Man Awarded $240,000 For Being Forced To Cover T-Shirt
January 6th, 2009, 3:36 PM EST
It happened in 2006. Raed Jarrar was apprehended while waiting to board a Jet Blue flight from New York to Oakland and told to remove his t-shirt which had “We will not be silent” written in Arabic. Other passengers were uncomfortable, he was told, because wearing sometning with Arabic lettering was like wearing a t-shirt at a bank saying “I am a robber.” Jarrar covered his shirt with one provided by the airline, and had his seat moved from the front to the back of the plane.
The payout will come from Jet Blue and from two US Transportation Security Authority officials. Just last week six family members were removed from an AirTran flight because an overheard conversation made passengers uncomfortable.
Wow, whoever decided that was worth 240K to this dude was as nutty as the people who told him to remove the shirt in the first place.
He should have received an apology and a free Jet Blue t-shirt (OK, maybe a couple flight vouchers too).
January 6th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
How about i wear a shirt with BO’s head on a stick in DC next week. Do you think secret service will be a little conserned. This guy needs to be wearing a shirt that says ” Your standing next to stupid “
January 6th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Seperate man,
How do you compare what is basically ‘I’ll excerise my right to free speech”, to a death threat to a president?
January 6th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Unbelievable, Air Tran! A t-shirt saying “we will not be silent” = a terrorist…I’ve seen worse on teenage kids t-shirts on their way to school! Paranoia is good in certain instances, but this was way off the mark.
Did anyone hear of the guy who was trying to get on a Southwest airplane wearing a mini skirt (with the underwear). he was told to put on a pair of pants before he got on the plane. Question is…if he were a woman wearing the mini skirt would anyone bother with him?
January 6th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
I think that is a great idea, Seperate Man. Please do wear that t-shirt.
(And learn to spell words like ‘concerned’ in posts where you call people stupid) (if you are going to make it a habit to call people stupid, I guess it would be a good idea to learn how to spell words like ‘Separate’ as well)
January 6th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
There happy. I’ll make sure to spell check and grammer check every post you do Cara! Common sense is not finding mistyped words, its not wearing a “Arabic” shirt on an “Airplane” after “911″ saying how they will not be silient.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Oh, and oldlefty, wasn’t it freedom of speech the excuse of wearing a shirt wanting to kill Bush?
January 6th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
I only chide people for spelling when they are calling other people stupid. But really, one should spell one’s name correctly, at least.
But sure, my grammar sucks – I’ll look forward to your free proofreading service.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Where can I get one of these shirts.? I’m flying soon and could use $240,000.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Wow,
One crazy overreaction penalized by another crazy overreaction.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Oh, and oldlefty, wasn’t it freedom of speech the excuse of wearing a shirt wanting to kill Bush?
Posted by Separate man
……………………………………
Google shows; woman with an F… Bush cheney, and a student with a Bush= “International Terrorist,”
If anyone wears a shirt that the secret service deems a threat, they should and will be checked out.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Just because you can say something in public, doesn’t mean you should. I think with freedom of speech comes a level of responsibility to not be an idiot.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
He got paid and paid quite well. If i wore an off the wall t-shirt i,ll end up in jail. I have buzzard luck.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I wonder what every happend to the young lady who was pulled off a plane for a short skirt and tank top?
January 6th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
I think with freedom of speech comes a level of responsibility to not be an idiot.
Posted by blissfulconservative
—————————————————–
With freedom of speech there is also a level of responsibility to put up with the person who is being an idiot. Someone wearing that shirt would put any doubt of them being a terrorist to rest for me. I would think that someone trying to sneek a bomb onto a plane would at least try to not bring any extra attention to themselves. Would kind of be like a high school student trying to sneak into a bar wearing there lettermans jacket.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
I imagine I would be told to remove my T-Shirt, a red t-shirt with a Coca-Cola logo with the words “Coca-Cola” written in Arabic.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
They don’t just sneak bombs onto planes. They USED them as bombs.
Terrorists don’t “look” or “act” a certain way necessarily.
Would you have reported the family alan blogged about several days ago, or assumed their comments were harmless??
January 6th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Placefield – you took the words out of my mouth! Terrorists don’t wear a tattoo indicating “I’m gonna blow up the plane!”.
Separate Man – I actually think this guy is smarter than you give him credit; he is $240K richer than he was before he put on the shirt.
I’m all for keeping us safe and I appreciate their efforts but this looks like utter paranoia and in that regard the terrorists have won.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Good point Placefield. Paranoia cost ‘em 240K. Good for the dude. I’m effin glad he got his cash.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I don’t know about the family that Alan reported on the other day. There are just to many inconsistencies between what the family says they said and what was claimed to be heard. I do not know where the truth actually is. If I did hear suspicious conversation, yes I would report it. I would also hope that the airlines would act responsibly by taking the safety of the passengers as the first priority but also keeping in mind that I might just be a paranoid wack job.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
“Common sense is not finding mistyped words, its not wearing a “Arabic” shirt on an “Airplane” after “911″ saying how they will not be silient.”
Common sense is not being a conservative after conservative ideology has helped to implode the economy and leave this nation in a endless and fruitless war. Common sense is not voting for a flip-flopper and a big dumb Alaskan. Voting Republican at all these days shows a complete plack of common sense.
Glad to hear your on my side with grammar perfection, who reallly cares? Can everyone underswtand what I am typing even when I miss words and misspell? Then just deal, I don’t have to edit these comments for content AND language!
The guy with the shirt got too large a settlement but he is in the right. If I wore a shirt that said ‘conservatives have failed you’ to a young GOP member rally you would drop a brick, Seperate Man. So shove your racism back in your stupid face.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
They removed a young lady for wearing a mini skirt in Richmond,KY. for wearing it to the mall in that city. They said it was to short. She brought the mini skirt from the mall she was asked to leave from.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
“Would you have reported the family alan blogged about several days ago, or assumed their comments were harmless? Posted by blissfulconservative”
I would have. But then again I’m not a racist and fearful of everyone not caucasian. Creating evil-doers out of an American family just because they arn’t speaking the way you want them to on a plane, how about I order you some jack-boots so you can step on their backs while your at it. I’ve known those who wear traditional Muslim grab and people in this country FREAK OUT when he walks around like that. Why exactly? It’s a white robe and little cap (sorry I don’t know that proper names.) Muslim and Arabic cultures poses NO THREAT to America. I feel no need to prove this, the extreme racism found in America is proof enough.
Conservatives on the radio & TV have contrubuted to an air of fear and ignorance surrounding Arab Americans and quite frankly I’m sick of it. If you or anyone is so concerned about catching terrorists then learn some Arabic or file for a position with the State Dept. These people were nothing more than a family musing to each other where to sit on the plane. Not some long sermon about ‘American-infidels’ or the ‘crusaders’ or whatever. Chose your enemies better or I’ll be pulling you off a dead innocent man with young children waiting at home while a murderer laughs at you in the distance and kills again.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
$240,000 seems a little excessive for what happened. Trial lawyers run amok. That is one reason that trial lawyers are the most hated people in this country, right above Congress.
January 6th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
The phrase “We will not be silent,” is apparently borrowed from one of several leaflets distributed by the White Rose dissident group, which opposed the Nazi regime of Hitler. The members of White Rose were rounded up by the Gestapo in 1943 and executed by beheading.
“We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience.”
January 6th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
From a free speech perspective, the guy can wear the shirt. But did he want to wear that particular shirt?
IMO, it was just like your example ERIC. It was worn just to cause a scene and to stir the pot. To get some attention. To cause a comotion. While nothing is illegal about that, it certainly wasn’t very wise. Or mature. It is very much the same thing as saying “nanny, nanny, boo, boo. Look what I can do!!” Doing it just because you can, but not for any other significant reason.
As far as the award…just rewarding poor behavior on the wearer’s part.
GO CARDS!!—In response to the skirt in the Ky mall…the fact a store in the mall sold the skirt doesn’t really matter. Here is why. If the store sold a skirt designed to be knee-length on a 5′2″ lady, and a 6′2″ lady buys and wears the skirt, the skirt would be much shorter, possibly too short, for the 6′2″ lady.
I think I get the overall point….Why does the mall care what someone wears? If that is the case, why are stores allowed to require that patrons wear clothes at all?
There has to be some sort of standard of decency. I don’t advocate the state determining that, but I certainly advocate a business, regardless of what type of business it is, can determine that for itself.
January 6th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
“it was just like your example ERIC. It was worn just to cause a scene and to stir the pot. To get some attention. To cause a comotion. While nothing is illegal about that, it certainly wasn’t very wise. Or mature. It is very much the same thing as saying “nanny, nanny, boo, boo. Look what I can do!!” Doing it just because you can, but not for any other significant reason.”
Well, that’s how you draw attention to an issue. Welcome to politics in the modern age. Talking on comment boards earns us nothing but doing things like my example or the incident this thread is about is the only way to move an issue in the ‘mass media.’
Call in Gay – remember that. Just an example.
As long you do nothing illegal than you acting inside the bounds of civil protest and justified speech. I do not condone some things done by certain extreme protest groups but I would fight like crazy to defend their right to do it. This is much the same. I wouldn’t do such things but if someone feels it necessary then I’ll back them up, as long as we are talking non-violence.
I am reminded of a Buddhist who set himself on fire in NY Times Square. Perhaps I’ll do the same, we are all eternal beings anyway.
January 6th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
If it was me,i would have been arrested and laugh at.
January 6th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
ERIC—I don’t disagree with the fact he had the right to wear the shirt. That is protected speech.
I just wonder what he was trying to speak about? What was his reason for wearing it?
Was it to try to point out some perceived racism or bias? To point out profiling? Or was it just to stir everbody up because he knew it would stir everbody up?
From a purely legal perspective, I guess it doesn’t matter. But personally, while I too fully support his right to wear the shirt, I could respect it more if he had some worthwhile reason other than just causing trouble.
January 6th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
TRA:
You’re too nice.
The guy is a selfish jerk. Bliss had it right in her post.
Yeah… he’s within his legal rights… la, la, la. I get it. Doesn’t mean he’s not a jerk.
You don’t screw around with air travel in 2008. Just take off your shoes, walk through the scanner, board, sit down, shut up and enjoy the flight. After you leave the airport you can have a parade but just like the guy that couldn’t assimilate for a couple hours in the other story, it’s being a jerk to everyone else that wants a peaceful flight.
Again… within his rights… but a selfish jerk.
January 6th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
I forgot. It’s 2009.
January 6th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
PFKAM, where’s your evidence that a terroriest would wear a shirt announcing it anyway?
I’m surprised (again) at the conservative streak running just under your liberal skin! ;-)
You know, and I know, that Muslims in America are going through a tough time right now, and not of their own doing. Sideways suspicious glances, evesdropping teenagers, and now this embarrassing episode.
There was violence perpetrated during the civil rights movement as well, and during Apartheid, – would you call a young south African black man a ’selfish jerk’ for wearing a “Free Mandela” shirt?
And BILS is right, you don’t know what terrorists look like. In the UK for 40 years they were white Roman Catholics…but I don’t see anyone prying those stupid “Jesus fish” off their cars, do you?
“”But sure, my grammar sucks…”"
Mine don’t, she’s done gone out to t’kitchen to make some cookies…
January 6th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
$240k! Damn I oughtta try that. Where can you get a tee-shirt like that?
January 6th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Where’s the evidence that a terrorist WOULDN”T wear a shirt announcing it?
I personally am tired of hearing that you are only pulled aside if you look a certain way, etc. There are rules in an airport, rules on an airplane, and you may not like them but they are necessary. if you don’t want to play nice and fly then stay home
You can’t board a plane when you are intoxicated, you can’t say certain things in an airport OR on a plane. I don’t care if it is taken out of context, if you aren’t sure keep your mouth shut. I would be very uncomfortable if I heard anyone talking about a “safe” place to sit on a plane. You have your seat number, get on sit down and enjoy the flight.
January 6th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
How many suicide bombers in the history of suicide bombers are of ARAB decent? 99.8% of them? Thank God law enforcement profiles these barbarians. What moron would wear a shirt with Arabic on it while taking a flight. Wait I know, a suicide bomber reject that is looking for attention. Well he got attention. I am sure Mr. Colmes feels otherwise. Keep sympathizing with barbarians Alan, it obviously works for your radio show.
January 6th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
I asked myself,”Now why would he where that T-Shirt?” Well lets think. Where are the links? First we have a airplane, recently I believe, crash in, where was it?, Colorado. Then we have a Muslim family concerned about the safest place to have their children. I being pearly white would be considering the same thing. So, we have these people on the plane and other passengers draw these inaccurate conclusion,( about the Muslim family voicing safety concerns), based on fear and limited thinking. They get hauled off and are under suspect of being something so horrible as a possible terrorist. The Muslim family failed to realize, since 9/11, they need to walk on egg shells, not speak because someone might over react. The fellow wearing the shirt is actually saying a lot but it’s not a nenner nenner response!Nor is it a threat in my opinionBut it certainly spoke volumes!
January 6th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
“” I would be very uncomfortable if I heard anyone talking about a “safe” place to sit on a plane.”"
Wow. You are easily made uncomfortable.
And you’re “sick and tired” of hearing about the reality of profiling (?!)
But just for the record, according to an exhaustive study by Popular Mechanics of all crashes involving casualties from 1971 onwards -
“”Passengers near the tail of a plane are about 40 percent more likely to survive a crash than those in the first few rows up front. “”
Shhhh
January 6th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Can’t board a plane if your intoxicated? I sure have before. Talk about the safest place to sit on a plane during bording? Done that before as well. Have the advantage of being a average looking adult male? Absolutly. Is it fair? Not realy. Timothy McVee anybody? Should I be afraid of every clean cut white guy driving a rented moving truck?
January 6th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
“”How many suicide bombers in the history of suicide bombers are of ARAB decent?”‘
Not sure exactly, but I know the first recorded one was in 1947, a jewish woman who killed 12.
I know there have been many from East Asia and Indonesia as well, and I believe most kamikaze pilots were not, erm, ‘Arabs’.
In the UK, most terrorist bombers for the past 40 years have been white Roman Catholics, or white Protestant Loyalists. They’ve both killed hundreds.
Although they didn’t kill themselves as well…is that somehow better?
Good post Placefield, btw, me too!
January 6th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Thank you Eric! Quite frankly I’am sick of it too, this obsessive fear of individuals of a certain look or a certain nationality. All of this nonsense was stated by fear mongering neocons. The stereotyping of that certain look or that certain nationality is distressing whether it is an Arab or any other nationality. It is obsessive, unnatural, and racist.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Don’t have any. Not my point. It’s inflammatory as evidenced by what happened… and THAT was my point. Thought I was pretty clear about that.
I suppose I don’t know what I am, Frosty… never much mattered to me. I call myself liberal because that’s what the people that know me call me. But if you think I’m conservative, that’s fine. I’ve never been a real good team player.
Pro Choice on abortion… Anti Religion… Pro Gay Marriage… Anti Bail Out… Anti Union… Pro Socialized Medicine… Super Pro Environment… Anti Gun… Pro legalization of drugs… Pro paying a little more in taxes so the less fortunate can get by. That doesn’t leave many friends left, does it? LOL.
Pro common courtesy… like when you’re on an airplane… doing what you can to make life a little easier or a little less anxious for the other passengers and the personnel that have to make tough judgement calls… especially if it’s practically effortless on my part.
I know muslims are having a tough time right now. That’s why I’ll never understand why a muslim would make it even tougher for himself. What a big sacrifice that would have been for the kid to wear a different shirt for a couple hours.
You know… I don’t believe in prayer. I think it’s silly. But when I go to my mother’s house for dinner and she wants to say grace, I join in. Not because I’m a spineless fraud. Because it just seems like a nice and respectful thing to do.
How ’bout you, Frosty?
Sincerely,
Blissful Mark
January 6th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
lol
Can’t seem to post a detailed reply Mark, although short stupid quips seem to go through OK. The lunatics must have taken over the asylum at Alan.com
Take my wife…. please!
January 7th, 2009 at 1:07 am
try your frito bandito alias. maybe they like him better.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:07 am
it’s my only chance.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:09 am
“”I know muslims are having a tough time right now. That’s why I’ll never understand why a muslim would make it even tougher for himself.”"
Interesting question, why indeed?
I suppose, if it were me, I would feel that, Hey, I’m not a terrorist, I’m an American (or Arab, whatever) and I’m not going to hang my head in shame, and pretend I’m not, because the action of some extremists.
It reminds me of the movement in the ’70’s when African Americans re-took their status and origins. We saw the appearance of African names, we saw heads held high, and yeah, we saw “black is beautiful” t-shirts….I know that’s a dated example, but at the time I bet it felt good to say Black Power! Remember the story of the two black medalists at the Mexican Olympics who raised their fists in solidarity with oppressed Mexicans, creating a real maelstrom of controversy at the time?
I can’t remember if they lost their medals, or were banned from future games, or what…but I do remember an interview with one a few years back, now an old man, and I had chills…
If an Arab-looking person can’t even hold his head up and wear a ’solidarity’, or a ‘pride’ shirt in America then the terrorists HAVE won, haven’t they?
Look at everybody here, comparing a “We won’t be silenced” slogan (an old slogan against the Nazis actually) to some drunk joking about bombs!
You say he should have worn a different shirt. Yeah, well maybe so. I wouldn’t have. I feel like ordering one, in fact, size XXL!
I think in America things are getting out of control, the paranoia and xenophobia is bubbling under the surface…and why? Certain media. The right-wing poisonous media. Hannity. Limbaugh. O’Reilly. And the internet is even worse.
I’ll tell you something that breaks my heart. I’ve been working as a long-haul truck driver the last 2 years (to pay off bills that mounted when I was teaching, lol!) …
…The racist garbage that I hear on the CB is absolutely sickening when I’m in the US. In Canada, a bit too, not as much.
Anyway I was crossing the Rockies last winter and stopped to help a rig that was trying to chain up (and blocking my way). They hadn’t answered the CB. I got out to lend a hand, and there was 2 (to my ignorant eyes) Arab-looking team drivers struggling to chain up. I helped out (I’m from BC!) and we agreed to meet at the next stop for a coffee.
Anyway, later I asked them why they didn’t monitor channel 19 or 1. They said that they were often threatened by other drivers because of their Indian accent.
That’s right, Indian.
In fact, they were religious Sihks that had been forced to abandon their religious headware and shave their hair and beards, because of the hostility they encountered daily. They said many other Sihks have had to do the same thing.
Sihks, for Pete’s sake. They are no more ‘Arab’ than you or I, although that’s not really the point…
Unbelievable, and it breaks my heart.
Peace out, my center-left pot-smoking humanist, and yet strangely anti-union, pal…
John
January 7th, 2009 at 1:09 am
Success!
I replaced Sh**storm, with maelstrom!
January 7th, 2009 at 1:11 am
<blockquote.You say he should have worn a different shirt. Yeah, well maybe so. I wouldn’t have. I feel like ordering one, in fact, size XXL!
Now I believe that!
Thanks for recounting that story. It’s a good one.
nite,
Mark
January 7th, 2009 at 1:17 am
Great points Badmfrosty! I can’t listen to the CB here either, unless absolutely necessary! I’m sure you know why. It’s a comforting thought someone with your values is out here with us. Just stopped again out here in PA. Getting nasty on the roads. I’m so sick of it, already. Crawled through Indianapolis Tues. morning, as it was raining ice, during rush hour. I do pray daily and it’s, “Please God, don’t let me hurt anyone!” Started thinking this morning, “Maybe with all this rain, spring will come early.” 1972 or 73 and 1981, I believe it was, we had 70 degree weather by Febuary, in Minnesota, of all things. I think were due, or we should be. Enjoy all the comments so much. So grateful for this site and Alan’s radio show. Be safe out there Bad! Deb
January 7th, 2009 at 3:20 am
People with body art are labeled, people with shaved heads and tatoos are profiled, white folks in predominantly black neighborhoods are profiled, latinos riding in the backs of trucks in the summer are profiled, white americans coming back from countries where canabas is legal are profiled at customs, so why would anyone be surprised that someone with a shirt that says we won’t be silenced written in arabic boarding a motorized mechanism that was used to carry out the most horrendous terrorist attack in recent years on American soil.
You don’t have to look arabic to be stopped in an airport, and yes if you are intoxicated your admission to fly can be denied.
January 7th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Blissful,
In reality I do not belive that him being asked to remove his shirt was that big of a deal. Not worth $240,000 for sure. I do belive that it was wrong but a few flight vouchers and an appoligy would have sufficed. It does point to a much bigger issue though. Profiling is a tough issue. Sometimes someone or something is just out of place and may warrant a closer look. But there is a fine line between a closer look and harrasment. It is also a tough call to figure out just how much danger we are willing to expose ourselves to in the name of our freedoms. On an intelectual level I belive our freedoms are worth a tremendous amount of risk but luckly I have never realy had that tested yet.
January 7th, 2009 at 10:07 am
I don’t think it was a bid deal either. And I don’t think it was worth that much money
January 7th, 2009 at 10:35 am
ERIC, How come everything with you is a race issue?
You’re ignorant rants drive me up the wall. Let’s just blame the world-wide paranoia of Muslims on the US conservatives? Here’s an idea…how about we blame the paranoia on the Muslim extremists who use their bodies to kill thousands of people every year? How ’bout that?
And once again, I’m having to address the fact you libs can’t get past the idea of the amount of money being spent or human lives lost in the war on terror to acknowledge that you’re safer now than you were in ‘01…evidenced by the fact there hasn’t been another single terrorist attack on US soil since. Get your head out of the liberal media spin on the negative aspects of reconstruction of a war torn country and focus on the schools being built, infrastructure being built (thanks to the canucks mostly), political milestones being met, etc. I promise it’ll make you a less angry person…
Also…
Here’s a quick government 101 lesson for you, since I have a “plack” of common sense: NOTHING happens on the hill without approval from both the House and Senate…and since the repubs have NOT had the supermajority to pass ANY bill by themselves, that means they had to have Demo support/votes to do ANYTHING. It’s called “checks and balances”. Even YOU can have the intellectual honesty to admit that tidbit of truth. By the way…how’s your demo controlled congress fairing in the approval polls? out of the teens yet?
January 7th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Jared (I),
Do “you cons” REALLY think that if anyone was going to do anything they would draw such attention to themselves?
If anything, they would use blonde haired, blue eyed Chechnyans.
Passengers would be a MAJOR factor now.
As for the polls,
As Gallup showed, congressional Democrats are significantly more esteemed than Bush– and significantly more esteemed than their Republican colleagues in Congress. According to the latest Gallup Poll, 67% of Americans disapprove of Bush, while 69% disapprove of Republicans in the House and Senate and only 55% disapprove of Democrats in the House and Senate.
The Republicans controlled everything for six years, and they screwed it up, now, give someone else a chance to screw it up.
January 7th, 2009 at 11:30 am
If they were going to do something, the might just use arab looking people who fit in just like they did last time.
National security and wanting safe airlines shouldn’t have anything to do with “cons” (getting really sick of that term) or dems. It should be every american being diligent and reporting anything suspicous in order to keep everyone safe.
passengers would be a major factor now, but who’s to say it would matter? there really isn’t anything you can do to stop a shoe bomb, etc.
There is no room for hurt feelings when it comes to national security.
January 7th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Jared,
I really do not have any proof that I am any more or less safe then before 9/11. With the exception of the Oklahoma City bombing (domestic terrorist) it had been 8 years between terrorist attacks on US soil. So the last 7 years without an attack does not really prove your point.
January 7th, 2009 at 11:41 am
“cons” (getting really sick of that term)”
I only use it with those who use the term, “libs”.
January 7th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Hah, Oldlefty – I was just thinking how irritated I am w/ terms like ‘libs’ or ‘you libs’. As if we all think alike.
(and I don’t like ‘cons’ or ‘you cons’ any better)
I agree w/ Alan about 70% of the time, I prob agree w/ OldLefty about 70% of the time, and I prob agree w/ Willy 30-40%.
The US has become too divided. We all agree more than we think we do.
January 7th, 2009 at 11:55 am
I agree, I am tired of all of the labeling. I like to belive that I do not neatly fit into a prepackaged way of thinking.
January 7th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Who used the term “you libs”?
January 7th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
It’s pretty common, blissful. In this thread it was used by Jared:
January 7th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
OLD LEFTY,
So you’re saying that even though the Republicans had control of the congress for 6 years, they are solely responsible for “screwing up” our country? Even though I’ve pointed out the necessity of Democratic votes to pass any proposed bills/laws?
Also, I use the term “lib” or “libs” as a shortened version of Liberal. Not as a catch-all for every liberal thinker on the planet. In the case of the war, the more common thought process for the majority of Liberals is as I mentioned in my post above. Are there any other Liberal approaches to the war that I’m missing?
Also, what are the dates for your polling data Old Lefty because this is what I’ve found for 2-3 Jan 2009 from Rasmussen:
“Only 11% of voters give Congress good or excellent ratings, while 86% say the legislature is doing a poor-to-fair job. Though low, the latest numbers are a slight improvement from December, when just nine percent (9%) gave Congress good or excellent ratings.”
Correct me if I’m wrong…but the Dems have control of Congress now, right?
PLACEFIELD
That’s a weird argument…you’re basically saying the absence of an attack is not a measure of safety? Analogy: Walk down the street of your hometown in the middle of the night without being mugged. Is that not a measure of how safe your city is?
As far as how safe you feel, compare the terrorist attacks on US soil in the last 7 years to other countries, and then tell me how safe you feel. Or how about this: would you feel safer in the US than in _________________ (enter foreign country name here)?
January 7th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Jared,
That is not excatly what I was saying. I was just saying that using the number of attacks as a measure, this administration has the same record as the previous one.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Going back to the labeling thing. I think part of the problem is we are taught to look at political affiliation in a two dimensional left verses right approach. In reality for most people who actually put any thought to it, it is really a multi dimensional issue.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
well, said Placefield…I often find myself caught in the middle. It’s a weird place to be.
And I’ll agree that Clinton and GW have the same batting average when it comes to the number of attacks on US soil.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
“”Correct me if I’m wrong…but the Dems have control of Congress now, right?”"
OK, I’ll correct you, because you are a bit off the mark here, cheers. Although you are right in that the approval rating is very low. After the mood swing in the US in 2006, great things were expected…
BUT, and it’s a big butt….Bush uses the SENATE to stop any progress by the CONGRESS. (I can’t believe that a former math and science teacher is now teaching civics to Yanks! Kidding :-)) -
For the past 2 years there has been a slight majority of Democrats, IN THE SENATE (and, I think an independant or 2) but not the 60% necessary to prevent the GOP from ‘filibustering’ to block legislation. If any DID manage to get past, it was VETOED by George aWol Bush. 67% is needed to prevent a veto I think (and you may correct ME if I’M wrong, lol)
Sometimes, with a divided congress (Leiberman being the wildcard) W only needed to threaten to veto to kill a bill he didn’t like, even though it was passed by congress and the senate. Like the war funding bill he vetoed because it had a troop withdrawl plan. Something that, of course, W now decides is a good thing!
A veto, like Dubya did with higher minimun wages (which set ALL wages and so may well have prevented mortgage defualts by the working poor)…
Or the Veto he used to prevent gay-bashing to be a ‘hate-crime’. Apparently born-agains like W think they are doing ‘god’’s work giving those nasty fags a bit ‘o ‘tough love’?
Or, my favorite, as a man who lost his only sister to Freidrich’s Ataxia (I know, I know, we all have sob stories, but I’m not looking for sympathy for me, just compassion for others)…How about aWol’s veto of embyonic stem cell reasearch? That one takes the cake for me, it really does. Here was a chance for the US to take the lead in this amazing new medical discipline that gives hope to millions of citizens of the world now struggling with crippling illnesses and conditions, and this bozo, completely ignoring the advice of doctors, scientists, researcher and even enlightened churches…vetos it because he thinks (cloned) embryonic cells (No little body, no head no nervoussystem….just cells) is a ‘human life’?
What a moron. To fall for this nut-job religious reverend moonie carp that every spêrm is sacred, If that were the case than I just flushed several million human lives down the shower drain this morning!!!
There is no way around it, this turkey has done more damage to this country than we even know. His legacy will be a gift that keeps on giving, I assure you, for years to come…
Stop defending the indefensible…let him go back to Texas and sleep it off…
January 7th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
If the terrorists think we are looking for someone with Arab features, why wouldn’t they use a blonde haired, blue eyed Americans to orchestrate their attacks? People will do anything for money. You’d be surprised how quickly a “real American patriot” will turn into a “commie” if the price is right.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
You really have to be a dimwit to believe that a real Terrorist will advertise his / her intent on a T-Shirt. However, You have to be even more dimwitted to pay off the person $240,000. I think I will have a few t-shirts printed and head to the Airport. Could use a few extra bucks this year.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
BADMOUTH – touche and on point. I’m glad to finally be at a website where i can debate intelligently with differing point of views.
I absolutely agree that some vetoes that have gone through are absolutely mind-boggling. Makes me shake my head sometimes. And the only conservatives that I know who are against stem cell research are, as you said, the ultra fundamentalists who believe that “life” begins even before conception. I’m on your side on this one, although I didn’t appreciate the mental picture of the shower scene… :(
January 7th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
mortgage deafault rates went up when ARMS swung. I don’t care how much money you make. when you have a house payment, sometimes a second mortgage, two car payments, credit cards, utilities, etc. and your home interest rate goes from 5.6 to 7.5 or around that you are going to have problems.
Embryonic stem cells are taken from the epiblast tissue of a blastocyst or earlier stage embryos. That means the embryo is 4-5 days old, and if you believe life begins at conception then YES you would question it.
Adult stem cells, though specific have been successfully used to treat leukemia and other bone/blood cancers via bone marrow transplants. They are also used in vet medicine for ligament and tendon injuries in horses.
The adult stem cell issue is not as controversial nor do you hear as much about it because it does not require the destruction of an embryo. ALSO, which rarely gets mentioned, a lot of times you can use a specimen of adult stem cells from the recipient, thereby creating an autograft and the risk of rejection/infection/etc is MUCH LOWER.
the governmnet is providing more money for adult stem cell research.
January 7th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
BLIS,
Isn’t there also a program whereby scientists can use cells from the umbilical cord or placenta? I think I remember hearing about that somewhere…
January 7th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Absolutely jared. that is one reason why parents bank cord blood now. it could save the child’s life, or a siblings life later down the road.
January 7th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
This story makes me so angry that the things I’d like to do Muslims are not Christian, and not appropriate to talk about on this site. That’s wrong, it’s racial profiling. HOWEVER, I will say that if I were on that I would have beat that sob so badly that he wouldn’t have the stamina to fight with a suit.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:52 am