RI Senator Whitehouse Will Investigate Bush If Obama Won’t
Sheldon Whitehouse (left), who sits on both the Intelligence and and Judicial Committees, says Congress needs to look at the secret legal opinions drafted for Vice President Cheney.
“I think that there’s a lot that remains to look at, and I appreciate that President Obama doesn’t want to make it his purpose as a new president, with America in real distress in many directions, to go back and look at all this, but I think we in Congress have an independent responsibility, and I fully intend to discharge that responsibility,” Whitehouse said.
Warrantless wiretapping and coercive investigations would be just a couple of items on the agenda. Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois says senators need to focus on the future.
“There’s a big debate going on about holding the previous administration accountable for [its] actions, and I would say for the time being that the Obama team is focused properly on the future,” Durbin said. “Our economy is so weak; we’re in desperate need of jobs. Before we start looking at the pages of history in the Bush administration, we should be looking at the obvious need to create jobs and create a new economic climate in this country.”
John Conyers has a 487-page report out today, “Reigning in the Imperial Presidency“, and says the incoming administration “should finally begin an independent criminal review of activities of the outgoing administration.”
The Whitehouse is right, a rare thing for the Whitehouse.
Different Whitehouse? Oh. That explains it.
Alan, I still think Ben Levitan could make for an interesting guest on the subject of wiretaps.
January 13th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
YAWN. Same old Washington. This is another reason we need term limits on ALL political office holders. It will greatly cut down on corruption.
Besides, there are bigger fish to fry. The economy and a couple wars. We don’t need to waste time and money, of which we have neither.
A side bar–Did you know Congress voted themselves a pay raise again. Arrogant, self serving, two face, Washington politicians.
January 13th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Amen Willy.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
error: Senator Sheldon Whitehouse is a ” D ” not a ” I “
January 13th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Did you know Congress voted themselves a pay raise again.
I don’t know if it is still the case, but it used to be that they automatically got a pay raise unless they voted against it. Saved ‘em the embarrassment of voting for a pay raise. Anyone know if that is still how it works?
Weasels, the rest of America is taking pay cuts or losing their jobs.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Works for me. They broke the law.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
This is the kind of news that will put a smile on the face of dennis kucinch of oh.
http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=93581
January 13th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Willy:
You’re absolutely right. I mean, what did Bush do that was so bad? Started an unnecessary war and sacrificed thousands of lives, illegally spied on American citizens, outed a CIA agent, tortured detainess – you know, piddly stuff.
Now, the minute he gets a blow job – WATCH OUT!!!! We will spend thousands of taxpayers dollars to prosecute such dangerous behavior.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I do believe that it is there job to investigate this. Better use of time then investigating steroid use in baseball. Now as far as voting themselves a pay raise, I know if I had there approval rating with my bosses (We are technically there bosses) I would not be getting a pay raise. Actually I just got a quite good performance review and then the speech, well you know we are not really in a position to be giving raises right now. I mean really, what other profession can you be working for someone who is basically bankrupt, be considered inept at your job, and then decide for yourself that you are going to be getting a pay raise.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
TDRO,
There was no illegal spying. Your beloved democrats along with republicans voted YES to the security stuff you listed, and they voted for the war. Bush didn’t arbitrarily send the troops in on a whim.
While we are at it, let’s talk about obama’s latest fiasco. The guy he tapped to be in charge of the IRS is under investigation for hiring a woman to clean his house whose visa had expired AND he hadn’t paid taxes in 4 years?? He hadn’t paid taxes in 4 years and HE”S going to be in charge of the IRS????
Who is vetting these people?
January 13th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
The more I come to this the more amazed I get with how some peoples minds work.
The war was necessary, the world is a better place without Sadam or his sons in it.
Thousands of lives were lost… on 9/11
There was no illegal spying on American Citizins. Are you hiding something?
Tortured detainess give me a break compare waterboarding to decapitation wonder which one the detainess would pick.
Its not a question about getting a oral stimulant but lying to congress about it
January 13th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
These are the people we are going to sit and talk to???
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/13/iran.stoning/index.html
January 13th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
“The guy he tapped to be in charge of the IRS is under investigation for hiring a woman to clean his house whose visa had expired AND he hadn’t paid taxes in 4 years?? He hadn’t paid taxes in 4 years and HE”S going to be in charge of the IRS????”
WHAT?? He hired an illegal?? He didn’t pay his taxes?? Shocking! Why, that is much worse than starting an unnecessary war and sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives.
No illegal spying? Then why did Georgie admit to ordering it?
“George W. Bush has admitted to ordering the National Security Agency to conduct electronic surveillance of U.S. civilians without seeking warrants from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, duly constituted by Congress in 1978, in violation of Title 50 United States Code, Section 1805″
“Bush didn’t arbitrarily send the troops in on a whim.”
Of course not! He led congress to believe that Iraq was somehow connected to 9/11. And we know that was a fat, juicy lie.
Who vetted Bush and Cheney? They ran roughshod over this country and you excuse his actions with flimsy rhetoric.
And I don’t buy your argument that the democrats are responsible for everything that happened over the last eight years.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
TDRO,
George Bush and his adminstration has not done anything illegal. Crappy job trying to take the spotlight off what is going on, with something you and a lot of far lefties have invented in your minds.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
MK:
Ah yes. I remember how many people were killed because of Clinton’s BJ.
Apparently you never lost anybody who served in Iraq. You seem to think life is expendable – as long as it’s not yours.
By the way, enlighten me. What was Iraq’s role in the WTC attack?
January 13th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
“George Bush and his adminstration has not done anything illegal”
You keep telling youself that. You may start to believe it.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
TDRO,
What have they done specifically?? ANd who aided them??? Their wiretaps, legal, the war, legal. You might not like it or agree with it but it is alllll legal.
Not paying your taxes for 4 years??? ILLEGAL
January 13th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Blissful:
““George W. Bush has admitted to ordering the National Security Agency to conduct electronic surveillance of U.S. civilians without seeking warrants from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, duly constituted by Congress in 1978, in violation of Title 50 United States Code, Section 1805″
Last I heard a warrant was needed to spy on U.S. civilians.
Nice way to divert attention from Bush to democrats. Conservatives are real good at that.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
I will post this again for the last time, (I understand if no one is interested).
I WILL ask the question again though,
I’d like to put something out there.
Just a few facts:
~ In 2003, MSNBC canceled Phil Donahue even though it was the HIGHEST rated show on MSNBC because as a memo stated: “It is a difficult public face for NBC in a time of war…. He seems to delight in presenting guests who are anti-war, anti-Bush and skeptical of the administration’s motives.” The report warned that the Donahue show could be “a home for the liberal anti-war agenda at the same time that our competitors are waving the flag at every opportunity.”
~ Richard Mellon Scaife’s American Spectator and Pittsburgh Tribune Review have NEVER made money, while, Fox News lost $90 million a year for its first five years of operation?
(the cost of disseminating propaganda?)
~ We have old time conservatives and libertarians like Kevin Phillips, John Dean, Former Ambassadors, and Joint Chiefs, Pat Buchanan, Ken Adelman,. Bruce Bartlett, Bruce Fein, Jonathan Turley….the list goes on, who have come out against the Bush administration.
~ Look for the old show, Firing Line, where you had debates between William F Buckley and Noam Chomsky. Each waited respectfully while the other made their point, no talking over or shouting or interrupting neither calling the other anti-American…….to see how much we have lost.
Here’s the question:
I realize that those on the right see MSNBC as “left leaning” and Olbermann as “far left”, but if the MSM was actually center or right leaning, and Fox was “far right”, what makes you think you would know?
The ACTUAL left is concerned with the World Bank, the WTO and the IMF, the trade marking of seeds in poor countries, the privatizing of water, etc. Stories NEVER covered by the corporate MSM.
So my point is, if we do have Corporate “Infotainment”, masquerading as ‘News”…..
If years and years, and billions of dollars have been invested in a pro business, pro military industrial , right leaning media complex, (no conspiracy, just the lowest common denominator, and knowing which side the corporate ‘bread is buttered’,
And there is a HUGE industry devoted to telling you that any facts that don’t fit into your world view, are “far left liberal bias”:
What makes you think you know the difference between news and propaganda?
It’s a fair question for either side, I’m asking as a liberal.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
TDRO, arguing with you about what you deem legal or illegal is pointless. In your mind you have every republican tried and convicted, but you let the dems off scott free. Where did you get your quote by the way??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy
I don’t have to try and divert anything. First richardson now his IRS dude. Like I said, who is vetting these people??
January 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Oh these people that delude themselves that Bush did nothing wrong and didn’t lie about anything! Talk about denial.
I welcome the investigation, it’s been a long time coming. I agree, it shouldn’t be Obama’s focus – the state of this country is a mess. But I do want the Bush Adminstration held responsible for their illegal actions for wiretapping, the CIA agent and possible war crimes. If there is nothing to hide, why the big deal? Let the lynching begin, just like Clinton was lynched for the “BJ”. If we’re going to spend money on an investigation, I’m quite confident more than just a “BJ” will be uncovered.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Once again I”ll ask, are we going to indict the senators who let this happen?????????????????????
January 13th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Better yet, let’s make this investigation RETROACTIVE. Let’s go back and look at the clinton years where he said on Feb. 9, 1995 “the attorney general is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order.” In other words, without a warrant they can kick in your front door.
Better yet, the clinton adminstration made it lawful to use infrared scanning on your home without a court order.
Now where was all the howling back then????
What about jimmy carter?? In 1979 he sent an executive order that said the attorney general could use electronic surveillance without a warrant.
This has always gone on, you just bi### about it now because a republican was in office.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
“Better yet, the clinton adminstration made it lawful to use infrared scanning on your home without a court order.
Now where was all the howling back then????”
………………………………….
Then where was the Republican majority, and why were they only interested in a blue dress?
January 13th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
I have another great idea.
1. Pardon all the people in Gitmo.
2. Close Gitmo on day one and let them allll go free.
3. Get rid of the Patriot Act.
4. Eliminate executive orders that allowed the FBI, CIA and other agencies to share information.
5. Issue orders for the immediate withdrawal of all US forces in Iraq and Afganistan.
6. Issue an Executive Order prohibiting listening in on phone calls or using other types of electronic surveillance.
In other words, put the country back to where Clinton left it, as it was on 9/10/2001.
And NOOOOOOO griping if we are attacked again. NONE.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Old,
I dunno?? Are you excusing that action or once again blaming republicans for something a democrat did???
January 13th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Oldlefty….I don’t know if we ever know the difference between News and propaganda for sure. After the invasion of Iraq, I met a women from Turkey. She told me about her Muslim religion adding how the extremist using bombs and killing others was against their religious belief. She felt there was a great deal of propaganda in our news. She also believed that Israel was controlling the United States. I pointed out that her homeland propaganda was probably as serious as our and maybe we are all just searching for the Golden Thread of Truth. We found ourselves crying together for all the lives that would be lost due to this war. Just your everyday Christian and Muslim women, shedding tears together! I try to check out many different sources but the right wing media has become more difficult to listen to because of the sound of bigotry and violence!
January 13th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Why oh why are some conservative Christians so afraid and obsessed with being attacked? God is all knowing, and if you are attacked and you die it is the will of God. You can’t control everything, you simply have to put your faith in a higher power. That higher power’s name is not George Bush.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
POSTED BY OLDLEFTY
Normally, I never read a post that you have to scroll but I make an exception for you, Lefty. You have proven yourself “scroll worthy”.
The difference is simple… it’s all about the political takedown. Fair and unbiased broadcasting doesn’t include programming segments like Bushed on Olberman’s Countdown or Patriot or Pinheadon O’Reilly’s show.
If I’m being as unbiased as I can as a liberal, I go back to what I said in an earlier post:
MSNBC…. waaaaaay left… even more so than Fox is right.
Fox….. waaaaay right… in an insulting way. They try to pretend to be unbiased whereas I don’t think MSNBC tries to hide it.
CNN…. the most objective of the three… can’t think of any of it’s regular programming that takes cheap political shots.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Hmmm. Yeah, it is only conservatives or Christians who don’t want to die in a terrorist attack. Great point. We are just silly freaks who want to live to see another day.
No democrat feels that way, uh uh, not at all.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
I like Lou Dobbs
January 13th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Blissful –
Nice try, but come on Bill Clinton has probably been the most investigated President EVER! The modern day lynching, lead by hypocrite Newt looked at everything Bill Clinton did from the time of birth until the blue dress scandal – I’m sure they even knew what his bowel movements looked like. If there was anything and I mean anything, they would have found it.
But….after months and months of investigations and spending over 50 MILLION dollars, all they came up with was a “BJ”. Let’s just say that was probably the world’s most expensive “BJ”. Makes the 3.7 million that so called virgin in the other thread look cheap.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Lou is unbiased.
He thinks EVERYONE is inept and dishonest.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Danielle
what do you mean come on? You are griping about wiretaps all the while bill did everything I listed. So, where is your outrage now???
PFKAM
He is on to something. He doesn’t play favorites and calls it like it is. Very refreshing
January 13th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
No one I know is obsessed with dying in a terrorist attack. And if you believe as you claim to believe then you shouldn’t be either. No one wants to die; however, this obsession with Arabs, Muslims,terrorist,and dying in terrorist attacks is unnatural,unhealthy, and just plain silly.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I like Lou also. Refreshing not to just hear one parties or anothers talking points. Don’t alway agree but at least he makes me think.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Obsession or vigilance??? Who exactly attacked us on 9/11? I don’t want to travel with you if you think being vigilant is silly.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Blissful -
If you want to keep on insisting that Bill Clinton was this horrible, horrible person and that George Bush is some God, go right ahead.
Sure Clinton made mistakes as did every other President; but the point is that nobody even comes close to the hideous, embarrasment of the Bush / Cheney administration.
But honestly, I work in the Mental Health field and I learned along time ago that there is no point in even trying to talk people out of their delusions.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
I never said George Bush was a God, but he isn’t the demon YOU and others make him out to be.
If you can’t admit that clinton did the same darn thing bush did, except instead of phone lines it was kicking in your door and using infrared to look at you in your house, then knock yourself out.
You are right. Some people really are delusional.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Susan,
Yeah…I’m personally more concerned about the “Christian Jihadists” harming this country.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
What is this obsession you have with Clinton? We try to talk about Bush and you jump in with “what about Clinton”? That was ten years ago. The rest of the country moved on – except you.
You really need to get off this Clinton fixation.
” If you can’t admit that clinton did the same darn thing bush did, except instead of phone lines it was kicking in your door and using infrared to look at you in your house, then knock yourself out.”
There you go again. Talking out of your ass. Do you have proof? And I don’t mean from a right-wing Hannity type source.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Danielle:
You say you work in a mental health facility? Is there anything we can do to break Blissful of her Clinton obsession?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
It’s called over vigilant paranoid obsessions!
January 13th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Blissful -
Why do you keep just going back to wiretapping and spying. That’s one of the least hideous offenses Bush did.
What about:
- Bombing the wrong country?
- Shredding the Constitution?
- Destroying our image internationally and making us the laughing stock of the rest of the world.
- Condoning torture practices?
I’ll tell you what, if a thorough investigation is completed on Bush / Cheney and it turns up nothing – I will publicly apologize to them.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Blissful -
Why do you keep just going back to wiretapping and spying. That’s one of the least hideous offenses Bush did.
What about:
- Bombing the wrong country?
- Shredding the Constitution?
- Destroying our image internationally and making us the laughing stock of the rest of the world.
- Condoning torture practices?
I’ll tell you what, if a thorough investigation is completed on Bush / Cheney and it turns up nothing – I will publicly apologize to them.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
TDRO -
There are some good medications on the market for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
On a lighter note: Palin now claims that the McCain campaign tried to “shut her up.” Maybe they thought she suffered from foot in the mouth syndrome.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
blissfulconservative,
Great strawman arguments!
~ Pardon all the people in Gitmo.
~ Close Gitmo on day one and let them allll go free.
How about just charge and try them or let them go. Your inability to empathise with potentially innocent people being held for seven years, is based on your inability to believe that YOUR tribe would do such a thing.
.~ Get rid of the Patriot Act.
There is no evidence that it hurts anyone other than Americans, which is why the librarians were against it.
~ . Eliminate executive orders that allowed the FBI, CIA and other agencies to share information.
No one suggested that, other than never using the CIA to spy on Americans.
~ Issue orders . for the immediate withdrawal of all US forces in Iraq and Afganistan.
Again, who is suggesting that? The mess is made.
~ . Issue an Executive Order prohibiting listening in on phone calls or using other types of electronic surveillance.
That’s why the FISA court is there, not on the president’s order alone. You SHOULD agree, if you don’t want a rouge leebrul to spy on chuches..
~ In other words, put the country back to where Clinton left it, as it was on 9/10/2001.
You mean before the president ignored presidential briefs and said, “OK, you covered you’re a$$”?
As for :
“Are you excusing that action or once again blaming republicans for something a democrat did???
……………………………………………………….
If it ACTUALLY happened, the opposition party should have provided the oversight WE found lacking in the Democrats when they don’t investigate the Bush administration.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
“”The ACTUAL left is concerned with the World Bank, the WTO and the IMF, the trade marking of seeds in poor countries, the privatizing of water, etc. Stories NEVER covered by the corporate MSM.”"
Indeed we are. But I wonder if the real reason these things are not discussed on major US networks is ratings, not political leanings?
After all, no station, cable or otherwise, is going to risk pointing out the dismal shortcomings and failings of the MDGs and USAID by the US, and this is bi-partisan, because Clinton didn’t do much better.
And as far as Monsanto is concerned, lol…put it this way, the United Fruit Company is still regarded as a great American success story in Central America, by many, isn’t it?
No, for the best coverage it is often necessary to listen to overseas media. Except for the fact that not much is said about Canada (except by our friends, the Swedes), I often turn to the Guardian Weekly for print, which I subscribe to, or the BBC on Sirius , if anyone is curious for a recommendation, which I guess I doubt on here…
January 13th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
I am LOL right now. Break me of my clinton obsession??? How many posts have you (insert your name, you should know who you are) submitted about palin/mccain/bush being an evil dictator??
Isn’t the election over, and you still talk about palin??
January 13th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Deborah,MN,
I saw a US Marine Captain who served in the United States Central Command media office during the invasion of Iraq,who said that al jazeera wsa the Fox News of the Middle East.
Both tells their listeners what they want to hear.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Medication wouldn’t work for her. She’d think she was cured and go off her medication, starting the whole process again.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Old,
so do you or don’t you fault clinton for signing those??? hmmmmmm. Since you and others are ready to condemn bush for illegal wiretaps you should extend the same treatment to a dem.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Hey old,
which tv station is the MSNBC of the middle east?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Bombing the wrong country
Which one?
When did he shred the constitution?
I’m not sure why the USA has to have a good appoval rating around the globe,
Condoning torture practices
You bet if it saves one US soldiers life torture all of them..remember they were taken off a battlefield
January 13th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Blissful -
Bush is still in office and McCain / Bush is only a recent nightmare. Clinton has been out of office for eight years, and people are still obsessing about his blowjob.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Isn’t the election over and your still demeaning Obama?! Isn’t the election over and Palin is still talking about the election, and still throwing McCain under the bus?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
MK:
Were you living in isolation for the past 8 years?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Old,
so do you or don’t you fault clinton for signing those??? hmmmmmm. Since you and others are ready to condemn bush for illegal wiretaps you should extend the same treatment to a dem.
Posted by blissfulconservative
……………………………………
#1) I don’t know that it’s true.
#2) When have you ever been as critical of Bush/Cheney as you expect liberals to be of Clinton or Carter?
And why do you assume that there is an version of MSNBC in the Middle East?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
I haven’t demeaned obama. How have I demeaned Obama????????
Danielle you bring up his BJ more than any other poster on this site. I noted MORE THAN once it wasn’t about a freakin’ BJ. It was about Obstruction of justice. Remember that?
The fact is, you have to talk bad about conservatives because you have nothing good to say about your own party right now.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
TDRO
Do you ever have a point?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Blissful Conservative:
TORTURE
Bush condoned using KGB techniques on humans. Physical and psychological torture.
We are supposed to be the good guys: to hold up some sort of standard to the world. But this made us the bad guys. We have become just bad guys fighting other bad guys, don’t you see? We lost our honor and nobility.And this administration did this. Undid years of international progress.
They should be tried for war crimes, if nothing else.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Old,
If there is a version of Fox news, there HAS to be a version of MSNBC.
You don’t know if it is true or not???
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200512200946.asp
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/09/warrantless_wir.html
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.29190/pub_detail.asp
January 13th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
W. Bush became president on 9-12-2001.He was in Exile for 8-months while blaming B. Clinton for everything. When did Bush recognize the threat of terror and the inherited recession? Did he put in place any plan to face those problems?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
We are the good guys we could of just shot them all on the battlefield instead of housing them feeding them allowing them the Koran and prayer time.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
SKy,
Yeah, until bush took office everyone loved us.
Now everyone hates us, but everyone will love love love us again with obama.
Reality check.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
TORTURE
January 13th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
It doesn’t matter if everyone loves if your honor is intact. Now it is sullied.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
MK -
You can’t be serious?
“Bombing the wrong country”
Well, let’s see – I think even the crazy Taliban were hiding in their caves wondering why in the he!! we weren’t killing them. They were saying to one another, “they’re bombing Iraq, really – well ok, I guess we got off the hook for that one”.
“When did he shred the Constitution”?
Well obviously you haven’t been focusing too much on Cheney have you? Let’s start with stretching the Executive Branch of the Gov’t to fit their own agenda.
“I’m not sure why we need to have a good approval rating around the world”?
I honestly don’t even know where to start with that one. Let’s just say bombing countries and killing thousands of innocent civilians isn’t a really good way to make friends and influence people. And I know I’m going to open up a huge can of worms here – but do you not think our undying, never ending support of Israel had nothing to do with 9/11? Now before people start flipping out and calling me an anti-Semantic or a Nazi sympathizer; I have absolutely nothing against Israel, think they have every right to defend their self, think if their existence were in jeopardy that we should intervene…but there have been times in the past where we threw so much support behind them, even when it didn’t even make any sense to do so.
“Condoning torture practices”.
So you see no need for a country like the United States of America to have a HIGHER standard of conduct than that of terrorists? Sure, let’s just act like them. Set’s a fine example of crimes against humanity!
January 13th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
I say we let this doofus go back to his ranch where he belongs and try to put this chapter of American history behind us.
Let’s all take some ownership (as a country) in electing him to office in the first place… not once… but twice. He didn’t know what he was doing and it was obvious from the beginning. The country wanted an evangelical above and beyond everything else and that’s what we got.
Let’s just call the last eight years a real lesson in what happens when you don’t do your due diligence.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
We are the good guys we could of just shot them all on the battlefield instead of housing them feeding them allowing them the Koran and prayer time.
Posted by mk
……………………….
That’s EXACTLY what they say. You sound just like them.
CONGRATULATIONS!
January 13th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
More sarcasm:”Now everyone hates us, but everyone will love love love us again with Obama.”
January 13th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
danielle
How many captives have we beheaded?? I’d pick rock and roll music over a beheading any day of the week.
susan,
that isn’t saracasm, it is the attitude a lot of liberals have.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Under the good approval rating part – I meant to say “bombing countries and killing thousands of innocent civilians – when we had no business starting that war in the first place”.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Blissful -
Yeah…I thinking you’re down playing the Bush / Cheney role in the practice of torture just a tad!
I would take rock n’ roll to waterboarding as well.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
PFKAM:
We can’t. We have to deal with this, because if we don’t, we become culpable. War crimes were ordered by this man. Crimes against humanity. We have to show the world that we do not back that. Because we ARE more civilized than that.
If he is not tried, if Rumsfeld is not tried, if those responsible for ordering and legally protecting torture are not tried… who knows? Maybe the world will eventually demand that they be tried in an international court (as I believe they should be)
We should take care of it first, and regain our honor.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
It may or may not be the attitude of a lot of liberals;however, when you use that statement as your own you are making it sarcastic. I realize now that you really do not understand the nuances of what you write or what you say.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Blissful Conservative:
How very low and callous your comment was.
Many_if not all_ Guanatanamo Bay and Abu Gharib torture victims would have preferred death to what our government did to them. Beheading would have been merciful.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
When I use that statement as my own it is what it is. You fail to realize that a lot of folks are delusional enough to think that just because he is in office the world is going to love us.
Do you realize that pro hamas iranians were burning his image this week in protest to the israel/hamas conflict?? He isn’t even in office yet, and they are carrying their hate over to the next guy.
The fact is, it doesn’t matter who is in charge some hate us for no other reason than we aren’t like them.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
…and some hate us because we have TORTURED people.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
…and some hate us for bombing countries we had no business bombing.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
….and some people hate us for ignoring things like the United Nations International War Law. You know…that War Law that if any other country ignores, we call them terrorists.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
…and some hate us because we can be real arrogant a**holes when we are visiting other countries as tourists.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
sorry: off-topic.
but yeah, good point Danielle: does that make the US a terrorist organization?
January 13th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
…and some hate us because we have killed their loved ones and destroyed their families, all in the name of spreading democracy.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
…and some hate us because we said that the invasion of Iraq and the murder and mayhem that followed was a “task from God.”
January 13th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
(like crazy muslim terrorists do)
January 13th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
”’and some hate us because we called our campaign shock and awe, some were in shock, no one was in awe!
January 13th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
People hate US gorvernment because of our “National self interest policy .That is, it’s oke to control/ take over foreign natural ressources by any means. Why can’t we share?
January 13th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Sky – no, but it makes Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld war criminals.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Is that something like the pot calling the kettle black?
January 13th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
POSTED BY BLISSFULCONSERVATIVE
Gimme an example.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
All I can say is that I want my 9 year old son to always be proud to be an American; and this torture issue is nothing to be proud about. It’s not only disgraceful but it has weakened our integrity when it comes to speaking out for crimes against humanity.
My son has dual citizenship (my husband is French), he hears enough anti-American snobby French crap to begin with, he doesn’t need to hear that he lives in a country that condones practices of torture.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:09 am
POSTED BY DANIELLE
I think he can be. I think the international community is much more Anti-Bush than they are Anti-American, although… don’t get me wrong… we got some serious makin’ up to do.
I’ve done my “flag waving” (as frosty calls it) on here before but I truly believe there is good that can come out of this mess. Look at the voter turn out for cryin’ out loud. Americans are waking up and are becoming accountable for their country.
That’s the good news. It’s very good news… and it’s over now.
Here’s the bad news… and just like all bad news it can’t be fixed overnight. it’s going to take some time to undo our F’d up reputation. I’m afraid that our reputation is so F’d up that hanging W in the town square isn’t going to speed it along.
Your son is 9. Mine starts college next fall. I want him to have a job when he gets out. And I sure as hell don’t want him fighting in a stupid war.
Here’s the PFKAM international diplomacy plan:
1. We sit down and talk with anyone that wants to sit down and talk. What bad has ever come out of that?
2. We take down all walls and fences. Who wants to live behind a wall? This isn’t East Berlin. Besides… what kind of message does that send to the rest of the world. It just doesn’t look good.
3. We apologize to the U.N. and go back to being a real member… not just when we agree with the consensus.
4. We withdraw our brave soldiers from Iraq and provide them and their families with the support they deserve for their service.
That’s all I’ve got for right now but it’s a start. I just want the Bush era to be over as soon as possible so we can get busy going forward.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:53 am
Sounds like a plan to me!
January 14th, 2009 at 1:25 am
Sounds like a plan!
January 14th, 2009 at 1:30 am
If someone could explain how Bush could seriously put forth the landing of Air Force One as “something he could have done differently” in handling Katrina…
Well…
We’d have no further need of Nostradamus.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:41 am
Danielle,
I’m curious about the “hideous” things Bush has done. Could you fill me in each of the issues you list?:
- Bombing the wrong country? What “wrong” country did Bush bomb?
- Shredding the Constitution? Just how did he “shred” the constitution?
- Destroying our image internationally and making us the laughing stock of the rest of the world. What nations are laughing at us?
- Condoning torture practices? What torture practices do you believe that Bush has introduced?
I hear lots of generalities but no specifics so am curious as to what they might be…
Thanks in advance
January 14th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Hey Lefty,
I left you a message on the Haggard thread… ;-)
January 14th, 2009 at 2:39 am
Bye-Bye Alan Commes…Hannity might like you…BUT I DO NOT!!!
January 14th, 2009 at 3:33 am
Kregg,
If the message was:
“Lefty, you need to go to your church – the library – more often…”
Alrighty, then…
January 14th, 2009 at 6:42 am
12 more days,we haved been Bushed enough. It,s time to move on and pray like hell Obama does not screw up like Bush reguardless of your party.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Kregg,
The wrong country Bush bombed was Iraq. It was a pre 9/11 plan. These guys simply did not let anti-terrorism get in the way of their 9/11 plan.\
How did he “shred” the constitution?
The Bush administration’s lawyers claim they have a right to seize and detain any American citizen they see as a threat to the United States. President Bush’s lawyers are claiming that he has the right to authorize “indefinite executive detention” without oversight by Congress or the Judiciary.
Besides the NSA, the Pentagon, Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Department of Homeland Security and dozens of private contractors are spying on millions of Americans 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. Don’t forget convicted felon, John Poindexter’s Information Awareness (TIA) system.
As for destroying our image internationally and making us the laughing stock of the rest of the world. What nations are laughing at us?
I don’t know about laughing at us as much as feeling that the bright light was dimming, and by 2004, many throughout the world though that the light that was “America” was gone.
Between the lying about wmd, (whether you agree or not, MOST countries believed Downing Street memos, OVER the Bush administration), spying , the rendering, the destroying presidential records, The power gained by those promoting the Unitary Executive, Paul Bremer writing Milton Friedman, Chicago School free market principals into the Iraqi constitution, the contempt for science….Much of the world feared that the American experiment was over.
And lastly, “Condoning torture practices? What torture practices do you believe that Bush has introduced?”
The biggest problem is we DON’T know.
We DO know about the Bybee memo, and that in 2006, John Yoo wrote that if the president deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no treaty that can stop him.
We know that Jose Padilla NOW is so broken we will never know the truth. We DO know that none of the original allegations put forward by the government were part of the indictment against him.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:45 am
PFKAM
“MSNBC…. waaaaaay left… even more so than Fox is right.
Fox….. waaaaay right… in an insulting way.”
Here’s a question:
Why?
What constitutes right or left?
To me, it seems that right now, it’s not so much basic principals like, does it trickle down, or does it perculate up? Do we need the government more in the boardroom, or in the bed room…..
It seems more, like anti Bush = Left, while pro Bush = right, but it does not account for the conservatives who are critical of Bush like John Dean, Bruce Fein, even Pat Buchanan at times, or those on the left who are critical of Democrats.
What I call “waaaaaay left” is Democracy Now.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:00 am
WAAAAAY left blames republicans for EVERYTHING while ignoring the mistakes dems have made.
WAAAAAAAY right ignores anything republicans have done wrong.
It has nothing to do with George Bush
January 14th, 2009 at 8:02 am
WAAAAAY left blames republicans for EVERYTHING while ignoring the mistakes dems have made.
WAAAAAAAY right ignores anything republicans have done wrong.
………………………………………..
Only in the infotainment industry.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:08 am
PFKAM
Give you an example?? Muslim extremists, including Al Qaeda. Hamas, hezbollah just to name a few.
If George Bush was given permission to wiretap then he didn’t break the law. As I stated earlier(with links to the articles) the clinton adminstration’s position was that if the administration felt there was a threat they could use infrared to look in people’s homes, and utilized the same wiretapping efforts the current administration has allegedly used WITHOUT a warrant.
If you have such an issue with it now, after 9/11, where were the outcries over a decade ago??
I am not bashing clinton, but I am pointing out if you were okay with it then you should be okay with it now.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:09 am
Old,
NO. the print media, the MSM as well. You think all of CNN is infotainment? I have also posted links to studies done at harvard that indicate an EXTREME liberal bias during this last election cycle with the MSM.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:10 am
blissfulconservative,
Yes, I think ALL cable news is infotainment.
And you posted links to conservatives alleging EXTREME liberal bias during this last election cycle with the MSM.
Are ALSO many, many stories of EXTREME conservative bais durning the 2000 and 2004 elections.
It STILL doesn’t answer the question, how would you know if you are just being marketed to?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Old,
Harvard’s study was right wing biased??? I don’t think so. My links were not to right wing sites.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Kregg,
I thought I did answer each question; if you refuse to believe the truth than I don’t know what else to tell you.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Here is a story that relates to the study. It was done at harvard, not exactly a conservative school.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=278808786575124
BTW, Old
Did you hear the internationl red cross has said the israeli’s are NOT misuing phosphorus in Gaza???
January 14th, 2009 at 8:38 am
I DID see your, Joan Shorenstein Center and the Project for Excellence in Journalism, on more favorable coverage for Obama.
I will give it to you on one level, but here is why I think it doesn’t prove liberal bias:
First off, According to a Scientific American study: “Despite popular accounts, researchers found that Barack Obama got more negative press coverage than John McCain did in the early summer”
The Joan Shorenstein Center and the Project for Excellence in Journalism only documents how many favorable references versus unfavorable,
What if Obama’s plans and statements ARE more positive?
What should they do if the facts favor Obama?
When McCain says the foundations of our economy are strong when the economy is crashing, and his chief economic advisor calls Americans “whiners”, do they have to try to spin it positive, to be fair?
When people said they did not like the way McCain did not look at Obama in the first debate, should the media not report it unless they have something EQUALLY negative to say about Obama.
Should they hide the facts that caused Peggy Noonan to say Obama seemed like the “older, more steady fellow”, just to appear fair?
In 2000, they didn’t mind misquoting Gore, then printing retractions a week later on pp20, after the damage was done.
So called liberal columnists like Mureen Dowd were falling all over themselves to repeat the RNC talking points against Gore.
I think the greatest complaint against the media is the tend to be fingers in the winders, in other words, gage first what the people want to hear, then accommodate them.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Old
You are spinning but it ain’t workin’. You know good and well I could have posted 50 more articles/links to studies and the outcome would have been the same.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:24 am
blissfulconservative
I’m not spinning.
Someone used the example, if one side says 2+2=4, and the other side says 2+2=16, do you give both sides equal treatment?
Does the moderate say, 2+2=8?
McCain DID get better coverage earlier on, that’s why he called the media ‘his base’ I think he crashed and burned, and the media followed suit.
Anyway, for the good of the country, I’m glad they were not as biased against Obama as they were against Gore.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:43 am
TDRO
Do you ever have a point?
Posted by mk
Do you know what the hell you’re talking about?
January 14th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
“Who is vetting these people?”
Posted by blissfulconservative
Just a little update on this: The man did pay his taxes after they discovered he made a mistake (I know, hard to believe because you never make mistakes). And Obama vetted him, which is how they found out about his tax problem.
By the way, If this were George Bush, we would hear nothing about any republican tax mistake. They’d try their hardest to hide it.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
TDRO,
he is going to be head of the IRS and you can’t admit there is a problem with him NOT paying taxes??
This isn’t george bush, this is obama and just like richardson he made a bad choice
January 14th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Blissful:
His payment was part of the $9 billion that was “lost” in Iraq.
“he is going to be head of the IRS and you can’t admit there is a problem with him NOT paying taxes??”
Why not? We had a president that really f@#$%^ up the country, a horse rancher as head of FEMA, a housekeeper as white house counsel and I should worry about someone who didn’t pay his taxes?
We have more important things to worry about. By the way, you complained that Obama wasn’t qualified to be president (like Bush was), so somebody who didn’t pay his taxes shouldn’t be a problem for you.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
OK. George Bush did NOT order illegal wiretaps on US citizens. He did order that all calls that were suspect coming INTO America from suspected terrorists be tapped. Nothing illegal about that. Geeesssshhh. I wish you would get that straight.
The MAJORITY of Congressmen, that includes Democrats, voted to authorize the war in Iraq, so get off that bandwagon.
Pres. Bush did not sacrifice any soldier’s life.
He never outed a CIA agent. Her name was put out there by Hermitage or what ever his name is.
Don’t you ever read or listen to any form of news.
And this torture thing is getting old.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Oh, by the way, my post above was for TDRO.
How you doing?
January 14th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
TDRO,
With the economy in the tank and folks not being able to pay their taxes because they are out of work, etc. you darn right I think it calls his ability into question.
HE is going to be in charge of the IRS. THE IRS. And he doesn’t know that he is supposed to pay taxes?? The guy who didn’t know he had to pay taxes is going to tell ME how to pay my taxes??
gimme a break.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Willy:
If Bush had nothing to hide regarding wiretapping, why didn’t he just get a warrant? It’s not like time was of the essence.
The MAJORITY in congress were republicans. The war would have happened even if all the democrats voted against the war.
Bush and Cheney are responsible for 4500+ American deaths and countless Iraqi deaths because he lied about Iraq being responsible for 9/11 and the WMD’s.
If Cheney is not responsible for outing a CIA agent, why is Scooter Libby in prison (if Bush hasn’t pardoned him yet)
Don’t you ever read or listen to any form of news.
And you think torture is getting old? Yeah. like this war. But don’t concern yourself with the soldiers dying over there, you need to really put all your energy into worrying about a guy who made a mistake on his taxes.
By the way, I’m fine – how are you?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
You don’t make a mistake for 4 years, especially after the IRS tells you that you shouldn’t be doing that (he did it for 2 years, got audited then did the same thing again)
AND he didn’t pay the taxes until recently…like after being tapped for the job. Uh huh. Very upstanding.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
“You don’t make a mistake for 4 years, especially after the IRS tells you that you shouldn’t be doing that”
Your argument is moot since Bush has been making “mistakes” consistently for 8 years.
“AND he didn’t pay the taxes until recently…like after being tapped for the job. Uh huh. Very upstanding.”
Posted by blissfulconservative
Yeah, like Bush’s “we don’t torture” lie and his “Iraq was responsible for 9/11 lie”. Very upstanding ‘merican that Bushie is!
Gee, I wonder how many people died because this guy didn’t pay his taxes. I’d check into that if I were you, Blissful.
But. really, don’t concern yourself with all the killing happening in Iraq for the sake of oil. After all, you’re not there dying, so why should you care?
You just concern yourself with that income tax mistake. THAT is your main priority in life.
After all, if republicans have their way, this can be as horrific as Clinton’s BJ, and we can’t have THAT now, can we? Maybe you can hire Tom DeLay to lecture us on corporate ethics.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
TDRO
Your posts on this topic really are pointless, because everything you bring up has nothing to do with it. I am beginning to think you have tourette’s because everytime you post the words George Bush fly off your keyboard.
Especially when the post has NOTHING to do with Bush and everything to do with the president elect making a crappy pick.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
TDRO-
Save some time as well as some of your sanity. They’ll never admit to any Bush mistakes and of course now everything will just become Obama’s fault.
Unbelievable if you think about it – the last eight years have been he!!, but it’s all Clinton and Obama’s fault!
January 14th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Senator Whitehouse should leave this issue alone. Our country is divided enough. This site alone shows how divided we are. The best way is too learn from the mistakes and hope our gov,t will work togather alot more. I have and alot of fellow libs and some consers have beaten up a president that is in denial. A VP that is in total denial without repentances. 8 years of not taking responsablity of their actions and goverment does not work that way.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:11 am
At this point, there is no evidence that proves Bush/Cheney did anything illigal.
I prefer to try to unite this country that is so very divided. Much like during and after the civil war. Obama has claimed to unite us, so let the Bush derangement syndrome go. Investigating him will only cost us much money (that we don’t have) and keep the division going. Just more playing into our enemies hands. And for those of you who aren’t worried about our enemies, I’m glad you are not in charge.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Very true SUE. Not taking up for Bush as well. Going into Iraq was a major mistake.
January 15th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
“Your posts on this topic really are pointless, because everything you bring up has nothing to do with it”
Posted by blissfulconservative
You mean like how you always bring up Clinton? And I have tourette’s? I noticed you like to do a lot of projecting.
But now that I understand your problem, I’ll try to be more sympathetic in the future.
January 15th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Good luck their TDRO ON YOUR POST AT 2:10 pm.
January 15th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Sue:
at this point there is a LOT of evidence that Bush/Cheney have done many illegal things.
January 15th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
SKY – elaborate, with specific examples, if you would…
January 15th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Sky,
Where is the evidence? What evidence is there? Where are the facts that you have that show any evidence of illegal actions?
January 15th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Willy,
This is my perspective. There are some serious allegations out there. One of which, torture, Bush just admitted to for some reason. Many of these allegations seem to be believed as true by a decent number if not a majority of Congresses constituents. For the sake of argument I will leave my opinion of illegal actions or not out of this. I believe that in this case it is congresses job to investigate. I do not know if we can trust them not to go on a witch hunt, the country certainly does not need that at this time, but a proper investigation where they could look at the evidence to help determine the facts and find out for sure if there are any illegal actions. If this is done properly then any illegal actions that may have happened could be dealt with and if there were not any the issue could be put to rest so we can move forward.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Jared, Willy:
The facts are there. You know they are. I don’t have to prove any of this to you, because if you had a shred of human decency, or a modicum of sense, you wouldn’t ask.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:08 pm