Defending The Indefensible
That’s what President Bush had to do during his final news conference. Is it just me, or does it seem as though he can’t wait for this all to be over? The long “exit interview” with the press was marked with flashes of anger and indignation.
He particularly became indignant when asked about America’s bruised image overseas.
“I disagree with this assessment that, you know, that people view America in a dim light,” he said.
He did say using the phrase “mission accomplished” was a mistake and that it was disappointing not to find weapons of mass destruction after believing they existed in Iraq. But he defended his response to Katrina and skated through saying he inherited a recession and then is leaving with one, but that things were so good in-between. Whether Bush inherited a recession is a matter of some dispute. According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, which tracks such things, the recession began in March 2001.
The final presidential news conference, unlike the last one on December 14 in Baghdad, was free of shoe-throwing, and the president escaped unscathed. Not so for the country, however.
I believe Gore Vidal predicted in 2000 that Bush2 would be the most hated president in History.
January 12th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Gore Vidal is wrong, and so are both of you. I believe history will be much kinder to President Bush. He has kept us safe, after all. Right or wrong, he has not been wishy-washy.
It’s real easy to criticise that to walk a mile or ten in someone’s shoes.
No, he was not a perfect President.
I believe Carter and Obama will end up being the worst presidents in history. Obama is nothing but a Carter-Clinton re-run. I dread the next 4 years, big time.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Bush did NOT keep us safe from 9/11, anthrax or the DC sniper, and there is no reason to assume there was going to be another attack.
I also dread the next 4 years….Bush has handed off the worst disaster in my fifty years.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Mary,
You forgot to mention Nixon, Hoover? But, of course, you would think Obama is the Muslim Devil and Nixon and Hoover are angels compared to him and Jimmy. Ignorance is bliss.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
So now it’s the president’s job to keep us safe from dudes driving around in a car shooting random folks??
Let’s just blame every crime that occured while he was in office on HIM, and give him NO credit at all that we haven’t been attacked on american soil since 9/11.
That’s reasonable.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
You cannot possibly blame 9/11 on Bush. That is completely unreasonable. Go back just a little further if you wish to hunt for blame. There you will find it.
There is GREAT reason to believe there will be another attack. It has been stated repeatedly by those who wish to kill us. Many, many multiple times.
I never said Obama is a Muslim devil, you did. I simply disagree with the man’s politics. Believe it or not, I hope he is successful. But I still think he and good ole Jimmy will be the worst. That is just my opinion, and I said it as nicely as it can be said.
You people are full of venom. I simply stated an opinion in a civil manner. I think Alan would agree to civil disagreement. Notice I’m not posting in his “hate mail” section. I went there one time and was totally shocked beyond belief at some of the things I saw there. (On both “sides.”)
Obviously I like Alan or I wouldn’t read his site. In fact, I wish him a lot of luck in his new ventures and look forward to seeing his new show on Fox. I listened to his “Red, White and Liberal” on CD while driving back and forth caregiving my Dad until he died. So cut a little slack just because you don’t agree. Did civility die along with journalism in 2008?
Please try to keep more of an open mind. (That applies to me, too.) You don’t have to “hate” if you have differing political opinions.
I agree to disagree with you both.
Best wishes.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
So now it’s the president’s job to keep us safe from dudes driving around in a car shooting random folks??
Posted by blissfulconservative
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It would have been if he was a Democrat.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
8 days is too long as far as I am concerned for the Compassionate Conservative Uniter not a Divider Decider.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Mary,
When you say you “dread the next four years, big time”, that’s as closed a mind as you can have. The President-elect has not even been inaugurated yet and yet you have already decided that he, along with Jimmy Carter, will be regarded as the “worst presidents in history.” How does that portray your hopefulness towards success for our President-elect? W. left us a mess. No 911 wasn’t his fault, but going to Iraq was and the mistakes he made there have cost the lives of 4,000+ American troops. We’ll just have to see how nice history treats the President when his approval ratings, with all due respect, are the lowest in history, much lower than Jimmy Carter’s.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
No Old, it wouldn’t. That is the job of the police dept, not the president. As far as the anthrax attacks go, how does the president stop citizens from mailing items???
You went too far with that post. It demonstrated your blatant partisanship with regard to President Bush.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
“give him NO credit at all that we haven’t been attacked on american soil since 9/11.”
And prior to that we haven’t been attacked on American soil since 1993. What’s your point?
January 12th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
You know darn well what my point is. If you want to blame him for everything that has gone wrong, then give him credit for what has been done right.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Alan, the recession may have “officially” started after Bush took office, but there is no doubt that the economy was starting to tank in the waning days of the Clinton administration. Perhaps you can attribute that to people not having confidence in Bush or Gore, etc., but it WAS in decline. I specifically remember thinking, “If Bush wins, libs will pin the bad economy on him.”
To be honest, though, I find it hard to credit a president with a good economy or blame him for a bad one. It’s multifaceted.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Either way flapp, 6 months from now it becomes obama’s recession, obama’s war, obama’s problem with the auto companies, obama dealing with rising gas prices, etc. etc. etc.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
But I find it silly and ignorant that anyone blames or gives credit to a president for the economy, when the president has NO control over it whatsoever.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
< “You cannot possibly blame 9/11 on Bush.”
………………………
Of course I can!
They were only interested in invading Iraq, and missile shields.
Richard Clark said,
“The most telling thing for me about the attitude of these people was on the decision that had been pending for a long time to resume Predator [remote-controlled drone] flights over Afghanistan, and to now do what we couldn’t have done in the Clinton administration because the technology wasn’t ready: put a weapon on the Predator and use it as not only a hunter but a killer.
We had seen bin Laden when we had it in the Clinton administration, as just a hunter. We had seen him. So we thought, Man, if we could get this with a hunter-killer, we could see him again and kill him. So finally we have a principals meeting and the C.I.A. says it’s not our job to fly the Predator armed. And D.O.D. says it’s not our job to fly an unarmed aircraft.
“
But as the right tells us, he must be lying.
Paul P. O’Neill, who left the FBI and died in the WTC said,
“They completely ignored the warnings, and had no interest in following Clinton’s plan to fight al Qaeda OR come up with their own plan”.
But, he must be lying.
Paul O’Neill, the treasury sec said, all they cared about from the first day was Iraq’s oil fields.
I guess EVERYONE was lying except the Bush administration.
al Qaeda stating the wish to kill us is NOT the same as doing it. Their were 8 years between attacks on our soil.
The point of terror is to make you afraid of another attack . The Bush people spread the terror quite nicely:
They just followed Hermann Goering’s advice:
“ Naturally, the common people don’t want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship…Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.”
January 12th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
No Old, it wouldn’t. That is the job of the police dept, not the president. As far as the anthrax attacks go, how does the president stop citizens from mailing items???
You went too far with that post. It demonstrated your blatant partisanship with regard to President Bush.
Posted by blissfulconservative
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If you would SERIOUSLY tell me you would NOT have blamed a Democratic president, then I would seriously not believe you.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
OLD…I think you got in a bit over head with that “DC Sniper, and Anthrax” statement. Care to clarify?
January 12th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
OLD, and how would anyone with such an open mind as you possibly blame such low-level criminal acts on the POTUS?
January 12th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
OLD, two words for you with regard to 9/11 – George Tenet
January 12th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Old
I don’t care if you believe me or not. You went too far with that post. Blaming a president for the anthrax attacks and the DC sniper? Come on, you are smarter than that.
I am non-partisan enough to know where to draw the line. The police did their job. Are we going to blame the incoming president for street crimes too????
If we follow YOUR logic, bill clinton was to blame for the Ted kazinsky fiasco. Ready to blame him for that??
it isn’t logical.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
OLD…I think you got in a bit over head with that “DC Sniper, and Anthrax” statement. Care to clarify?
OLD, and how would anyone with such an open mind as you possibly blame such low-level criminal acts on the POTUS?
Posted by Jared (I) – Texas
January 12th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
………………………………………….
Didn’t REALLY say it, or mean to say it only that the right would have blamed a Democrat.
Remember, they were all saying it was terrorist related.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
No you didn’t. You said Bush didn’t keep us safe from those events.
I have NEVER heard ANY republican blame clinton for kazinsky. EVER. I guess the school shootings that occured under clinton’s watch were his fault too?
Give me a break.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Something being terrorist related is always the initial knee jerk reaction (Tim McVeigh).
I think you’re off base assuming the righties would blame a Dem president, but as there is no proof the right wing would blame a Dem president, there is no proof the right wing wouldn’t either. I’d hope the right would be as apolitical on this as the majority of lefties were.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
“”I believe history will be much kinder to President Bush.”"
That, Mary, will depend on what ‘history’ books you read. If written by an actual historian – not kind, at all.
“”(Getting the common people to support way) is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.”” -Goering
“”We’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here”" – Joe the Plumber
January 12th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
OLD, two words for you with regard to 9/11 – George Tenet
Posted by Jared (I) – Texas
…………………………………
So why did Bush give him the medal of freedom,? then said he was set up by the neocons.
August 6, 2001 While vacationing at his ranch, in Crawford, Texas, Bush is given a Presidential Daily Briefing memorandum whose headline warns that the al-Qaeda terrorist leader, Osama bin Laden, is “determined to strike in U.S.” After being briefed on the document by a C.I.A. analyst, Bush responds, “All right, you’ve covered your ass now.”
January 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Sorry, Oldlefty, but you’re in it too deep. So all the beheadings and other torture killings of innocent civilians overseas is also Bush’s fault? I’m sure it is, and not the fault of the same people who still want to kill us.
Sure it has been 8 years. They sit back and wait, that is their MO and always has been.
Clinton could EASILY have gotten OBL but didn’t do it. He was too busy playing with his “cigar” for most of his presidency. We didn’t even have a president for several years while he was in “office.”
But, I appreciate the reply, and do thank you. Take care. I’ve really gotta get busy now!! : – )
Vegas Lib, I base my opinion on the judgement of Mr. Obama’s decisions thus far, going back 20+ years and in his time in the Senate, the things he believes in, what he stands for, the core beliefs he holds, the people he was hanging out with, etc., etc.
That is why I hold little hope for his Presidency. Now with all the Clinton people in his cabinet, it is like he cannot make decisions on his own.
I know we’ll never agree, but wanted to at least answer.
Have a nice day.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
OLD, You don’t actually believe the right would do that, do you?
January 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
OLD,
It wasn’t GW’s admin that “set him up”, but there’s no arguing the intel coming from the CIA wasn’t accurate.
As I’ve mentioned many times in the past, this briefing on Osama was probably (I’m assuming here, as I’ve not been a part of any daily intel briefing for the Pres) one of a thousand that he had to sift through.
What determines if a threat is credible or not? Who’s to say? Certainly not me, and certainly not you. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 and it’s easy, now, to see where GW’s administration dropped the ball on this one…but at the time would it have been so easy to identify? I don’t think anyone can say it was.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
BADMr.Frosty:
I guess we’ll see when the books are written, won’t we?
Once again, agree to disagree!
January 12th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Oops, I goobered your name. Didn’t mean to!
January 12th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Mary,
I’m sure we can agree on some things. Just give the guy the benefit of the doubt. We’ll just have to see how it goes. No one can predict the future. It’s doubtful to me that he’ll make as many mistakes as Bush did, though. Have a great day!
January 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
DIEGO,
You were doing great up until the “doubtful he’ll make as many mistakes as Bush did” part.
Every president, from George Washington to George Bush has made mistakes…although, some perceptually worse than others. However, there’s at least one definite thing we can give Bush credit for…no cigar games in the oval office!
January 12th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
“”But I find it silly and ignorant that anyone blames or gives credit to a president for the economy, when the president has NO control over it whatsoever.”"
OK. So the right-wing nuts can stop blaming Carter for inflation, right? And unless you want to b;lame him the the helicopter that crashed when trying to rescue the Iranian hostages, WHAT exactly makes him such a bad president?
He was faced with a hostile and, (although democratic) uncooperatice congress, I’ll give you that, and he had neither the chrarisma, nor Bush’s skills at lying to overcome this…
Carter was behind the (mostly) successful deregulation of the airline and trucking indusrty, remember? Cheap flights for all! Competition! You cons should love that!
And his financial chiefs stopped the runaway inflation, setting the base for the relative prosperity of the ’80’s, ?que problemo?
I know conservatives hate that he tried to bring peace to the middle east, and promoted alternative energy policies that would have made the US the world leader, instead of wiping up the rear likes its doing…
He even was ahead of the curve by installing solar panels on the White House roof, only to have them taken down by Reagan and replaced with 50 cals and a phalanx…
So Mary, you are welcome to come hear and make revisionist history statements, and even prophesies about Obama, lol
But remember, all of America gave George aWol Bush a chance at one point…he had a 90% approval rating!
So let’s see you try a little harder to start out on the right footing with your new president, and in a year or 2, if proven right, you can come back and thumb your nose and dance you happy dance….you can always run Carl Rove/Sean Hannity in ‘12!
January 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
“”But I find it silly and ignorant that anyone blames or gives credit to a president for the economy, when the president has NO control over it whatsoever.”"
OK. So the right-wing nuts can stop blaming Carter for inflation, right? And unless you want to blame him the the helicopter that crashed when trying to rescue the Iranian hostages, WHAT exactly makes him such a bad president?
He was faced with a hostile and, (although democratic) uncooperatice congress, I’ll give you that, and he had neither the chrarisma, nor Bush’s skills at lying to overcome this…
Carter was behind the (mostly) successful deregulation of the airline and trucking indusrty, remember? Cheap flights for all! Competition! You cons should love that!
And his financial chiefs stopped the runaway inflation, setting the base for the relative prosperity of the ’80’s, ?que problemo?
I know conservatives hate that he tried to bring peace to the middle east, and promoted alternative energy policies that would have made the US the world leader, instead of wiping up the rear likes its doing…
He even was ahead of the curve by installing solar panels on the White House roof, only to have them taken down by Reagan and replaced with 50 cals and a phalanx…
So Mary, you are welcome to come hear and make revisionist history statements, and even prophesies about Obama, lol
But remember, all of America gave George aWol Bush a chance at one point…he had a 90% approval rating!
So let’s see you try a little harder to start out on the right footing with your new president, and in a year or 2, if proven right, you can come back and thumb your nose and dance you happy dance….you can always run Carl Rove/Sean Hannity in ‘12!
January 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Mary Caspar,
What are you talking about? Who is in WHAT too deep?
No one said the beheadings and other torture killings of innocent civilians overseas is also Bush’s fault……
but when you arm every wacko and malcontent in the region and teach them to bring down a super power, against the advise of some in the CIA who wondered if they could later turn it on us…..then walk away and leave Afganistan deteriorate like it did, in spite of the warnings by Ahmad Shah Masood, what can you say when their predictions come true?
< “Clinton could EASILY have gotten OBL but didn’t do it. He was too busy playing with his “cigar” for most of his presidency. We didn’t even have a president for several years while he was in “office.”
…………………………………………………..
And the Republicans felt that hounding Clinton for that affair was the MOST important use of their time, in spite of Gingrich’s ,Livingston AND Hyde’s affairs.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
OLD, You don’t actually believe the right would do that, do you?
Posted by Jared (I) – Texas
…………………………………..
Do what??
January 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Jared,
I agree that every president has made mistakes, but I’m still doubtful that the President-elect will make as many as the President. The fact that I’m doubtful doesn’t ensure that Obama will be better than Bush. I only get that doubt from the situation the country has been put in for the last eight years. It just seems to me that taking a different direction, as we now are, is going to be better than the direction we have been headed in for the last eight years.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
“What determines if a threat is credible or not? Who’s to say? Certainly not me, and certainly not you.”
It’s irrelevant. The govt failed to prevent 9/11. Bush failed, the CIA failed, the FBI failed. The entire US govt was one big bucket of fail and no one took responsibility and no one was held accountable.
And then, just to add icing to the cake, we had a “homicidal maniac” working at a government bioweapons lab and it took the FBI 7 years to figure this out AND THEN THE GUY CONVENIENTLY KILLS HIMSELF before he can be brought to trial. It’s a story Alexander Solzhenitsyn could have written about the Soviet KGB.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
LIB ROTTWEILER,
Are you suggesting the Federal Gov intentionally did not go after the anthrax guy? You’re outta your mind, if so.
Agreed the failure of pre-9/11 ran across the board, but I’ll do you one better and add Clinton to the mix.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
DIEGO,
Agree this country needs new motivation, and I sincerely hope you’re right when it comes to Obama. We’ll wait and see.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
OLD,
Do you honestly think the right would have blamed a Dem president for the criminal acts you described? anthrax and DC Snipers?
January 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
OLD, there you go justifying one person’s actions because someone else was doing something similar.
The HUGE difference between the President committing moral turpitude and the other gentlemen you listed was that Clinton was elected leader of the free world. You can’t argue the guy sitting in the big seat has the obligation to be the moral example for the rest of the world, regardless of what his political peers are doing.
NOT saying the other gentlemen were any less wrong…
January 12th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Good ole Dubya has kept you safe?
So the “buck stops here” is a great saying when Bush singlehandedly keeps terror from our doors (He also has kept the elephants out of my fridge…not even footprents in the butter!)…
….but his war-mongering policies can’t take any credit for the bombings in, say, London where 50 were killed? (I was actually up the road in Manchester and I remember the fear and hysteria.)
….no blame for Dubya that his conquering rampage in Iraq has led to an all-time high in al-quaeda membership, including cells overseas?
You don’t think that it is now easier to recruit angry young muslim extremists, yes, even here in NA now that Bush has trampled all over iraq, and as Old Lefty has been trying to tell you, has helped spread fear and paranoia from Long Island to the Catalinas?
Fear and anti-muslim sentiment being spread by fear-mongering (fight ‘em there, so we don’t have to fight ‘em here!)….From Key West to that silly little dangly-bit of the US that hangs down into the Straits of Juan de Fuca down from Vancouver…whaddyacallit?
You’re GD right Bush has blood on his hands, lots of it.
Put that in your history books and let Faux News sponser the commemorative plate…collect all 3!!
January 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
“”Clinton was elected leader of the free world”"
No, he was not.
Cheers,
the free world
January 12th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Jared (I) – Texas,
Not EVERYONE on the right, but lets see, they blamed Somolia and 9/11 on Clinton. They called Clinton a rapist, said he murdered V. Foster, Scaife ran the “Arkansas Project”, which some called the “scam Scaife project…..say something bad about Clinton Scaife will give you a few thousand dollars.
They blamed him for the decline in the military and the current financial crisis.
The right refers to the “Obama recession”, when he hasn’t EVEN taken the oath of office….
Of Course I think the pundits on the right would blame a Democrat for everything.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
“OLD, there you go justifying one person’s actions because someone else was doing something similar”
……………………………………..
Jared, there YOU go, justifing an action based on one’s job?
Frankly, I don’t think ANY of their private lives are our business….it’s between them and their families.
I have a problem when they present themselves as our moral betters.
To me, war and peace, and lying about war, and war profiteering, and torture are much greater moral issues than sex.
January 12th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
When did we appoint ourselves as the leader of the free world? This kind of arrogance may be part of our image problem.
January 12th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
“”This kind of arrogance may be part of our image problem.”"
Lol, what image problem, Place?
I just heard Dubya decide that there IS no image problem, and he’s the decider, he decides who gets to decide, and he has decided…
January 12th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
“Gore Vidal is wrong, and so are both of you. I believe history will be much kinder to President Bush. He has kept us safe, after all. Right or wrong, he has not been wishy-washy. It’s real easy to criticise that to walk a mile or ten in someone’s shoes. No, he was not a perfect President. I believe Carter and Obama will end up being the worst presidents in history. Obama is nothing but a Carter-Clinton re-run. I dread the next 4 years, big time. Posted by Mary Caspar”
Absolutely not!
National budget = complete failure under bush, complete success under Clinton.
How safe were we on September 11th 2001? He didn’t keep anyone safe until we got attacked. In fact his office is partly responsible for not taking visable counter-measures against 9-11. I refuse to thank Bush for keeping me safe because he failed in his first two years to do this and keeping the nation safe starts immediately from sewaring-in not after we get attacked.
Being wrong and being striaght-up, no wishy-washy is still bad. Really bad. Would the holocaust have been any less horrible if Hitler had annouced every single thing they did in the press? No. Being a monster that hides or a monster that proclaims is no different. Bush has been a demon of a President. Failing in every way that matters and degrading our national integrity time and time again.
You surely critize Obama. Have you ever been a black man in America today? Well, walk a mile in his shoes before you say anything at all. See? You can’t walk a mile for anyone so we need to be able to comment regardless of such things. I don’t have all info on Bush but I know what I know and he is bad for America and bad for freedom. Bush will end up being maybe third worst President or better in all history.
First attack on the mainland in 200 years! First war started entirely on false information on recent decades! First time in American history torture is apporoved by the State Dept! First time the Exe Branch takes more power from others!
What world do Bush-lovers live in? He is beyond the worst thing to happen to this country in my lifetime. I would pull him out of the Oval Office myself if I could. He is destroying this country to this day. Obama will have his hands full just trying to repair all the leaks this idiot banged into the bottom of the boat. Obama could go down as the best President ever after the worst ever if all goes well. Wake up from your idiotic deillusion about Bush being good for anyone.
January 12th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
BAD MOUTH and PLACE…I misspoke on “the free world” line…good catch.
January 12th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
OLD, I kind of expected you to do this…take one conversation about the moral misgivings of Clinton, and turn it into a “what’s wrong with Bush” monologue.
And to say what Clinton did in the Oval office is a private matter is beyond ridiculous. What he does in the privacy of his bedroom would be a private matter…what he does in the office to which I elected him is my business. And I didn’t say they presented themselves as our “moral betters”; however, it is EXPECTED they will conduct themselves with the highest of moral standards while in the positions they were in.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Old Lefty, I remember the economy that Ronald Reagan enherited from Jimmy Carter. I remember the Iranian hostage situation that Jimmy Carter screwed up. I remember 21 percent inflation Reagan inherited from Jimmy Carter. I remember the double digit unemployment that Ronald Reagan inherited from Jimmy Carter. I remember the interest rates that were closing in on 20 percent that Reagan inherited from Jimmy Carter.
And Jimmy Carter wasn’t governing after the worst attack on American soil in American history.
Whether anyone here likes it or not, Pres. Bush’s tax cuts, for EVERY AMERICAN TAXPAYER, helped bring the economy back after 9/11. They helped spur the economy that created over 4 million jobs before the bank fiasco. The tax cuts put more money in MY pocket and I am in the middle class segment of the population.
So Lefty, you or I could find ANY exiting administration and find bad things that the next administration will inherit. I will let history judge the Bush Presidency. The good, the bad and the ugly about it.
There, I’m finished Lefty.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
RE: Somalia:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/728352/posts
I’ve already said the outgoing clinton and Bush admins both deserve responsibility for 9/11. Moot point.
As for the military…do you seriously want to debate the abysmal state (equipment, personnel, bases, etc.) Clinton left our military in?
And I’ve not heard many rightwingers claim this is “Obama’s Recession”. It will become his recession on 20 Jan. Is that what you’re talking about?
January 12th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
FROSTY,
So what you’re saying is the muslim extremists have no claim, whatsoever, for the anti-muslim paranoia gripping the world? Only Bush and Co.?
Spin it how you want…and I know you will…Bush is not the only reason for extremist attacks throughout the world. And, yes, he has kept Americans safe over the last eight years.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
ERIC,
IT’s okay…really…take your pills and relax…
January 12th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Alan,
I do not agree with you politically, but, I thought you did a top notch job on Hannity and Colmes. You represented your side well and you will be missed.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
History will judge the Presidency of George Bush. Harry Truman, who is judged by history to have been a rather good President, was just as much dis-like by the public as George Bush seems to be. So, let’s just sit back and allow G.W. to retire in peace and let the chips on his Presidency fall where they may.
Have a wonderful retirement President.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Have a wonderful retirement Mr. President.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Everyone makes the clinton scandal about sex. It wasn’t JUST about sex. He LIED UNDER OATH. i don’t care WHAT he lied about, he LIED UNDER OATH. He was accused of rape. Do you know that the accusations WEREN’t true?? Only he, his God and those women know for sure.
I believe that it is ignorant to blame muslim hatred for this country on George Bush. He had been in office, what, 9 months when 9/11 happened?? If I remember correctly, they had attacked us MANY times before George Bush took office. It took years for our country to recognize al qaeda as a threat to our security.
If you blame 9/11 on bush, then blame the first WTC on clinton, along with the U.S cole, etc.
And whoever said the right is already blaming obama for the recession…I haven’t heard anyone blame him for what we have now, but you better believe if his magical stimulus package doesn’t work this becomes HIS recession 6 months after he takes office (that 6 month thing, not my number, economist’s number).
And you are looking at a one term president if we get attacked or the economy doesn’t pull out of the funk
January 12th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Willy,
Carter did have bad inflation on his watch, but as for the screwing up the hostage crisis… Now a days that botched mission is called “friendly fire”, and no one is supposed to mention it again.
People STILL have problems with the idea that Reagan came in and sold TOW missiles to Iran WHILE arming Sadaam.
As for the Bush economy, it’s amazing the two sides see the opposite. I saw a slow but steady transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich…a treating of the US treasury like it was a private piggy bank for Bush’s donors and cronies.
The privatization of profits and the socializing of risks and loses.
To me, this will always be Bush’s legacy:
The Changing Face of Poverty
Millions of Americans live in poverty, more families are suffering and hunger is seen growing.
December 30, 2004: 1:14 PM EST
By Octavio Blanco, CNN/Money staff writer:
According to the most recent Census Bureau statistics, nearly 36 million Americans lived in poverty in 2003, an increase of 1.3 million from 2002. And since 2000, 4.4 million more people in this country are living in poverty. The Census Bureau defines poverty as an individual earning $9,393 or less and $14,680 or less for a family of three.
And American families are faring worse than they have in years. Last year 7.6 million American families — or 10 percent of all families — lived in poverty, a big jump from 2000.
And,
Poverty increasing in rural America
Publication Date: 28-FEB-03
Publication Title: National Catholic Reporter
Format: Online
Author: Donovan, Gill
And,
Rapid Increase In Severe Poverty In The US Has Serious Implications For Public Health
Main Category: Public Health
Article Date: 31 Aug 2006 – 20:00 PDT
Of course, THESE people don’t get noticed.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Lefty,
We started the “War on Poverty” with the “Great Society” under Pres. Johnson in the mid sixties. Since then we have spent over $5,000,000,000,000 (trillion) on this “war on poverty”. It isn’t working to help the poor, but it is working to help make the taxpayers poorer. Maybe that was the plan they had in mind. Make taxpayers more dependent on Uncle Sam.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
“”And you are looking at a one term president if we get attacked or the economy doesn’t pull out of the funk”"
Well, one can always dream, BILS, can’t one?
Maybe we could have Armageddon, the ‘rapture’ and Sarah Plain in ‘12, all at one time!
January 12th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Old,
It amazes me that you bombard conservatives for pointing out mistakes democrats have made, not by acknowleding democrats have made mistakes, but by excusing them with examples from the other side.
I have never seen you criticize a democrat on this blog. ever.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
It isn’t bils bad, it’s BLISS, and you are looking at a one termer if he doesn’t deliver everything he said he could.
You can bank on it.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
and you are looking at a one termer if he doesn’t deliver everything he said he could.
Has any politician ever delivered everything he said?
It amazes me that you bombard conservatives
Oldlefty wouldn’t bomb anyone, she’s a pacifist (or very close to being one)
January 12th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
“Everyone makes the clinton scandal about sex. It wasn’t JUST about sex. He LIED UNDER OATH. i don’t care WHAT he lied about, he LIED UNDER OATH. He was accused of rape. Do you know that the accusations WEREN’t true?? Only he, his God and those women know for sure.”
What is your obsession with Clinton’s BJ????? Who cares if he lied under oath. All presidents lie under oath, including your god George Bush.
The question is, how many people died because of his BJ?
January 12th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Old,
I have never seen you criticize a democrat on this blog. ever.
Posted by blissfulconservative
…………………………………….
Then you havn’t been paying attention…I’ve often said they were spinless.
Truth is they REALLY hav not been in power long enough to criticize, other than being spinless.
And when have we seen YOU criticize conservatives?
January 12th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Oldlefty wouldn’t bomb anyone, she’s a pacifist (or very close to being one)
Posted by Um Cara
…………………………….
This is true, Um Cara, (or close to it).
January 12th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Oh good Lord. I have, go back and read some posts.
I even took up for clinton (hillary)
And they have been in power. You don’t just have to pick on a president. You have plenty of democrat governors, mayors, senators, congressman, and yeah, we’ve had some dem presidents too.
So saying they haven’t been in power enough is a cop out.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
OLD,
The Dems have been in power long enough to promise the unattainable (”The first 100 Days”??), but only achieved very little – result? The low-Teens approval rating…
January 12th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
TDRO
Funny, I don’t remember bush being questioned by a counselor under oath during impeachment hearings. Must have missed that one.
You are sadly wrong. Every president does NOT lie under oath.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Oops…fixed that, did we?
;-)
Obama has inherited such a mess from Dubya and his cronies that it WILL be a challenge for him to meet the expectations for him.
However, I believe that most intelligent Americans KNOW this, and they will be looking for not just instant improvements, but also positive indications that things are being done.
It’s up to you if you want to have no faith in your president, even before he is sworn in…after all it was a decisive victory, and the country has taken a huge swing to the center-left.
I agree it must be hard to see that wedge issues like same-sex marriages, and anti choice of abortion etc have been allocated, largely, to the confines of history.
But as they say, we shall see, if Obama fails to meet the O’Reilly/Hannity/Bliss standard of performance, we can always elect Hilary in 2012…I agree with you there!
January 12th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
“”You are sadly wrong. Every president does NOT lie under oath.”"
Perhaps not, but every MAN lies about SEX…
January 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
confines of history?? Did you hear about prop 8 in one of the most liberal states in the nation??
Hillary won’t run against the guy she works for. Unless she quits or gets fired way ahead of 2012.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
TDRO, when has President GW Bush been under oath? Just wondering…
January 12th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Oh well, that makes it okay to break the law if every man does it then. I didn’t realize that made it okay.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Every president does NOT lie under oath.
And Presidents who are lawyers should really know better than to lie under oath.
Perhaps not, but every MAN lies about SEX…
But not every powerful man abuses that power to have sex with interns. I’m not all that powerful, but I would never have ‘relations’ with an intern working in my office. Classless.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Classless, perhaps.
Rare for a US president to have an affair while in office? hardly.
Need a list?
Furthermore, UM CARA, for you to say that Clinton was the sole intiator of any and all sexual acts, intern or not, shows a slight lack of understanding of female sexuality. I am getting sick of hearing that it’s always the “man’s” idea, with the women chastily and modestly resisting like some sort of Japanese porno.
Guess what? Women initiate sex just as much as men. With the right man, of course, lol. And women are evolutionarily preogrammed to be attracted to men of status and power.So let’s drop the whole right-wing “rape” myth for once and for all, until you have proof, you are nothing but a slanderer…
January 12th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
OMG, now he is pretending he understands women.
And rape isn’t something to take lightly BAD. EVER
January 12th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
“” So, let’s just sit back and allow G.W. to retire in peace and let the chips on his Presidency fall where they may. “”
I actually agree with Ozark-Mountain-Willy on this one.
Let him go back to sleep it off like it was only so-much cocaine-induced psychosis…
January 12th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
“”And rape isn’t something to take lightly BAD. EVER”"
This is typical of not just YOU, Bils, but MANY americans when they want to demonize their opponent in a debate.
WHEN DID I SAY RAPE SHOULD BE TAKEN LIGHTLY?
How dare you?
Go confess, right now. You have AGAIN broken the 9th commandment. (There WERE 15, but apparently Whats-is-name stumled on the way down the mountain, and dropped the tablet that said “be nice to people”)
January 12th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Rare for a US president to have an affair while in office? hardly
I was criticizing nailing an intern and lying under oath. I don’t think that is setting the bar all that high.
Furthermore, UM CARA, for you to say that Clinton was the sole intiator of any and all sexual acts, intern or not, shows a slight lack of understanding of female sexuality.
Where did I state Clinton was the sole initiator? And I’m pretty sure all dudes have a slight lack of understanding of female sexuality – part of what makes life interesting.
I am getting sick of hearing that it’s always the “man’s” idea, with the women chastily and modestly resisting like some sort of Japanese porno.
When are you ‘always’ hearing that? Do you watch a lot of fifties tv or something? I’m pretty sure no one under the age of 60 thinks that anymore (in the US, don’t know about Canada, maybe you guys are more backwards?)
Guess what? Women initiate sex just as much as men.
Really? Garsh! (blush) Who woulda thunk it?
So let’s drop the whole right-wing “rape” myth for once and for all, until you have proof, you are nothing but a slanderer…
I’m pretty chatty, no need for you to put words in my mouth, pretty much none of what you attribute to me as saying was said by me. Do you have me confused with someone else?
January 12th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Heheeeheheheee!!! This is for Frosty’s last post about me. Although I do not get the Ozark Mountain point.
January 12th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
[...] • W Defends the Indefensible: Alan reviews today’s surreal press conference. [...]
January 12th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
“TDRO, when has President GW Bush been under oath? Just wondering…”
Posted by Jared (I) – Texas
I misspoke. I didn’t have to swear under oath that the U.S. had a legitimate reason to invade a country that did nothing to us.
But, answer my second question: how many people died because of Clinton’s BJ?
I can give you a good estimate how many died in Iraq (to date).
January 12th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Sorry. That should have said “He” instead of “I”
January 12th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
But, answer my second question: how many people died because of Clinton’s BJ?
If I were snarky I would respond with ‘I don’t know, how many people were in that aspirin factory’. But I am NOT snarky.
January 12th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
TDro,
fine…ya got me…no one died because of Clinton’s BJ.
January 12th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Willy,
The War on Poverty:
In the decade following the 1964 introduction of the war on poverty, poverty rates in the U.S. dropped to their lowest level to date: 11.1% . They have remained between 11 and 15.2% ever since. Since 1973 poverty has remained well below the historical U.S. averages in the range of 20-25%.
My figures are new, pointing to an increase in poverty from 2000.
Those people probably aren’t posting though.
Jared,
As for the Democratic Congress:
From Roll Call dated April 18, 2007:
Republican Whip Senator Trent Lott said, “The strategy of being obstructionist can work or fail … so far it’s working for us.”
FACTS ON REPUBLICAN OBSTRUCTIONISM
Senate Republicans have obstructed almost every bill in the Senate – even ones with wide bipartisan support.
So far, in the first half of the first session of the 110th Congress, there have been THIRTEEN cloture votes on motions to proceed – each one wasting days of Senate time. (110th Congress, Roll Call Votes #44, 51, 53, 74, 129, 132, 133, 162, 173, 207, 208, 227, and 228)
In comparison, in the first sessions of the 108th and 109th Congresses combined, there were a total of FOUR cloture votes on motions to proceed.
As Gallup showed last month, congressional Democrats are significantly more esteemed than Bush– and significantly more esteemed than their Republican colleagues in Congress. According to the latest Gallup Poll, 67% of Americans disapprove of Bush, while 69% disapprove of Republicans in the House and Senate and only 55% disapprove of Democrats in the House and Senate.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
TDRO,
I dunno exactly how many folks died under clinton’s watch. I don’t keep a running tally like some of the folks on here. But as someone else said, how many were in the aspiring factory?? And how many of our soldiers died during blackhawk down because we let the UN be in charge, etc. etc and they didn’t get the help they needed, but were left to die?
January 12th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Um CARA (oddly) asks:
“”Where did I state Clinton was the sole initiator?”"
Erm, could it be, Um CARA, when you said:
“”But not every powerful man abuses that power to have sex with interns.”" ?
If you are not applying that the whole thing was Clinton’s idea, with presumably no ‘desire’ on the part of the female… that what, exactly do you mean by ‘abusing that power’
?!
January 12th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Bad frost,
“”But not every powerful man abuses that power to have sex with interns.”” ?
Right, I was stating the other side of what you later stated:
And women are evolutionarily preogrammed to be attracted to men of status and power.
Or maybe you don’t think Clinton had the deep, deep insights into women that you do?
what, exactly do you mean by ‘abusing that power’
I’m saying he took advantage of the fact that he was one of the worlds most powerful men to have sex with an intern. I said it was classless, which I think you agreed with (if I understood your post).
January 12th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
” And how many of our soldiers died during blackhawk down because we let the UN be in charge, etc. etc and they didn’t get the help they needed, but were left to die?”
And how many died in this unnecessary war for Bush’s oil? 4000*, that’s how many.
You keep defending this incompetent administration that has no regard for human life. And you keep rehashing Clinton fiascos which happened over 10 years ago, which proves to me you don’t have an argument.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
“”Or maybe you don’t think Clinton had the deep, deep insights into women that you do?”"
Ok there Um Cara. You have clearly let your self-professed distaste with ole fRosTy lead you to the last resort of using (poor and ineffective) sarcasm.
Not very becoming, mate.
:-)
But I stand by my statement. Women are attracted to powerful men. Lewinsky was an adult, not a child.
There would be NO reason why she would feel obliged to have sex with Clinton. But many reasons why they would BOTH choose to.
If you want to call it abuse or rape or whatever, go for it.
I wonder than, UM CARA, which one Jefferson was?
January 12th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
“Oh well, that makes it okay to break the law if every man does it then. I didn’t realize that made it okay.”
Posted by blissfulconservative
Hey, Cheney agrees with Nixon statement that, “if the president does it, it is not illegal”.
So, by that logic, his lying under oath is not illegal.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Wholy flying shoes Batman ! maybe its common practice for a country to invade/assume WMD then wait 8 years to explain it all ? except how the war would have been fought on american soil had we gone the other way on this subject. I guess we will never know
January 12th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
But I stand by my statement. Women are attracted to powerful men.
I stand by the same statement (as I already mentioned)
Ok there Um Cara. You have clearly let your self-professed distaste with ole fRosTy lead you to the last resort of using (poor and ineffective) sarcasm.
Perhaps, but no more distasteful than you putting words into my mouth, accusing me of slander, and lecturing me on ‘female sexuality’. Go back and read your post and tell me the it wasn’t at least equally cheesy as my sarcasm.
If you want to call it abuse or rape or whatever, go for it.
For the third time now, I called it classless, and you agreed with me. I didn’t call it rape. I didn’t call it abuse.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
People can complain, spew negativity, predict dire consequences, criticize, and attempt to demean the president elect; however, dispite all these anger management issues, the American people have spoken. They have elected the first Afro American president,something I never thought I would see in my life time. I, for one feel extremely proud that so many Americans could see the extremely good qualities in this man, and put race aside.
January 12th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
TDRO -
They’ve been obsessed with Bill Clinton’s BJ forever; don’t you know that’s the reason 9/11 happened and I’m pretty sure that’s the cause of global warming as well.
Honestly, it’s such an obsession to them that I’m starting to think they’re jealous.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
My friend and I are hosting a “Farewell to Bush, Don’t Let the Door Hit You in Your A**” party. Seriously we are. We’re going all out.
Everybody leaves with a goodie bag. The contents include:
1. The charred remains of the Constitution; signed by Cheney himself.
2. The actual WMD found in Iraq; it’s a ziploc bag with a few paper clips, rubber bands and some spit balls.
3. The book “George Bush’s made up words and phrases”. Volume 1.
4. The book “George Bush’s made up words and phrases, because ya know I haven’t made a big enough a** out of myself yet”. Volume 2.
5. Quick reference guide to common torture practices. Actually the original title was “Terrorists quick reference guide to common torture practices”, but I just scratched out the word terrorist and wrote Bush….because I see no reason why a country like the United States of America should have any higher standards than that of a terrorist.
6. The actual pair of size 10 shoes the journalist threw at Bush’s head to thank him for the Iraqi’s “freedom”.
I know there is more I can add, but I’m drawing a blank. Anybody have any ideas?
January 12th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Bushism has ended and america has prevailed.Sounds like the mission accomplished! Hey, Hey! Sarah Palin was rejected.
January 12th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
TDRO, Danielle
So everything Clinton did was OK because no one died? Why did we impeach Nixon? Watergate caused no deaths, but it was wrong. And TDRO, how many died in Bosnia? Why did Clinton send our military there? W.Bush did not start the Gulf War, I was there twice before W. took office. Bush has made some mistakes but he is not the first or last to do so.
January 12th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Worse President EVER… end of argument.
January 13th, 2009 at 1:12 am
OK UM CARA
Although I hardly think I’m ‘lecturing’ anyone on female sexuality to say that they like it too…
January 13th, 2009 at 1:59 am
“Are you suggesting the Federal Gov intentionally did not go after the anthrax guy?”
NO, I’m suggesting the FBI’s incompetence in the case is beyond comprehension, and once again no one was held accountable, and given the Bush regime’s record on crimes against humanity it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the man alleged to be behind the anthrax attack received some direct hands-on government help in killing himself.
January 13th, 2009 at 2:03 am
Bad Mr. Frosty,
But as they say, we shall see, if Obama fails to meet the O’Reilly/Hannity/Bliss standard of performance, we can always elect Hilary in 2012…I agree with you there!
We? You working on your US citizenship? I’m surprised, but your anti-Americanism will be a bit more palatable once you have lived in the US a while, and have more than your current superficial of us.
What is the expected date of your gaining US citizenship?
January 13th, 2009 at 7:40 am
‘…your current superficial understanding of us.’
January 13th, 2009 at 7:41 am
Dennis –
“Bush has made some mistakes”. That’s a bit of an understatement. The Bush / Cheney Adminstration has been one of if not the most dangerous Administrations in America’s political history. It goes far beyond “some mistakes”.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:26 am
I would call bombing the wrong country, killing thousands of innocent civilians and military personnel, having countries that already hate – hate us even more, losing virtually all of our international respect and trust, rewriting the Constitution, condoning practices of torture – a bit more than “some mistakes”.
And that’s an extremely short list; I could go on all day.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Hey, Alan, sorry to say I just NOW discovered your site.
W’s cherry-picking of his achievements is breathtakingly creative.
I went to school with the fella and remember the trouble he got into 4 decades ago “branding” fraternity initiates with a red hot coat hanger, leaving a scar that did not amuse many students and generating a campus controversy that the New York Times wrote up. An omen of things to come? I knew then George was destined for greatness.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:14 am
POSTED BY JOHN O’LEARY
Welcome home, John.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Mornin’ Um:
I think you’ve got Frosty all wrong.
He comes across a little… alright… way arrogant. But the guy’s pulling for the world here and he realizes the U.S. calls a lot of the plays. He’s got a lot of insightful stuff to say that I think you WOULD agree with. Don’t chase him off.
Okay… that’s my Henry Kissinger impersonation for the day.
Mark
January 13th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Danielle, Danielle. The most dangerous administration in American History? Come on Danielle. Please explain yourself. Clinton made some mistakes. Bush one made some mistakes. Reagan made some mistaked. Carter made some mistakes. Ford made some mistakes. Nixon made some mistakes. Johnson made some mistakes. Kennedy made some mistakes. Eisenhower made some mistakes. Truman made some mistakes. FDR made some mistakes. Hoover made some mistakes. Whew. My fingers are tired plus I need to cheat to go back further and in order.
I guess Danielle is the only person who could be Pres. and not make any mistakes.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:37 am
willy:
Danielle is correct. Sure we’ve had presidents that have made mistakes, but how many have made disasters?
January 13th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Willy,
I never said other President’s didn’t make mistakes. All of the President’s you have listed above (plus some) have made mistakes. I don’t see how ANYBODY who is President of the United States will never, ever make a mistake. But you can’t even begin to compare the mistakes of any of the President’s listed above (Dem or Rep) to the mistakes of George W. Bush!
January 13th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
TDRO,
What, specifically, is this disaster you speak of? Economy? Blame it all on the repubs, right? The War? Blame that all on Bush and repubs too? C’mon…there’s enough blame to go around for the both of those…
Or, if you’re OLD LEFTY, blame the war on PNAC’s manifesto, war profiteering, etc. etc. etc.
And if you’re FROSTY, blame it all on the “big C christians”…
January 13th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
It’s not so much who makes mistakes as it is, in the words of longtime Republicans:
Dan Simpson, a retired U.S. ambassador:
“ I believe that he came to office with the intention of transferring as much of America’s wealth as possible into the hands of defense contractors such as Dick Cheney’s Halliburton and the oil companies that were his background and remain his so-called “base.” The result is a U.S. economy on the skids. The jobs situation is very bad, as we know especially well here in Western Pennsylvania.
George W. Bush is the first American president since the Great Depression under whom our economy has slipped backward in creating jobs. The national debt — our debt — fueled by spending for his war and his budget deficit, has reached an inconceivable $7.4 trillion and continues to rise at $1.67 billion per day.
Bush’s “base” is prospering, helped by tax cuts that are targeted to benefit the elite of our society, led by oil companies fat from what we are paying at the pump for gas and what we are about to pay for fuel this winter. “
Or
“This is not a family that has a particularly strong commitment to American democracy. Its sense of how to win elections comes out of a CIA manual, not out of theDeclaration of Independence or the Constitution.”
Kevin Phillips writing about the Bush Family in American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush
January 13th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
OLD LEFTY,
Using someone’s personal opinion as a basis for your argument? I can understand if it were backed by other than his personal qualms about how the last 8 years have gone, but it isn’t. There is absolutely no way you can prove that Bush came into office with the INTENT of transferring wealth to oil companies, contractors, etc. That’s just ludicrous to say.
Not to toot his horn or anything as far as job creation, because he is WAY behind Clinton on this one, but he does have a surplus of 3M…and his budget deficit and the spending in the war are directly tied to one another…you can’t separate the two into two different talking points.
Western PA…you are the racist rednecks, right? ref. Murtha…
I’d like to see Mr. Phillips write a book on the Clinton machine…I wonder how that would go…
January 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
LIB Rottweiler,
Another conspiracist on this blog? You and OLD LEFTY should get together and compare notes.
“Bush’s crimes against humanity”??? HUH? explain, with proof that he committed crimes against humanity.
January 13th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Jared,
The point is I am NOT using “someone’s personal opinion as a basis for my argument.”, only their eloquence.
People have been screaming about this from day one.
They have done EVERYTHING that was predicted by those who were sceptical of them.
My concern has always been the problem of those whose personal fortunes are tied up in the foreign policy that they make, and SUPRISE, SUPRISE!, they ALWAYS make money, whether it is the Carlyle Group, Halliburton or Bechtel.
Quoting the many conservatives who feel that way just means it’s not just the political opposition saying it.
This is what my in laws from India say is what you expect from a third world country.
You said:
“There is absolutely no way you can prove that Bush came into office with the INTENT of transferring wealth to oil companies, contractors, etc.”
True you can’t read their minds, but that is EXACTLY what their critics said they would do, and that is EXACTLY what they did.
January 13th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Danielle,
By your measurement then every government official that voted for bush to use the tactics we have used for national security should be kicked out of government.
Even Dick Morris gave the president credit this morning.
And whoever said folks didn’t die under clinton?? Are you re-writing history now? Aspirin factory, khobar towers, somalia, etc??
Want some interesting facts and figures?? There were 7,500 active military member deaths under bill clinton. Not counting 2007 adn 2008, there have been 8,792 under the current George Bush. There were 6,223 under Feorge H.W Bush, and 17,201 during Reagan.Got this info. from snopes
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/deaths.asp
January 13th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Jared (I),
You can keep calling it conspiracy, but you only have to read their OWN papers to see they did EXACTLY what they said they would do.
January 13th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Here’s some words I think both Libs and Cons can appreciate.
site
January 13th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
OLD LEFTY,
I’m going to use one of your debate tactics:
The Clinton machine has added millions to their personal fortunes through their foreign policy/contacts/investments and continue to make millions…
January 13th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
How much has bill and hill received from overseas donors????? MILLIONS
January 13th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
check out Judicial Watch’s 10 most corrupt politicians of 2008 as posted on MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28449789/
January 13th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
DIEGO,
excellent article…
January 13th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Good site, VegasLib aka Diego,
Jared,
But the Clintons did not use OUR treasury and military and his office as a sitting president to do it.
He did not put donors and business cronies in positions of power in the Balkins.
He did not turn over billions to contractors in conflicts he started with no accountability.
He never had allies say he fixed the intelligence around the policy, in a conflict that his buddies made off with billions, most of it unaccounted for.
He didn’t pack the DOD with people who ALL had a plan which was 180 degrees opposite HIS stated plan, then carry out THIER plan to the letter.
I’m not Clinton’s biggest fan, but there is no comparison.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I’d like to put something out there.
Just a few facts:
~ In 2003, MSNBC canceled Phil Donahue even though it was the HIGHEST rated show on MSNBC because as a memo stated: “It is a difficult public face for NBC in a time of war…. He seems to delight in presenting guests who are anti-war, anti-Bush and skeptical of the administration’s motives.” The report warned that the Donahue show could be “a home for the liberal anti-war agenda at the same time that our competitors are waving the flag at every opportunity.”
~ Richard Mellon Scaife’s American Spectator and Pittsburgh Tribune Review have NEVER made money, while, Fox News lost $90 million a year for its first five years of operation?
(the cost of disseminating propaganda?)
~ We have old time conservatives and libertarians like Kevin Phillips, John Dean, Former Ambassadors, and Joint Chiefs, Pat Buchanan, Ken Adelman,. Bruce Bartlett, Bruce Fein, Jonathan Turley….the list goes on, who have come out against the Bush administration.
~ Look for the old show, Firing Line, where you had debates between William F Buckley and Noam Chomsky. Each waited respectfully while the other made their point, no talking over or shouting or interrupting….to see how much we have lost.
Here’s the question:
I realize that those on the right see MSNBC as “left leaning” and Olbermann as “far left”, but if the MSM was actually center or right leaning, and Fox was “far right”, what makes you think you would know?
The ACTUAL left is concerned with the World Bank, the WTO and the IMF, the trade marking of seeds in poor countries, the privatizing of water, etc. Stories NEVER covered by the corporate MSM.
So my point is, if we do have Corporate “Infotainment”, masquerading as ‘News”,
If years and years, and billions of dollars have been invested in a pro business, pro military industrial , right leaning media complex, (no conspiracy, just the lowest common denominator, and knowing which side the corporate ‘bread is buttered’,
And there is a HUGE industry devoted to telling you that any facts that don’t fit into your world view, are “far left liberal bias”:
What makes you think you know the difference between news and propaganda?
It’s a fair question for either side, I’m asking as a liberal.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Jared,
Yeah. I thought it was. I think those are the type of bipartisan feelings the nation should embrace: that there cannot be a perfect president and that if a president is elected there is a reason why he got elected and he or she should have America’s support.
I just have to quote Ed Rollins: “As we hope for the change which is coming next week, I just want to pause and reflect and say to President Bush, ‘Thank you, for serving your country.’ To our new president: Best of luck and you have our prayers.”
January 13th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
You are saying bush had no accountability?? How many folks voted YAY to going to war with Iraq??? Did THEY have accountability?
You can’t honestly think bill clinton didn’t put his own cronies in positions of power??
come on
January 13th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
OLD LEFTY,
Again with the unexperienced people he sent to the Balkans…if you’re so transfixed by the lack of experience by those put in office, you only have to look to the new President as the antithesis to your argument.
The Clintons may not have conducted business transactions while he was in office, but you can be damned sure he was fostering those business connections while in. Same could be said of Bush as he was never directly involved in handing out contracts to businesses. If you want me to say the company Cheney was the CEO of shouldn’t have gotten any contracts, then I’ll say it. It was absolutely a conflict of interest. but as you like to point out…he with the lowest bid, or the only bid, gets the contract… (no bid contract, blah blah blah…just preempting you here). And I’ve already conceded the failure of oversight leading to lost monies.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
DIEGO
Unfortunately, we have a long way to get to a point of bipartisanship as there will always be blame placed for every misdeed, miscue, etc. It’s the political way.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Jared,
Very true… unfortunately, but I think deep down we all wish we could agree. ( or more like, we all wish everyone would agree with us )
January 13th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Jared, Sometimes there is only one resource capable of producing what you want to buy.
J: If you want me to say the company Cheney was the CEO of shouldn’t have gotten any contracts, then I’ll say it. It was absolutely a conflict of interest. but as you like to point out…he with the lowest bid, or the only bid, gets the contract… (no bid contract, blah blah blah…just preempting you here). And I’ve already conceded the failure of oversight leading to lost monies.
K: If you must leave the work undone because you won’t give it to the company formerly run by an elected official thats an even worse state of affairs than awarding the job in a way that could be criticized for cronyism…
January 13th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Jared,
You are confusing “inexperienced” people with people in the war business who have a HUGE conflict of interest.
blissfulconservative,
I’m talking about accountability with the billions, especially the 9 Bil. Remember the Economist called Iraq “A yard sale”.
As for the yays, I thought that vote was to back up inspectors, with threat of force, not kick the inspectors out and start the bombing!
Like Bob Graham said, Unlike the first George Bush, who had purposefully put off the vote on the Persian Gulf War until after the elections of 1990—we voted in January of 1991—here they put the vote in October of 2002, three weeks before a congressional election. I think there were people who were up for election who didn’t want, within a few days of meeting the voters, to be at such stark opposition with the president.”
Remember the “Liberal Media” was beating those wars drums so hard, the mood for war was festive…. It would taken a lot more courage than most politicans have to vote no, although a few did.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Shall I post my quotes made by democrats who said sadam was a threat and he had WMD’s again for your viewing pleasure?/????
So they are spineless and stupid for voting for something they didn’t understand??
If you want to talk accountability, then you should talk accountability across the board, not just for the party you choose not to be a member of.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I hvae said enough about Bush. Just making a apperance. 7 more days. NANANA NANANA HAYHAY GOOD BYE.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Blissful:
I will be the first to admit the democrats were spineless and stupid for voting for something they didn’t understand. So what? Republicans had control of congress at the time. And ALL the republicans voted in favor of the war.
For you to blame a few stupid democrats who believed Bush’s rhetoric is unfair.
It seems to me you expect the democrats to take responsibility for the war in Iraq. And I’m sure after January 20th, you will waste no time blaming Obama for this unnecessary war.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
TDRO,
I expect everyone who voted for the war in iraq to take resonsibility for it, and for the left to quit blaming one man. We don’t have a monarchy, and he didn’t send the men in arbitrarily.
THAT’s what I want.
What will obama get blamed for?? If conservatives take their cues from far left liberals everything that happens after january 20 will be HIS fault entirely.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
AGAIN!
The accountability is in the money given out in 100 dollar bricks.
If you want to post quotes made by democrats who said sadam was a threat and he had WMD’s knock yourself out.
I already said they were sp;inless, and Bush Exploited the situation….
Matthew Dowd: Karl wasn’t receptive to ideas that would’ve called the country to certain things and brought them to a common purpose and a sense of shared sacrifice. Karl came from a perspective of: you defeat people in politics by calling one side bad and one side good.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Blissful:
This country has been in pretty bad shape for the last 8 years and even if Bush “inherited” (as you would say) the problems from Clinton, he had 8 years to clean it up. He did nothing but make things worse.
If you want to excuse everything Bush & Cheney have done, that’s your perogative. You can also follow them to the gates of hell.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Lefty,
Your post reminds me of something I heard someone say the other day (can’t remember who). Anyways it was that we need to start argueing about who is right and who is wrong and not who is good and who is bad.
January 13th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Diego, that was a great article. Thanks for posting the link. Sure wish more folks could take that attitude. It was very good, and thanks a lot!
January 13th, 2009 at 7:51 pm