere who deny the existence of God and we are told it is their right. What about the rights of Christians?”
Atheists go about expressing their atheism with their right to free speech,personal beliefs. That does not give believers the right to do the same in a PROFESSIONAL situation. If an atheist does it in a professional situation, its against his/her implicit professional contract with his employer, and the same holds for believers. The employer being a private individual, he/she can set whatever standards he/she wants. WHen the employer is the state, you have no choice but to follow the spirit of what the state has mandated for itself, to separate religion from state. If you dont like that, change the constitution, and redefine USA as the Christian United States of AMerica, and then have state employees free to practice,preach their personal religious beliefs(including atheism) in a professional situation.
Otherwise,as I’ve said before, you’re a hypocrite, calling yourself a secular state with religion allegedly clearly separated from state, whereas in reality you have no intention of respecting that separation.
What about the rights of Christians?
They’re the same as everyone else’s. And just like everyone else’s, they don’t include using tax dollars to promote their religious beliefs in public schools
If a belief isn’t a threat to you, then you shouldn’t have a problem with someone expressing it.
We keep telling you we don’t care. Just don’t force us to listen to it.
They’re the same as everyone else’s. And just like everyone else’s, they don’t include using tax dollars to promote their religious beliefs in public schools.
We keep telling you we don’t care. Just don’t force us to listen to it.
The whole idea that to preserve the rights of some we have to take rights away from others is absurd. I still do not understand for the life of me why there is a problem with someone expressing their religious beliefs at school, etc. You have people everywhere who deny the existence of God and we are told it is their right. What about the rights of Christians?
Just like the whole atheist plaque that was placed right beside the nativity scene. They didn’t do that to express their religious belief, they did that to enrage Christians, cause a stir, and start trouble.
If a belief isn’t a threat to you, then you shouldn’t have a problem with someone expressing it.
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The buffoon was lucky he was not killed. The secret service here would have pump a 100 bullets into him. I am not a b ush fan,but you can not do this to the no.1 leader in the world.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:57 am
The guy deserved what he got because of the stupidity of his actions. He HAD to know that he would be getting an ass whoopin at least when he threw the shoes. He’s lucky Saddam was hanged and is no longer in power otherwise he may be hobbling around on two footless stumps!
December 18th, 2008 at 1:00 am
2 footless stumps. That,s a good 1 as well.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:07 am
Saddam doesn’t have to answer the claims made against the Iraqi authorities. He’s dead, and his past actions are not a justification for abuses committed today. The circumstances underwhich Zeidi received his alleged injuries aren’t factually established. He could have received them from how he was tackled, or have been injured well after the initial detainment. In the latter case, that it was abuse is more likely.
Furthermore, it’s not a defense to say Saddam would’ve been worse. That’s bullyish rationalizing. It’s saying that so long as only one leg is broken, instead of both, the victim should be greatful, because it didn’t happen under the tyrant’s reign. How can the utter absurdity of that premise not be blatantly obvious. Can abusive adoptive parents say the same to their adopted children? “Well, Johnny, yes, I left bruises on your back, but your real father beat you daily and fractured several of your bones. So be greatful, you little (expletive)”!
December 18th, 2008 at 6:43 am
I think Bush should be tried as a war criminal, but I don’t condone the shoe-throwing.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:56 am
I just cracked 2 of MikeB302000’s ribs. But Saddam would’ve broken 8 of them. Mike should thank me for my mercy. Right?
December 18th, 2008 at 7:05 am
A war criminal, Mike???
December 18th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Sorry, Alan, this dude deserved it. If it had been Barack Obama I would feel the same way. You can’t do stuff to a President and expect to not get roughed up (or even maimed). Most countries in the world would execute someone who performed such an act.
Hey, Mike, war criminal based on what? Should FDR be tried as a war criminal? His decision to enter WWII killed a TON of people. Truman? Give me a break.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:52 am
You want to try our President as a war criminal? What exactly is he guilty of?
The world has turned upside down
December 18th, 2008 at 9:55 am
It’s beyond belief that ANYONE would think that if Bill Clinton had done what Bush/Cheney did, and there were no wmd, so many dead, the wiretapping, and abu Ghraib, and a Republican congress, that he would noT be in the Hague or in Leavenworth.
Please!
December 18th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Uh….He threw his shoes. Not even John Hinckley Jr. was beaten up so hard, and he actually SHOT Reagan.
Then again, Hinckley’s family was well acquainted with the Bush family at the time.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Old,
Do you think clinton has a clean nose? If you do, you are wrong. He has a laundry list of things he was accused of.
Somalia and blackhawk down
lewinsky
white water
the aspirin plant
juanita broddick
paula jones
Just to name a few.
If we were to go by your logic, then let’s lock up every president who has used military force in the past.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Reagan wasn’t shot in Iraq where their ideas of justice are far different from ours. If he had been shot in Iraq, he might have left that press conference in a body bag.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:18 am
T. Mason,
I thought we went into Iraq to “liberate” the country and impose democracy into it. That point being, if we would have succeeded in Iraq, maybe the guy wouldn’t have gotten beat up, but instead tried and charged. Goes to show how effective this useless war has really been.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:34 am
diego,
Who are WE to tell them how to run their justice system? They were liberated or the guy probably would have been hanged by now.
Sadam was notorious for taking his own pistol out and finishing anyone who gave him problems. OR having his henchman do it for him.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:40 am
T. Mason,
No, I don’t think that Clinton has a clean nose, but I don’t think these thing come close.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am
I was slightly amused by the whole thing. I certainly do think that the President should not be subjected to something like this. He did have good reflexes in dodging the shoe.
But here’s something else. We’re supposedly in Iraq to “LIBERATE” this nation and to bring “DEMOCRACY” to a nation that is still governed more by tribal traditions and in the shadow of Saddam Hussein. But this story points out to me, that, try as they may, their culture is still stuck in the Middle Ages, judging by how they treated this guy. Guess he won’t be ready for the shot put in the Desert Olympics any time soon.
It does show me that no matter how things may seem to improve there, the mores, values and morals of the Iraqi people are not going to change any time soon.
I was against the war from the beginning since I didn’t think that democracy would ever work with these people. And this is just a little something that proves my point.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to one and all.
Alan, a Happy Hannukah to you and your family
December 18th, 2008 at 10:55 am
So that justifies him getting beat up? I don’t think so. Sadam is past. I would accept that claim if we wouldn’t have invaded Iraq, but we did… The guy wouldn’t have been hung if we wouldn’t have “liberated” Iraq. Bush wouldn’t have been there to throw his shoes at in the first place and I’m sure he threw the shoes at him because he didn’t like what Bush is doing to his country. They (Iraqis) are the ones that are witnessing this war first hand. They are the ones that know what’s going on over there. For one of them to have such reaction goes to show that they don’t like what we have done with their country.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Old,
There were lives lost under clinton. American and foreign. There were lives lost during WW2 and vietnam. Should those presidents have been jailed
December 18th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Diego, no it does not justify him getting beat up. But, and I ask you to remember this, you are judging this incident by the standards that we live by. They have a whole different take on something like this over there. What I was saying is that it is THEIR way of protesting and the response is THEIR way of responding to this protest. And this type of thing has gone on since their days of traveling in their own caravans, that’s all.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:03 am
T: “Reagan wasn’t shot in Iraq where their ideas of justice are far different from ours. If he had been shot in Iraq, he might have left that press conference in a body bag.”
At least, that’s what you’d have hoped, right?
I thought we were in Iraq to introduce OUR ideas of justice and democracy. If not, then what are we doing over there?
Oh, now I remember what you said. We’re putting our military members’ lives on the line, fighting the terrorists over THERE, so we can be “safe and comfy,” as you say, over HERE.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:07 am
You know, Diego, I think another reason to get out of the Middle East is because our ideas of democracy and civilization are beginning to resemble that of the Middle East’s.
Defending the maiming of shoe-throwers (that even the president is laughing off), the growing intolerance in the Christian fundamentalist movement, the insertion of religion into our schools, the dwindling economy, the suspension of habeas corpus, the view that marriage is a “privelege,” the insistence that the President has the highest authority to act with utter impunity.
Granted, we have a long way to go, but it’s pretty interesting times we live in.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Sarah,
Why do you insist on being snarky about everything? I posted a FACT and you turn it around to try and make it appear that I wanted the guy to die. You also tried to make it sound like I want military members to die or be injured? You really are pathetic.
Can you deny that sadam was guilty of doing what I posted? Can you deny that his henchman were guilty of doing what I posted? Can you deny that the guy probably would have already lost his life if he had thrown his shoe at the dictator?
And when you snidely say “our military members’ lives are one the line I take that personally considering I have a lot of friends and family over there. They do their job all the while people like YOU try to use them to make your weak political points.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:13 am
There were lives lost under clinton. American and foreign. There were lives lost during WW2 and vietnam. Should those presidents have been jailed
Posted by T. Mason
………………………
No, but they did not lie us into war, for their own nefarious purposes.
While you can argue that there is no absolute proof, that Bush/Cheney did, if we are too cowardly to investigate, we will never know.
Again, it’s like the indulgent parent who feels that “If Little Pookie is REALLY as guilty as the teacher, school, coach etc say, I’d rather not know about it”, and puts their rose colored glasses back on.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:18 am
And BTW, there is NO insertion of religion into our public schools. I have 2 in public school. They do not pray before school, they do not exchange christmas presents, they do not celebrate easter at school, etc. I don’t know where you get that religion is being inserted into public schools. It is quite the opposite if you talk to Christian families.
You could argue that islam is being inserted if you consider that UNC required their incoming freshman to purchase the qu’ran way back in 2002 (don’t know if they still do it today)
December 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
T: “Why do you insist on being snarky about everything?”
Ha! I’m not even reading past this choice little sentence, it’s not worth the time or effort.
Hey, pot! You’re black, too!
December 18th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Old,
I will say again. If we follow your premise George Bush and Dick Cheney are the smartest men alive. If we believe that they lied to every person who voted YES to the war and they believed them….then they are brilliant.
Do you honestly think if the democrats in washington even thought for one second that bush had lied to them that they wouldn’t impeach him?
all the while you and other liberals come on here and blast him for being a total bafoon.
The fact is, clinton said WAY before bush took office and even right before bush took office that sadam was a threat and he had WMD’s. other democrats in washington echoed the same sentiment. Did they lie too?
You can’t have it both ways.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:23 am
I post my opinion. YOU my dear make it personal. ALWAYS
December 18th, 2008 at 11:24 am
T: “And BTW, there is NO insertion of religion into our public schools…It is quite the opposite if you talk to Christian families.”
Many of whom are disappointed that their attempts to insert religion in public schools often fail. Yet they persist in trying.
I attended a public high school graduation last summer in which 3 hymns were sung, 2 Christian prayers were said, and every speech contained the words “Jesus Christ” in them.
Gideons are given class time to hand out Bibles. Prayers are said before football games. These are just instances that spring to mind.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:32 am
T: “I post my opinion. YOU my dear make it personal. ALWAYS”
Again, I say— Pot, you’re black, too.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
They are as persistent as those who want to ban any kind of religion anywhere, anytime.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:34 am
“I will say again. If we follow your premise George Bush and Dick Cheney are the smartest men alive. If we believe that they lied to every person who voted YES to the war and they believed them….then they are brilliant.”
…………………………….
They don’t have to be brilliant. They just have assume that those they are lying to are dumb, lazy, and frightened of power, and assume the same of the media and the American people.
************************************
“Do you honestly think if the democrats in washington even thought for one second that bush had lied to them that they wouldn’t impeach him?”
………………………….
Yes, I DO think so. I think they know that they, the media and the American people know they were duped, but they also know they were willing accomplices.
Now everyone just wants to tiptoe backwards out of the room and look away.
The Clinton impeachment was entertaining and fun for people, but lies about war and death make people uncomfortable, and it would take more courage than any elected officials have, for anyone to force us all to look in the mirror.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:48 am
DIEGO—We have liberated Iraq. They have a constitution, a legislative body of freely elected officials, are preparing for another round of elections, and not under the control of brutal, genocidal dictator. If that isn’t liberated, then what is?
I agree that if the injuries being claimed are accurate and if they occurred while being held in custody, it is a terrible thing that should not be condoned.
However, please consider these points. Here in the US, we have police officers get in trouble for excessive force quite often. Just yesterday there was a story about the policeman in, I think NY, who pushed a bicyclist off his bike being charged. There seems to be a story once every two or three months of a police officer some where getting in trouble because he excepted sexual favors in return for not righting a ticket.
My other point is consider that Saddam ran that country into the ground during his 20+ years. How much of a set back do you think that sort of brutal rule was to the development of social skills in Iraq? How much of a set back was it to pyschological development of people who are now trying to learn how to lead a country?
I’m not saying that police abuse is right. I’m not saying that this journalist should have been beaten up. I’m not saying that anyone involved with excessive force or abuse on the journalist should be excused. But they are literally 50+ years behind the rest of the developed world thanks to Saddam. They can’t be expected to make it up in 5 years.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:57 am
LEFTY—I think you are right. We as a country need to hold our elected officials much more accountable than we do.
Also, we definitely need to look in the mirror. I know I often need to. My concern is that if we don’t look in the mirror, both personally and as a collective country, that we won’t have to worry about outside threats because we will tear ourselves apart from the inside out.
I don’t think President Bush and his administration to be as nefarious as you do. (Please note, I’m not knocking your opinion.) I’m glad to see you feel elected officials from both parties are neglecting their duty, not just conservatives.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
T. MASON & SARAH—My problem with the issue of religion in public schools has more to do with preventing kids from being able to practice their faith, if they have one.
Why can there be a gay club, chess club, math club, academic club, but not a prayer club? Why can students support abortion, but not protest it? Why can students assemble to support gay rights or any other rights you want to throw in, but can’t have a Christian Athletes group? I mean, as long as membership to a group, I’ll even say particularly to a religious group, isn’t mandatory, what is the big deal?
Personally, the schools are way too politized. Just teach the students math, science, history, reading, and grammar. Make computer skills, industrial skills, home economic skills, and farm skills available and encouraged. Teach the students how to think, not what to think.
Because these things don’t happen, along with the lack of authority given to teachers to take disciplinary action, we home school. And we don’t let a zero count as a fifty.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Ah, the overreaching generalizations spouted to divide, not unite:
T Mason: “They are as persistent as those who want to ban any kind of religion anywhere, anytime.”
First of all, contrary to popular neocon belief, FEW Americans want to ban the private observance of religion, churches, etc. I know of no one who does, in fact. Perhaps some lunatic fringe or wacky groups of which I’m not aware.
Second, the persistence to separate church from state arose because of the very churches and church members who seek to infiltrate all facets of publicly-supported institutions for their own gain.
As a matter of fact, it has often been CHRISTIANS who have had to change their minds about allowing religious groups to proselytize to their children in school, after the other CHRISTIAN groups began to tell their children that their parents’ Christian beliefs were wrong or errant.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
TRA, if you think schools are politicized now, the addition of religion only adds fuel to the fire.
I’ll agree with you on this point:
“Just teach the students math, science, history, reading, and grammar. Make computer skills, industrial skills, home economic skills, and farm skills available and encouraged. Teach the students how to think, not what to think.”
Absolutely. Keep religion in churches and homes, and concentrate on knowledge in schools. Beautifully said.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
TRA,
You made my point better than I did. What irks me the most is SO many groups are allowed in the school but christians aren’t.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
TRA,
I will add this. You said teach the students how to think not what to think. Did you see the guy who reviews history books and has found a bazillion errors that our kids are learing in public schools? most of them are liberal biased.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Tra,
I don’t think you are knocking anyone’s opinion.
The people left and the right probably agree on mant things just disagree on how to get there.
I think that elected officials should be viewed much as we see the babysitter.
You not only have a right but you have an obligation to point out if the babysitter is abusing the baby….then bring on the evidence and we’ll see.
The worst thing is to take the attitude: “WE don’t hire babysitters who abuse the baby!!”, then turn a blind eye.
Well gotta go and see why half the strings of lights are out….. AGAIN!
Usually they don’t do this till Christmas eve.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Old,
You have Christmas lights? Does your house look like the Griswold’s?
December 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
T Mason, could you provide links that support your textbook-error claim? I tried Googling it but only found something pertaining to The Phillipines.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
SARAH—You said”…the addition of religion only adds fuel to the fire.” I can slightly see that being a possibility from this perspective—if a rivalry developed between say a Jewish student group and a Christian student group, or between any two religious groups.
I think it is more likely though that those rivalries already exist in everyday school life for the students. Just like there are all kinds of other cliques in schools.
Keep the groups that are directly related to education…math groups, debate clubs, history clubs, science clubs, etc. But if religious clubs or groups can’t be started, regardless of the religion, I don’t think groups based on race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation should be allowed either.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
T.MASON—I have not heard that, but I wouldn’t be surprised that there are inaccuracies in the history books.
I remember when I was in school that we had a hard time ever making it to the end of the book, so we didn’t seem to ever really learn alot about Korea or Vietnam, as we usually only made it WWII. Did anyone else experience that? What about today’s kids, 20 years later? I wonder if they ever hear about the first gulf war, Iran Contra, the Iraq-Iran war, the fall of the Berlin wall, etc.?
December 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Kudos to Diego and Sarah.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
T. Mason,
No, my house does not look like the Griswold’s, but even if I wanted it to, Half of most strings go out, so there are big gaps.
Actually, I just came in now for some gloves.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
TRA: “But if religious clubs or groups can’t be started, regardless of the religion, I don’t think groups based on race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation should be allowed either.”
TRA, no one chooses their race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation (although many religious people would quarrel about the last one).
Religion is a CHOICE. It is highly electrified. It is nebulous and ever-changing, and its survival depends on converting others to the faith.
TRA: “I think it is more likely though that those rivalries already exist in everyday school life for the students. Just like there are all kinds of other cliques in schools.”
I’d agree. So why heap on another layer of cliques and rivalries? Let the parents and churches take charge of students’ spirituality. The schools are already having to make up for the fact the students don’t learn about sex from home.
Incidentally, I SO agree with you about the “Wait? What about the Korean War?” observation.
Once the Archduke Ferdinand got shot, we were pretty well into the last gasps of the school year. I had to watch a few episodes of “Black Adder” before I became interested in learning about WWI.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Sarah, do you deny our Judeo-Christian tradition in this country? Do you seek to slowly eradicate it by constantly marginalizing it as just a “religion” and not a strong cultural pillar of this country? This country was founded on freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM it.
In addition, it was never, ever intended for our government to be atheist. It’s just false. It WAS intended for our government not to be “Baptist” or “Catholic” or “Methodist” or what have you. Recognizing the self-evident truths that we come from a loving God à la “all men are CREATED equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR…” is part of our sacred tradition and culture.
I don’t expect everyone to endorse Christianity or even recognize the existence of God. That doesn’t change our tradition or culture.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Flapp, do you deny that religion is a choice? Do you deny that it was based on freedom of religion, and as such, we need to respect the beliefs of others by not forcing our own beliefs upon them?
You seem to be shifting gears in your post. At one point, you ask “do you deny our Judeo-Christian tradition in this country?” but then you say, “It WAS intended for our government not to be ‘Baptist’ or ‘Catholic’ or ‘Methodist’ or what have you.”
I think you might be on to something: If religious inferences in our public lives had kept strictly to bland, Judeo-Christian, Deist references…”Under God,” or “In God We Trust”….it might not have been as unnerving to the rest of us.
Unfortunately, Christian denominations began throwing stones at each other: Lutheran students targeted by Baptists. Nazarenes targeted by Baptists. Fundamentalists push Creationism in public schools.
In the past 20 years, it’s gotten a lot messier, a lot less holy, and a lot more divisive.
So really, anymore, excluding religion from our public life altogether would, in my opinion, save religion from itself.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
And I say that as a Missouri Synod Lutheran, by the way.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I graduated about three years ago and I know for a fact that religious clubs were allowed in my school. There was definitely a prayer group that got together every morning with expressed permission to pray at the flag pole. So there you have it TRA. Religious clubs/groups are allowed to gather at public schools. All that schools do is maintain religion away from mandated education, as it should be.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
DIEGO: Thanks for sharing about the religious clubs in your school.
Do you remember any problems caused by those clubs? Or maybe problems caused by others directed at those clubs?
Were students forced to join those groups?
Did you personally have a problem with those students or clubs?
I don’t ask these as “gotcha” questions. I try really hard not to that sort of thing. Since you were in a school that allowed a prayer group, I am just curious about your observations and thoughts.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
SARAH: My apologies, but this is a bit long. Please bear with me.
You said, “In the past 20 years, it’s gotten a lot messier, a lot less holy, and a lot more divisive”
I would lean more toward about 45 years ago. (1962 is when official prayer was banned from public school.) I’m actually joking about this. Please read my entire post before you cast me off a complete wacko.
Look, I am a devout Christian. I believe the Bible is inerrant; that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man; that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin; faced temptations yet lived a perfect, sinless life; died on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for all the sins of world; on the third day rose from the dead; and then was ascended into heaven about 40 days after he rose. And all we have to do is be willing to accept this gift and believe in it in order to be saved.
However, and this may surprise you, I am glad that the courts ruled that there can be no official prayer in school. Just as a Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, Buddhist, etc would not want an official prayer to be a Christian prayer, I would not want an official prayer to be one of those other religions I mentioned. So I am ok with not having official prayer in school. I am not ok with not allowing private, personal prayer or personal reading of the Bible or any other religious book.
Also, I suspect I have a different view on the sexual orientation question than most. Maybe not, but I think I do.
Basically, I believe no one is born homosexual, probably for obvious reasons now. I believe that “being homosexual” is more correctly described as “practicing homosexual behavior”. I don’t believe there is a homosexual gene if you will.
However, I am not ready to say that everyone who practices homosexuality has a choice in the matter either. I say this because there are so many environmental factors that can and do affect the mindset and pysche of people in varied ways.
So, for example, if there was a young person who was sexually abused by someone of the opposite sex, I could see the person being abused turning to homosexuality as a defense mechanism. They may not even realize it and certainly not be able to control it, so therefore, they have no choice in the matter.
Again, my apologies for the length of this post. Thanks for your patience.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
The whole idea that to preserve the rights of some we have to take rights away from others is absurd. I still do not understand for the life of me why there is a problem with someone expressing their religious beliefs at school, etc. You have people everywhere who deny the existence of God and we are told it is their right. What about the rights of Christians?
Just like the whole atheist plaque that was placed right beside the nativity scene. They didn’t do that to express their religious belief, they did that to enrage Christians, cause a stir, and start trouble.
If a belief isn’t a threat to you, then you shouldn’t have a problem with someone expressing it.
December 18th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
They’re the same as everyone else’s. And just like everyone else’s, they don’t include using tax dollars to promote their religious beliefs in public schools.
We keep telling you we don’t care. Just don’t force us to listen to it.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
They’re the same as everyone else’s. And just like everyone else’s, they don’t include using tax dollars to promote their religious beliefs in public schools
We keep telling you we don’t care. Just don’t force us to listen to it.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
“The whole idea that to preserve the rights of some we have to take rights away from others is absurd. I still do not understand for the life of me why there is a problem with someone expressing their religious beliefs at school, etc. You have people everywhere who deny the existence of God and we are told it is their right. What about the rights of Christians?”
Atheists go about expressing their atheism with their right to free speech,personal beliefs. That does not give believers the right to do the same in a PROFESSIONAL situation. If an atheist does it in a professional situation, its against his/her implicit professional contract with his employer, and the same holds for believers. The employer being a private individual, he/she can set whatever standards he/she wants. WHen the employer is the state, you have no choice but to follow the spirit of what the state has mandated for itself, to separate religion from state. If you dont like that, change the constitution, and redefine USA as the Christian United States of AMerica, and then have state employees free to practice,preach their personal religious beliefs(including atheism) in a professional situation.
Otherwise,as I’ve said before, you’re a hypocrite, calling yourself a secular state with religion allegedly clearly separated from state, whereas in reality you have no intention of respecting that separation.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:58 am
Shoe Boy goes before the Iraqi Judge and complains of bruises to his face.
Where’s the broken rib and broken arm Alan assures us Shoe Boy suffered?
It’s obvious that Alan believes anything bad said about the USA, not even quesioning the rhetoric from people known to hate us.
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:32 pm