Who’s Behind These “Tea Parties”?
Contrary to the myth that this is some kind of grassroots movement, and neither left nor right, three conservative organizations are driving the tax day “protests.” They want to be seen as non-partisan, but what are they protesting if not that the conservatives behind it are not in power any longer? In fact, in Orlando during a March tea party protest, “Impeach Obama” signs abounded.
The Atlantic explores who’s greasing the wheels behind the movement, and it’s three conservative organizations.
They are: FreedomWorks, the conservative action group led by Dick Armey; dontGO, a tech savvy free-market action group that sprung out of last August’s oil-drilling debate in the House of Representatives; and Americans for Prosperity, an issue advocacy/activist group based on free market principles.
Freedom Works began actively organizing months ago with tutorials on writing press releases, calling talk shows, carpooling, and what to do the day of the protests; don’tGO began as an effort to attack Democrats who didn’t subscribe to their detailed energy plan of “drill, drill, drill.” Americans for Prosperity (as opposed to Americans who are anti-prosperity) is gathering
names and organizing locations. This is the group that most recently had Republican Party spokesman Joe the Plumber rallying against the Employee Free Choice Act.
And if there is any further doubt that this isn’t a GOP-supported operation, the Republican National Committee is asking supporters to send a virtual tea bag to President Obama.
At Huffington Post, Tina Dupuy has perspective on the so-called “movement,” explaining the difference between the original Boston Tea Party and this ersatz event.
The Boston Tea Party was standing up to tyranny after years of neglect. Not standing up to being mad that your candidate didn’t win. The tea was a symbol of the tone deafness and arrogance of King George. Everyone knew Englishmen (which the colonist were) could never live without tea, so British Parliament imposed a huge tax on it. So instead of Liptons being thrown into various bodies of water around this country – the symbolic equivalent would be cutting up your credit cards. Credit card companies are taxing Americans with no representation – but they know that Americans can’t live without them. So where’s that mutiny?
The dontGO folks think they’re “brewing a revolution” and that they’re the “silent majority no more!” The problem is, besides them not being silent, they’re not the majority. The majority spoke quite loudly in November, and they ain’t it.
But heck, if you’re an ear piercing minority calling yourself a ’silent majority’ what’s a little fact fudging between friends. It’s a little archaic throw back to the Bush Misnomers (titles for things that don’t match what they actually do) – the Clean Sky Initiatives (that aided in pollution) – The Patriot Act (that squashed The Constitution) or my favorite The State of the Union Address (the wedge for the divide was more like it).
So, have your fun, “teabaggers.” I will always stand up for your right to speak and assemble, (even though when my side waved the First Amendment in your faces, we were called unpatriotic). But if you really want to “take this country back,” get yourself some good candidates and some positions on issues that actually resonate with the majority of Americans. And you can then be a very non-silent majority at the voting booth.
Thanks Alan. Astroturf!
And now a message from the “Silent Majority”…
Teabagging Party!
(while I am working through moderation Google Teabag Party!)
April 14th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
The Boston Tea party was ACTUALLY a protest against The Tea Act of 1973 ,which provided corporate tax cuts, to increase the profitability of the East India Company to its stockholders (which included the King), and to help the company drive its colonial small business competitors out of business.
These lobbyist Tea parties are the antithesis of the Boston tea party. They were hatched by the Washington elite, to whine about tax cuts for small business.
In 1776, A newsletter called The Alarm signed by an enigmatic “Rusticus,” articulated the discontent of colonial Americans about England’s largest transnational corporation, Thje East India Company and its behavior around the world:
“Are we in like Manner to be given up to the Disposal of the East India Company, who have now the Assurance, to step forth in Aid of the Minister, to execute his Plan, of enslaving America? Their Conduct in Asia, for some Years past, has given simple Proof, how little they regard the Laws of Nations, the Rights, Liberties, or Lives of Men. They have levied War, excited Rebellions, dethroned lawful Princes, and sacrificed Millions for the Sake of (Jain. The Revenues of Mighty Kingdoms have centered in their Coffers. And these not being sufficient to glut their Avarice, they have, by the most unparalleled Barbarities, Extortions, and Monopolies, stripped the miserable Inhabitants of their Property, and reduced whole Provinces to Indigence and Ruin. Fifteen hundred Thousands, it is said, perished by Famine in one Year, not because the Earth denied its Fruits; but [because] this Company and their Servants engulfed all the Necessaries of Life, and set them at so high a Rate that the poor could not purchase them.”
WalMart or Halliburton anyone??
KAC Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Nobody is claiming these Tea Parties are analogues of the Boston Tea party or are protesting the same issue(s). These are much more directed toward out of control government spending, endless bailouts and the general fubaring of the economy by the current government policies. All of which will be placed on the backs of the taxpayers for the next several generations.
libpatriot Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
I’ve heard many conservatives claim to be protesting in the same spirit as the Boston Tea Party. Runaway government spending didn’t seem to bother the conservatives when Congressional Republicans and Bush were in charge for years. The general fubaring of the economy is the result of years of conservative policies gravitating wealth to the most prosperous Americans only, and refusing to rescind those tax cuts when two wars needed financing.
Now that the good people are in charge again in Washington, our spending will be for America’s future (not nation-building some other country’s future, for a change) in forward-looking energy policy, efficient health care at last, and landscape and infrastructure improvement that will strengthen the middle class (in terms of quality of life as well as vocationally) and put more contributing taxpayers to help pay down our debt in a few short years.
It’s lame for the Republicans to pick the Boston Tea Party as a patriotic touchstone, when it involved vandalism and attempting to frame Indians for that vandalism by dressing up as Native Americans. Not exactly our proudest moment in Revolutionary days; not exactly comparable to nearly freezing to death to hold ground at Valley Forge.
April 14th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
The gras roots tea party is nothing but spontaneous as
claimed by the R-WINGS NUTS. It was their commander in
chief,El Rush-no, who declared the revolt at the CPAC
conference.
They are protesting against tax increase; yet the
Bush tax cut is still in place.
And actually Obama has not implemented any tax
increase, yet.
So,the INSANNITEA is protesting the Bush tax rate.
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
maybe you should read what you write before posting? That way you can make sure it passes the “sanity check”.
April 14th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
who was saying this wasn’t a rightwing issue…and what’s the definition of grassroots…some organization is behind everything. If this doesn’t count as grassroots than nothing can be considered grassroot. Large groups don’t do anything spontaneously there is always organization behind it.
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
The organization this time is brought on only by the right-wing nut talk show hosts and the right-wing media elite. The rest of the ‘drones’, as Mark Levin likes to say, didn’t at all organize anything; they’re pretty much minnions following the orders of the leaders: Sean, Rush, Mark, Glenn, O’Reilly, et al.
A grassroots organization is usually not so aptly promoted by the media elite. It’s main organizers are the common people.
Montana Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Well said.
EricG Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 6:24 am
“.. what’s the definition of grassroots…some organization is behind everything.”
I’m sure not really asking for a textbook defintion but most everyone understands the words:
From the ground up.
Seems a good way to put it. Grassroots is not exclusively anti-establishment but most the ones I know are.
average james Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Good stuff Vegas.
April 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Amazing..
I think they should have named these protests the ‘Get in your cradle and shake your rattles’ party instead as it would seem a more apt description.
April 14th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
No they are called :
T-typsy
E-embittered
A-agitators
TYPSY EMBITTERED AGITATORS
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
LOL. Good one, Pierre. Those darn tipsy embittered agitators! Haha.
Sarah Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
It’s better than Tipsy Embittered Alligators.
Those really bite.
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Very true, Sarah. Very true. Beware the Tipsy Embittered Alligators… |:
April 14th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
“…and what’s the definition of grassroots…”
Merriam-Webster’s 11th Collegiate: the basic level of society or of an organization, especially as viewed in relation to higher or more centralized positions of power.
So, when it’s organized by the RNC, it ain’t grassroots.
EricG Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 6:27 am
That Webster’s doesn’t explain much. Like most raw defintions.
It ain’t grassroots anymore when it’s back by the RNc or the DNC but any current possible third party would qualify, as I understand it.
April 14th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Alan,
You sound very scared by these displays of free speech. You incorrectly state these tea bags are “right-wing republicans” who are upset they lost the election. Wake up. They are Americans from both sides of the aisle. Washington and all gov’t leaders are selling out the people. That is what they are protesting. Those who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it.
Sarah Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
There might be SOME left-wingers, but it’s mostly right-wing republican upset that they lost so many elections.
Obama’s been in office less than 3 months. Instead of throwing hissy fits, it would be nice if the right wing would offer IDEAS.
EricG Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 6:32 am
“Washington and all gov’t leaders are selling out the people”
It’s raw shameless behavior, Deb. After years of touting pro-Washington views suddenly all these conservatives are suddenly anti-estanlishment!?!
It’s like Sarah said.
This is what happens when you elect a black man.
That’s right. I said it again! Ya’ll got some racists running around calling themselves cons and you should CHECK YOUR RANKS.
April 14th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
FoxNews (FixedNews) has all but claimed ownership of the TEA protest.
The rabid right talking heads are promoting it big time; Fox is paying them to speak at the rallies; right wing financial interest are funding the logistics.
Even more interesting is the ‘urban dictionary’ definition of Teabagging.
Very funny.
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Fox is paying them to speak at the rallies; right wing financial interest are funding the logistics
Do you have proof of this or are you repeating what the “left-wing talking heads” are saying?
BarryB Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Eh, CNN reported on Monday the following fact. One liberal commentator on MSNBC is covering the Tea Parties, CNN just started on Monday and guess who is the primary source? That is right, FOX News.
By the way, Bill O’Reilly hasn’t really mentioned it and isn’t covering it, according to CNN.
April 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I, personally, think it’s about time the American people wake up and unite with dissenting voices at the ridiculous power grab the federal government has gotten comfortable with.
It seems as though our elected officials have no wont to “represent” the people of this country…contrastly, they seem all too willing to push personal agendas without regard for the long-term affects (Both Bush and Obama).
OLD LEFTY,
A couple of weeks ago, you were saying the American people would never stand up to Congress and the federal government about the ridiculous spending habits they’ve become accustomed to…now we have these “tea party’s” but you’re not condoning them?
Sure, there will be the “wackos” who will (by virture of the media’s penchant for “reporting” on the spectacular) become the “face” of the movement…but I sincerely hope we’re all a bit more discerning in who we decide will be representative of this group of citizen’s frustration with the federal government.
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
If you were concerned for the long-term effects of the Bush Administration then why’d you guys wait so long until you lost the election and a Democrat president took office to organize your little ‘tea-bagging’ parties? Admit it or not, there’s some bitterness in these tea parties because you guys lost and that is one of the main drivers of these events. ‘Sore Losers’ is synonymous to ‘Tea Baggers’ in this case. It’s evident.
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
VEGASLIB,
From what I understand of the intent of these tea parties is they are a protest of the expansion of government and government spending. I didn’t hear anyone credible saying these tea parties are a result of “losing” the election.
I’m not a republican, by the way.
If you’ll read a bit closer to what I wrote, you can see that I inferred frustration with the government…I didn’t identify the Obama administration or the Bush administration. Both are culpable…and I believe these tea parties are a manifestation of years of frustration.
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
You might not be Republican, Jared, but you very well do sympathize more with the Republicans than with the Democrats. That’s beside the point, though. Yeah, some people might be up there protesting the expansion of government, but the organizers had to wait until their opposition party was in office to protest such ‘expansion’. The Bush Administration expanded government a helluvalot too, but no one would speak out then. The fact that these ‘tea bagging parties’ are being organized three months into President Obama’s administration by the right-wing media elites points out, without the need for them to proclaim, that there’s an inept bitterness within the the ‘tea baggers’. It’s just simply evident that they’re mad that they lost. (Most of them)
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
VEGASLIB,
It’s true…I’m not a republican…I’m a moderate independent.
Agree the timing is a bit odd, and deserves some questions…but I think, from what I’ve researched (and not have been told by the MSM) the intent is finally protesting the exhorbitant spending the government is hell bent on doing.
OldLefty Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
I, personally, think it’s about time the American people wake up and unite with dissenting voices at the ridiculous power grab the federal government has gotten comfortable with.
…………………………………………..
That’s what we have been doing for the last seven years.
‘OLD LEFTY,
A couple of weeks ago, you were saying the American people would never stand up to Congress and the federal government about the ridiculous spending habits they’ve become accustomed to…now we have these “tea party’s” but you’re not condoning them? ‘
………………………………
When did I ever say that?
I’ve gotten up at 2:30 am, often enough to be in DC for protests.
Sure, there will be the “wackos” who will (by virture of the media’s penchant for “reporting” on the spectacular) become the “face” of the movement…but I sincerely hope we’re all a bit more discerning in who we decide will be representative of this group of citizen’s frustration with the federal government.
I think the people have spoken in the last election, and are now waiting to see how what they voted for works out.
I’m sorry, but I think these “tea parties” are just as someone else said, ‘pity parties for billionaires, started and funded by Wall Street and DC lobbyists and elites.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Anyone who claims this is a protest about taxes is a big fat liar. This is an Obama bashing rally which will bring out the right wingnuts in droves. To include some hood wearin types, I’ve heard.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Anyone who claims this is a protest about taxes is a big fat liar.
This is a protest about taxes.
This is an Obama bashing rally which will bring out the right wingnuts in droves.
Obama is unable to be protested against? That’s just stupid. Unless, of course, you are one of those left wingnut O’bots.
To include some hood wearin types, I’ve heard.
Touch inflammatory?
Um Cara Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Touch inflammatory?
Nah, you’ll only get burned. :p
pino Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Well done. That was good.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Liberals always attack most viciously what they feel most threatened by. The Tea Parties must be doing something right…
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
It’s the other way around KAC. In this case the ‘tea bagging parties’ are the vicious attacks. Obama seems to be you cons’ threat, and deep down inside you guys get this need to tea-bag whoever threatens your motives. (;
KAC Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Thank you Dr. Psychobabble. I feel much better now that I understand my true motives. Care for a cup of tea?
HAHAHA!
:p
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Haha. ‘Dr. Psychobabble.’ Love it. You feel your motives threatened, KAC? You know, since you offer tea. I think I’ll go to the VW microbus, too, and pack a bowl instead. (;
Um Cara Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Ack. Goofballs teabagging! Eeek! I’m so threatened., I think I’ll hide behind in my VW microbus.
Robert Blair Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 1:29 am
Actually, the anti tea baggers in Newport, Oregon are going to be handing out pacifiers (binkies) for all the tea baggers with handouts quoting ubandictionary.com’s definitions for tea bagging…..Marilyn Chambers was tea bagged several times, but that is another story….
April 14th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
The facts have been proven. The taxes raised where under Bush and Obama has not raised taxes.
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Indeed. I actually got a tax cut recently. My paycheck’s been bigger for over a month now. It’s the first time I ever experience a tax cut. (:
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Right on Vegas ! I will amit,the left bashed Bush,but what i am hearing from the right. It would take 2 years of explaining.
I never seen a president take this much bashing since the days of LBJ and Nixon.
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Didn’t see those days. Haha.
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I did and telling my age. The war in Nam. Protest all the time. I was in high school.
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Hey, at least it was before the war on drugs. LOL. I don’t have four years out of high school yet, but always wonder what it must’ve been like.
See you later guys, work’s over! Haha.
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Obama has not raised taxes
Incorrect. Obama’s administration just passed into law the largest commodity tax in recent history (tobacco products).
April 14th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
SARAH:
You need to stop looking at everything through political glasses. This is not a partisan hissy fit. It is well organized, calm expression of dissent. It just so happens to be on Obama’s watch because he is trying to push through so much spending but BOTH parties are to blame. People are now doing this because our leaders will not listen to us any other way. You have to admit that most of congress and the white house forget who they are working for once the get elected.
baD mR fRosTy Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I don’t admit that at all. Obama was elected by the American people to do something about the cesspool that Bush/Cheney left you in.
Give him a chance to get things started, why don’t you, lol?
Already, 6 months before expected, his policies are starting to seem to take effect. Are you far-right conservatives so married to your anger and embarrasment of a sound thrashing at the polls that you can’t even support America?
You hate your country now, because she has moved to the center?
VegasLib Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I agree that there are some people with these feelings about the ‘tea bagging parties’, Deb. And their intent is good, but most of the participants are promoting and attending the ‘tea-bagging parties’ simply because they are bitter and angry that their party isn’t in office any longer. They simply want to paint the current administration as tyrannous by comparing these events to the Boston Tea Party. It is evident.
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Amen and then some. Faux News in general. The network needs to change their foremat or looked upon as extreme right wing news.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
“”You might not be Republican, Jared, …”"
Indeed, lol!
I have never heard so many Americans, mostly the ones abandoning the sinking GOP in droves, identify themselves as “indepedents”, which can only be what Jared is reffering to, I dounbt very much he is a ‘Green”, or a “libertarian” (calling for all drugs to be legalized, and the military to be sold off)…
Time for someone to start the “Indepedents” party, I guess.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Obama seems to be you cons’ threat,
Absolutely. He is a very serious and clear threat. Hence the protest. Were he acting in a manner consistent with what we want, we would raise a beer to him.
The taxes raised where under Bush and Obama has not raised taxes.
Cig tax? Not a tax? Nah, nothin to see here, just keep movin.
Give him a chance to get things started, why don’t you, lol?
Ahh sNoBalls….No. lol
6 months before expected, his policies are starting to seem to take effect.
Except, lol, he hasn’t yet, lol, spent a dime, lol. The economy is improving in spite of him, lol, not because of him silly silly sNoBalls.
Robert Blair Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 1:33 am
Quit smoking and help reduce health care costs…now, there is a whopper of a tax…caring for the tobacco poisoned populace…
Our president has cut taxes…so, go ahead and whine…whine away…pay more for sin…that isn’t a tax, that is great.
Cap and trade? Don’t believe the propoganda about how much it will increase your utility bills…it might cost (for a family) up to…not more than…but, up to 300 a year…not the 3100 the radical right is spewing out of it’s lying self…
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 2:02 am
ROBERT,
I’m afraid that you’ve fallen into the pool of talking points yourself, my friend.
Let me throw some numbers your way:
Obama’s estimated energy tax would add $646B to energy costs over the next 8 years. However, Obama’s own economic team has gone on record as saying that number is grossly underestimated.
Jay Furman, the Deputy Director of Obama’s National Economic Council says the number is really closer to 3 times that number…or closer to $2T.
Even if we keep the original $646B over the next 8 years…that’s still an average energy cost increase of about $1800/year per family.
Taking into account Obama’s tax cuts: $800 per family, per year…the average home is still going to pay $1000 per year out of pocket as a result of the proposed energy tax as a result of “cap and trade”.
HOPEFULLY, this cap and trade thing doesn’t manifest itself into reality…while I’m all for leveling the playing field for “green” energy, I certainly do not agree that raising taxes on other, non-renewable resources is the answer.
Making renewable energy sources available to everyone, everywhere in the US would vastly improve market competition.
Robert Blair Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 2:26 am
Jared,
Thanks for pointing those items out. *sigh* time for me to hit the books on this one….but, hey…it’s a good point to research.
Thanks.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Faux News in general. The network needs to change their foremat or looked upon as extreme right wing news.
Faux News may be the most center of all the news stations. Just because it is right of MSNBC doesn’t make it far right, it just makes it right of far left.
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
I nearly choked on the bottom paragarph. The most center would be CNN. FAUX NEWS is the most extreme network on the air with daily extreme rantings from Hannity,Beck,Billo and other from the morning show all the way up to 11pm till the shows repeat themselves.
Yes,MSNBC is left leaning,but they bring plenty of conservatives on their shows except for countdown.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Pino: “Absolutely. He is a very serious and clear threat. Hence the protest. Were he acting in a manner consistent with what we want, we would raise a beer to him.”
He’s acting perfectly fine in my view. What a success that pirate situation was, hu.
—–
Pino: “Cig tax? Not a tax? Nah, nothin to see here, just keep movin.”
Smoking kills, Pino. I’m glad about this particular tax. I really am not buying too much cigs any more. You know, just trying to save those $1800 dollars a year.
—–
Pino: “Ahh sNoBalls….No. lol”
Eheheheheh.
——
Pino: “Except, lol, he hasn’t yet, lol, spent a dime, lol. The economy is improving in spite of him, lol, not because of him silly silly sNoBalls.”
LOL. You only hurt yourself with your own lies, Pino man. Aren’t you guys supposed to be protesting the ‘excessive spending’ in your ‘tea-bagging’ parties?
April 14th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
bad mr. frosty,
I love my country, in good times or bad. That is why I am fighting for it. Sorry that makes me look bad in your eyes. Sorry about what that says about you.
OldLefty Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Nobody thinks that fighting for your country makes you look bad in their eyes.
It’s very clear that is nowhere near what bad mr. frosty said.
The problem is that the same standards didn’t seem to apply when people fought for their country against the last government.
average james Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Exactly lefty.
April 14th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Say what you will, but me and my Democrat friends are going to respectfully protest at the Taxed Enough Already Party! yeay!
April 14th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
“”Faux News may be the most center of all the news stations….”
What a ludicrous statement.
Lol @ “fair and balanced”
Now be a good sheep and go watch Glen Beck…he’s got a guest that’s mad because the “end of days” and the “apocalypse” is indeed coming, but he’s afraid that there are too many Muslims, and they’re going to spoil the fun…
April 14th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
MSNBC is left leaning
Is like saying Attila the Hun was right leaning. Serious. Stop.
What a success that pirate situation was, hu.
Agreed. But riddle me this.
Obama used deadly force to save an American life. And is applauded by the left.
Why is it when we use non-deadly force, we are lambasted by the left?
I’m glad about this particular tax.
You understand that this is one of the most REGRESSIVE taxes on the poor, right?
Aren’t you guys supposed to be protesting the ‘excessive spending’ in your ‘tea-bagging’ parties?
Yes, only now have the republicans been acting like republicans. And that is sad.
Sorry about what that says about you.
Don’t worry about ol’ sNoBalls….he is Canuck.
are going to respectfully protest at the Taxed Enough Already Party!
We gladly will accept all dems who are tired of taxes at these protests!
April 14th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
I am not againist any1 protesting. It seems kind of strange when people are having a protest over their agenda passed by a GOP president.
I am guilty of blasting right wing radio,however Rush,Beck and others have to make their money and you can not make a buck going along with the president of the other party.
TV is different and FAUX NEWS is going along makes you wonder,are we watching the CARTOON NETWORK ?
As for GOP,who is leading the party ? What leadership ? I can,t hear u. Oh ! Another ghost crying muck. No ideals and crazy rantings. I want some sugar my tea with a touch of lemon.
latinchic Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
“It seems kind of strange when people are having a protest over their agenda passed by a GOP president.”
FYI, a lot of people are protesting both Bush & Obama’s economic decisions. That’s part of what is making the protests compelling.
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Mainly Obama and a extremly few on Bush. The policies of trickle down economics have led to failure from Reagan on up to Bush jr.
The only reason the GOP stayed in power was Reagan on foreign policy. Foreign policy is the GOP,s trump card till jr came along.
The leadership of the GOP help caused or economy to fail. They caused the great depression as well and have a great willingness to blame a democrat for their failures.
A free market needs some regulation and banking as well. Failure of the banks was a bill led by Phil Gramm in 1999 sign by Clinton. That bill reverse the regulations placed on the banks by FDR. Look at the banking system now.
FDR was making some leadway doing the depression till GOP lawmakers stopped some of program and prolong the depression. The GNP was stableize under FDR. Atleast his programs slowed the depression.
People have to realize,these big time bankers are filled with greed and CEO,s as well. They are not looking out for the poor. The middle class has decline ever since Reagan took office. Unions where busted up and so forth and alot of jobs contracted out.
Conservatives want to blast he democrats over illegals,but Reagan open the borders. It was slowed under Clinton and that was the last time we had a surplus as well.
Bush took office,no surplus. He allowed Wall St to get drunk. No WMD,s and lies and the economy tanked.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 9:58 am
it’s interesting to see your politics be so partisan going back to before you were born…the GOP and Dems are mere shadows of the parties they once were…you are worshipping a name and a name only.
April 14th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Just out of curiosity (and I bet I know the answer)…How many of you libs are sending in extra tax dollars to pay for all these programs you want to impose on the rest of us? Or are you waiting to be nominated to a cabinet position before you pay your taxes?
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Just out of curiosity,would you enjoy standing in a soup line ?
Are you in love with CEO,s and big banking boards getting fat off the poor ?
How much enjoyment you have with the decline of middle class ever since Reagan was in office ?
Out of curiosity(and I bet I know the answer)…How many of you cons disliked Clinton gaining a surplus for our nation and Bush destroy it ?
John G. Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Take that as a no.
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
yep ! but what is your answer ?
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 10:00 am
just to point out…we’ll probably never have soup lines like they did during the depression, our organization is completely different. What you will see is a line of people in the supermarket, everyone using EBT cards.
OldLefty Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
I guess as many as “you cons” who sent in to pay for Bush’s wars and the billions he gave away to his cronies.
John G. Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Ok, another no.
OldLefty Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Take it however you need to….but is ther a yes or no question?
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
KOOL ! Hahehahee my conservatived brother. Oh! You enjoy no for the party of NO.
April 14th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
You don’t like those programs !!
Tough luck, you lost!
Wait for the next 4-years.
See if you can win with Rush as your leader.
April 14th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
When will someone who whines about ’spending’ actually provide a reasoned explanation of why the spending is ‘too much’ and what would have been the appropriate action. It’s really boring to see the same monotonous claims about the spending with no supporting justification whatsoever that the alternatives are better.
I’m even willing to debate the size of budget and stimulus bills but the lack of understanding on why TARP and the bailouts was necessary is frustrating.
Don’t you guys understand that if big institutions that underpin our economy are allowed to fail, this is how you create a depression or prolonged recession. There is a reason why most of the industrialized world has taken similar steps.
We’ve learned from history that not only in the GD but in other major recessions that are caused by financial institutions, that recapitalization and quick/decisive government intervention is essential to avoid an unwanted and unnecessary protracted downturn.
Government spending is a good thing in a recession. Get it? Got it? Good!
John G. Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Any spending that results in a deficit is too much spending. Your kids will thank you for it.
What this recession needs is supply side spending, not demand side spending. Get it? got it? good!
OldLefty Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
It seems YOU need to get it.
Because the supply side worked SO well for us!
Kregg Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Hey Lefty, I responded to your angel hair comment…
steve Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
I guess you enjoy standing in a soup line ?
Lee Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
John,
Firstly, TARP/Bailout’s are not about ‘demand-side spending’ thats the stimulus/budget. So you either don’t understand the concept of ‘recapitalization’ or chose to ignore it in order to get out another unjustified, unsupported right-wing soundbite.
Secondly, if you want to discuss the stimulus/budget, well there are tax-cuts there so it isn’t a strictly demand-side solution anyway. Besides, whether a deficit occurs due to excessive tax-cuts or whether its due to public spending, is irrelevant so that part of your statement is utter nonsense as well.
Stop following the pack and regurgitating this fearmongering crud that ‘our children/grandchildren will be paying for this’. Once you can tell me what the bill for our children/grandchildren would have been if we lost huge revenues due to a depression, then we can talk about it and make a reasonable comparison..
Seriously, does anyone on the right actually have more to their arguments on the bailouts/level of spending other than some pseudo religious conviction that its not the best solution?
You know like actually being able to suggest the cost/effect of an alternative proposal?
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
LEE,
The US would NEVER enter into another depression…that, my friend, is what you would classify as “fearmongering”. There are too many stop-gaps in place in our current economic model that would certainly prevent another depression.
Lee Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 2:15 am
Jared,
I’m sure you’re wrong.. It’s quite simple, if the global financial system collapsed, then we’d go into a depression. All the ’stop-gaps’ you referred to were placed to stop that happening but there were really two main problems there :
1) Glass-Steagal (the main stopgap) was repealed so financial institutions were able to become overleveraged. This was done because we’d forgotten a big lesson of the GD and arrogantly believed that we had control over economic cycles.
2) There is/was no regulation of the shadow banking system (CDO’s etc) which unfortunately had grown to be far bigger than the ‘regulated’ conventional banking system.
You should be very afraid of such a collapse, so if you want to claim I’m fearmongering, ok fine.
On the other hand, the debt by all this spending has been blown out of proportion (considering other debt we have or debts caused by wars) and I find it a little ironic that the right are claiming our children will ‘pay for it’ etc when the reality of much of the spending is for long-term projects designed to make it so that our children won’t be paying through the nose for energy and healthcare as well as inheriting a national infrastructure that is modern and not crumbling in disrepair..
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 2:35 am
LEE,
Agreed that deregulation had an unfortunate impact on our economic state. However, regulation wasn’t the only stop gap put in place at the end of the Great Depression:
Unemployment benefits
social security
Two of the big ones…
I’m not speaking of a global economic collapse…I’m thinking locally.
I guess I’m confused as to what you mean by “long term projects”. As far as I can tell, the federal government has yet to look much farther than a decade or so into the future to figure out what the potential impact of implemented policies would be once the stimulus money dries up.
If you look at the proposed effects of cap and trade, we’re looking at projected trillion dollar energy costs at the end of the next 8 years…per Obama’s Deputy Direct of the National Economic Board.
Lee Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 4:17 am
Jared,
Firstly, you actually hurt your argument by bringing up social security and unemployment benefits. Neither of these are ’stop-gaps’ for a depression but are instead social support mechanisms. I understand ‘depression’ in economics is a subjective term but it generally refers to excessive negative economic growth and excessive unemployment. Neither of these policies would help in these two categories although it would prevent destitution etc.
So in fact, although social security and unemployment benefits are great. In a period of widespread unemployment, the cost to the government would be a double whammy of loss of tax revenue plus increased welfare spending (and btw I never factored this in to the 2.5 trillion calculation I previously made on the costs of ‘doing nothing’).
Then we get to the ‘long term projects’. What I mean here are all the supposed ‘green jobs’, computerized healthcare records, incentives for alternative energy etc. Policies which encourage alternative energy will take a while to gain traction but will really pay off when oil prices rise again, which I believe is inevitable.
I think cap and trade is interesting. I don’t think it will actually get passed but it has worked very well for other resources such as Sulfur Dioxide emissions. I’m not a big proponent of cap and trade for carbon and if anything I’m kind of on the fence as being for it or against it. However, I can see a number of benefits and don’t think its as bad as the scenario painted by the opponents.
JaredfromTexas Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 4:31 am
LEE,
Good points all, on the social programs I identified.
I see the benefit of cap and trade with regard to energy is leveling the playing field between renewable and non-renewable energy sources…giving consumers more options. However, raising taxes on the energy that a vast majority of Americans use when you know the impact could possibly be up to 3X more than originally projected is stretching it a bit too far.
Lee Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 4:39 am
Jared,
Yes, I agree on the Cap and Trade. It does concern me that the costs to the end consumer and average household are too much to justify the benefits, so I am willing to concede there that its overall not a good policy to me.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 10:45 am
I see the benefit of cap and trade with regard to energy is leveling the playing field between renewable and non-renewable energy sources…
—
considering one of the cheapest forms of energy is a renewable resource….maybe we’re just looking in the wrong places.
Look to eastern washington for your energy mix solution. We have the lowest energy rates in the country, one of the more reliable systems and the only non-renewable source in the mix is the highly efficient and 100% containable waste of nuclear energy.
The other place we need to look is Diesel, today’s diesel is cleaner than than ever and diesel vehicles on average can easily get the same mileage as a Prius or any other hybrid (maybe they can work on a diesel hybrid)
Why isn’t diesel more prevalent???? because we’ve decided as a nation to soak the trucking industry for taxes and overtax diesel. Diesel is cheaper to make and can be delivered in the exact same method as gas but Diesel taxes average about 7-10 cents higher per gallon. Additionally 5 states including the all important California outlaw the sale of diesel vehicles, but these are pre low sulfur diesel laws that should be repealed, making it less attractive for even domestic carmakers to sell diesel models in the states. Ford has a diesel version of the Focus I believe that gets 60+ MPG. My dad has an old Diesel VW Passat that gets mid 40+ MPG and with a heavy dampened hood doesn’t even sound much louder than a gas car.
In Europe where Diesel is normal 24 of the top 25 most fuel efficient cars on the market are Diesel, the worst of which gets a paltry 62 MPG (the list I’m looking at is from a few years ago) on the list include cars from Ford, Toyota, VW and Audi (all have sizable sales in the US) only VW and Audi offer the euro diesels in the US, but on a limited basis, my dad was on a waiting list for over a year to get his new Passat.
another beneifit to diesel is that you can have good MPG and not have to have the typical slow start that hybrids are prone to (wussy start), as Diesel engines have better torque than gas and blow hybrids out of the water.
Diesel won’t be the ultimate solution, but if this country would convert to Diesel and choose smaller cars, we could cut our consumption by half (my guess) and eventually get a distribution system in place for natural gas, hydrogen, or pure electric cars, to wean ourselves entirely of petroleum based powered cars.
April 14th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
“” effort to attack Democrats who didn’t subscribe to their detailed energy plan of “drill, drill, drill.” “”
Heh heh.
And look how wrong these hothead conservatives were…rememeber “Who cares about nature and the environment when Americans are suffering at the pumps!?”
And Sean Hannity who kept banging on that the US has “10 times the oil resources of the Middle East”, if we could just drill here, drill now!
Only problem was, you don’t. Even Republican guests were embarrased at his nonsense!
Talk about a legacy to leave you grandchildren…look how foolish it all looks now.
Remember the mock outrage when congress went on vacation, as per usual, without authorizing “drill drill drill”?
Instead, the time has come to get off oil…
Sarah Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Had an interesting chat with a conservative in-law on this subject, who’s investing in some oil scheme here in the states (hope he had better luck than my grandfather in the ’40s, and my parents in the ’70s).
He crowed that America has at least 100 years’ worth of oil in this country, so it’s time to tap it now.
When I asked him what his great-grandchildren should do in 100 years, he said, “I won’t be around. Hopefully they’ll have come up with a solution by then.”
Nice.
April 14th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Kregg said,
Hey Lefty, I responded to your angel hair comment…
……………………………
I don’t know where, (I forget which topic)
April 14th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Quote of the day: “If you are planning simultaneous tea bagging all throughout the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey.” —David Shuster
April 14th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
They’re going to overreach. At some point, at some point people have got to realize none of this is possible. You can’t have people living in homes they don’t pay for. You can’t have people driving cars they don’t pay for. I mean, you can for a while. But after a while the people paying for it — screw this. We’re not putting up with it. And you’re going to see — you’re already starting to see evidence of these. All the tea parties that are starting to bubble up out there. Those are great. Fabulous. [Applause] And here’s the big question. Here’s the big question. And I ask this again in the context of my first address to the nation. [Laughter] You don’t know how I love saying that, how excited I am about this. Aside from the bastardization of the Constitution that the Obama plans are, that TARP is, it’s not constitutional. Aside from that, where is the evidence that the people offering all of this have ever succeeded in any similar plans before? There’s none. There is no evidence it works
This was how El Limbo started the INSANNITEA.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Boy, Alan had them crawling out from under the rocks tonight ! There is nobody dumber than someone who votes Republican who isn’t rich.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:21 am
Beyond the obvious nutcases responsible for the tea bagging that will happen tomorrow, I would suggest that the people responsible have no sense of modern terms….especially since they want to tea bag people……they have no idea…or, should I say, “clueless”.
Anyway, the party here in my town has been cancelled…….both people have to meet with their parole officers, so they can’t make it…bummer…had my camera all set, too….rats…
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I don’t think I’ve heard anyone actually involved call anything teabagging? or tea bag people…it’s all from people like Robert Blair
April 15th, 2009 at 1:26 am
You see what’s going on here? The liberals will protest anything they think is worthwhile for them, but let conservatives organize a protest and the libs are all up in arms over it. Why, how dare you conservatives organize a protest across the nation.
By the way Lefty and any other libs out there who think this is supposed to be a copy of the original tea party. Get your head out of your *** and use your brain a little. This has NOTHING to do with that. It is about the OUT OF CONTROL SPENDING of the Obama adm. and the Dems in Congress. It is about Obama’s plan to tax, tax, tax. It is about Obama passing on this HUGH OUTLANDISH SPENDING BILL onto our GRANDCHILDREN, AND GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN. They will have to pay for this with a hugh tax burden on them.
This is about taking our government back from those who want to socialize our government through high taxes and seizures of private non-financial businesses.
THIS NATIONAL TEA PARTY IS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR FREEDOM.
Lee Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Willy,
How much would it have cost if we spent nothing? If you have some numbers, please let me know, otherwise why do you keep propagating this stuff?
Then ‘tax,tax,tax’.. ok there will be a cigarette tax and the bush tax cuts will expire in about 18 months! (for those earning more than 250k). Unless you are also talking about the capn’n'trade proposal, how on earth does this amount to ‘tax,tax,tax’!?
Have you looked at this ‘hugh tax burden’ and compared it against our burden from defence spending, medicare, ss etc? Have you factored in the benefits to our children of not being reliant on oil and having much better energy efficiency etc?
Please.. Stop ranting.. Sit down and actually think things through instead of eating up the right-wing propaganda.
Otherwise, if you are protesting, please tell me what you are proposing the government should do exactly, versus what they ’should not’.
“THIS NATIONAL TEA PARTY IS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR FREEDOM.”
No, so far all I see is pointless ranting and a chance to have a bitter group whine that the Republicans lost the election. But please prove me wrong..
willy Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 9:20 am
The tobacco tax will hit those Obama and the dems claim to fight for the hardest. The poor. The cap and trade tax will hit everybody who uses any form of energy, especially electricity, gas, etc.
Obama’s national health care scheme will be a tax that starts out huge and will continue to grow year after year.
Obama’s tax increase on those who produce jobs will be a job killer when this country can least afford it.
If the government can do such a great job running a program then why is medicare, medicaid, social security, and the VA run so poorly and why do they not have any money?
With the massive deficit and debt our leaders have run up over the past 40 years, both Dem and Republicans, what make you think they can run our banks and our private business?
The federal government is incapable of running anything efficiently. They don’t know how. They are incompetent boobs when it comes to producing a profit, which is what business needs to remain a business.
Government only knows how to spend OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. And when they don’t have enough of MY and Your money they resort to RAISING OUR TAXES to continue their destructive habits.
Defense spending is the only spending our Constitution gives the federal government the right to. That is their primary responsibility. Not the billions of dollars they spend on all these social programs.
Lee Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Oh dear more myths here..
Medicare, Medicaid, social security and the VA are all ‘run’ very well. Unfortunately, a lot of those programs suffer from profit gouging private groups like insurance companies/drug companies and even healthcare providers. Did you know that the VA prescription drug scheme costs about 58% less than the medicare equivalent? Why? Because Medicare have to go through private middle-men whereas the VA negotiates directly with drug companies..
The tobacco tax hits tobacco users. Not ‘the poor’. It’s good for our economy and moreover good for public health.
The tax on ‘those who produce jobs’ is nonsense. We’re talking folks making over 250k and not for another 18 months time. I don’t buy that these taxes will cut jobs, thats a very weak conclusion to draw and .
Cap and trade. Yes, this could be expensive and I’m actually leaning against this. I don’t think it will get passed anyway. On the other hand it does have plusses.
Firstly, most businesses have already adjusted to business models based on higher fuel costs (due to recent oil spikes).
Secondly, the household impact would vary widely and would likely be temporary versus long-term.
Thirdly, it would be a great source of taxation as its effectively a consumption tax which generally doesn’t affect growth the same way direct taxes do.
“The federal government is incapable of running anything efficiently. ”
This is completely false and just typical propaganda.
“Defense spending is the only spending our Constitution gives the federal government the right to. ”
Willy, read it again. In particular Article I, section 8 and Article VI (for treaty obligations).
One thing you _are_ entitled to is freedom of speech. So if you want to rant, well good for you. It’s just a shame that you don’t seem interested in seeing the big picture, and like many just seem to want to vent bitterness at the government (and after just a few months in office!).
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
medicare, medicaid and Social Security area all projected to go bankrupt…if that is considered being run well than great job GM, great job Chrysler, and especially super great job to our friends at Lehman Brothers.
Lee Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Guido,
“medicare, medicaid and Social Security area all projected to go bankrupt…”
*sigh* this is more BS..
Social security is funded til at least 2040 or so, Medicare and Medicaid may need some work. The problem is that you get this crud from right-wing mouthpieces who give you a misleading interpretation of the facts.
Specifically on medicare/medicaid they’ll give the big 50 trillion dollars etc numbers and then ‘conclude’ that this can only be solved by higher taxes which we can’t afford blah blah blah.. So we must cut cut cut!
The reality is if we make medicaid/medicare more efficient by cutting out the private sector, we can easily quarter the costs. Then, when you look at the projections the right-wing fearmonger’s use for these claims, they normally exclude gdp growth which makes the relative costs much more bearable. Their real agenda here is to paint medicare/medicaid as an evil public spending program that ‘has’ to be cut. But it isn’t true.
The truth is an efficient UH system can be made that doesn’t increase spending as a proportion of gdp. Exhibit A: Sweden.
Sarah Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Actually, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are run quite well.
The problem, as AARP will attest, is waste, fraud and abuse, not to mention the numbers of baby-boomers who have historically funded the programs, but will now be taking away from the programs.
I think one of the things that got my goat, watching the RNC last summer, is the number of older people in the stands, protesting the welfare state and government hand-outs, while all along they and their family members enjoyed benefits like WPA, GI Bill, VA Administration, Social Sec., Medicare, Medicaid, Pell grants, etc.
And if they’re farmers or gov’t contract workers, they’ve been sucking from America’s teat all the more.
April 15th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Nobody is complaining about your having protests. Our problem is the that DC and Wall Street lobbyists who want all the welfare and “socialism” to go THEIR coffers, NOT the people or the small businesses, are organizing it from the top down and pretending that it comes from the bottom up.
Anybody who was NOT out there protesting the “outlandish” spending, and of the last 8 years ….has no credibility, now.
My belief is that the REAL motivation is the opposite of what many think it is.
There has been no better phrase for these “tea parties” than ‘pity parties for billionaires’.
Perhaps they should be called ,”Screw the people….. Tax Cuts for “ The Masters of the Universe of Wall Street” Parties.
As I have said before, I gotten up at 2:30 am to get to DC to protest, at least every year, so go forward, God bless…
I think that,
“THIS NATIONAL TEA PARTY IS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR BANKER”S PROFITS”.
But, as I have said before, I gotten up at 2:30 am to get to DC to protest, at least every year, so go forward, God bless…
willy Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 9:07 am
So IF what you say is true Lefty, then from your tone you don’t think the “wealthy” have the right to organize a protest?
I believe that there are going to be Hundreds of Thousands of honest middle income and lower income people at these who truly believe in what they are doing.
These tea parties are an honest and noble endeavor.
Hopefully the mainstream media will cover these and cover them honestly.
OldLefty Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 9:16 am
“So IF what you say is true Lefty, then from your tone you don’t think the “wealthy” have the right to organize a protest?”
……………………………………………
Of course they do. They usually because that’s why they pay lobbyists.
“These tea parties are an honest and noble endeavor.
Hopefully the mainstream media will cover these and cover them honestly”
……………………………………………
That’s what we always said about the hundreds of thousands who came to Washington for pro choice and anti war rallies.
willy Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 9:22 am
And I never once criticized those protests. I only put condemnation on those who create the violence at those rallies.
April 15th, 2009 at 8:56 am
“”The other place we need to look is Diesel, today’s diesel is cleaner than than ever and diesel vehicles on average can easily get the same mileage as a Prius or any other hybrid (maybe they can work on a diesel hybrid)”"
I like diesel cars as well. I lived and worked in Eurpope and the UK from 2000-07, and I regret that NA dis not go the way of Europe after the 70’s and introduce diesel engines for cars. ‘Petrol’ has been expensive since I was a kid over there, and so small cars are WAY more common…as are diesel engines..
Right now, about half (or more) of the cars and light vans and trucks in the EU are diesel. EVERY station has diesel. All I can think is that the US/Canada did not want to “re-tool” in the 70’s and add extra tanks in hte filling stations?
I don’t know.
But you’re right, todays diesel engines get better milage, spew less c02, and now spew less particulate (with the collect-and-burn systems) AND they last 5 times longer….?!
…Oops, have I just accidently discovered why the big three ignored diesel while all of Europe converted?
April 15th, 2009 at 11:41 am
LEE, your cleanin’ up on the economics there bud, well done! I couldn’t have said it better myself…
No, really, I couldn’t have. Like, John McCain, economics is not my forté…Although UNLIKE McCain, I do like science, history and geography…
But keep up the good work, although I amazed you came up with all that without smoking a big fatty first!
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
the craziest thing is that FORD makes some of these cars but refuse to sell them in the US for a variety of made up reasons…like having to retool factories for diesel engines…really, you can’t figure out how to do that?
but enough with that…we can only agree so much in one day, or else the earth might stop rotating.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
I hit the wrong reply button .
baD mR fRosTy Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
One of the saddest parts of leaving the UK to return to Canada, was leaving behind my beloved 2001 Diesel-powered Ford Transit Van.
Size-wise, a mix between Mini-van, and a full size cargo van, the Transit was the perfect size.
I was happy to see last year Ford announce its introduction to NA. That turned to sorrow when I saw that it would be a normal gas engine, they had made it “longer” (?!) Arghhh!
man, I could fit some cargo into that short and high van…thje cargo space extended over the cab like a mini motorhome….no-one knows how to make little cars and boats with BIG room like the Brits!
I could fit 2 surfboards, a 9 foot zodiac, a couple guitars and amps, 2 bunks (as well as work supplies, oh yeah) in that puppy!
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
The next car I buy will be a diesel, probably a VW Jetta or Passat like my dad’s I really like those cars…now if they could just come up with a door handle that dont’ break in the winter.
April 15th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Hmmm, I think you are right! It must be all those code words that keep popping up, like “CONSERVATIVE”, or the most heinous of all “FREE MARKET PRINCIPLES.” Obviously they must be ridiculed and stopped at all costs. In this enlightened age of Liberalism we must police hate speech that inflames the masses by giving them the false impression that playing by the rules, making good life choices and self reliance will lead to prosperity without the government. Let’s face it, tolerance of free speech can only be carried so far, after all expressing these views are tantamount to shouting “FIRE” in a crowded theater.
BTW, I missed you denunciation of Moveon.org George Soros(who only made $1.5 Billion by shorting the economy). Where is the outrage for this corporate pirate who rapes entire countries.
OldLefty Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
The problem is not “FREE MARKET PRINCIPLES.” it is that conservatives want the government to protect big corporations from free market princples.
Free market princples are only for the little people, corporate welfare is for the top 1%.
willy Reply:
April 16th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Whatever Lefty!!!
April 15th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Who is behind this?
morons that Simple
April 15th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I’m going to start a counter-protest. For all of us who are still optimistic about America’s future, and feel pretty relieved at the overall leadership indications from Obama so far, let’s all repair to our nearest wateringholes for some Long Island Iced Teas.
steve Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
I rather have a ice cold ,but party as well. Go USA !!!
April 15th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
I believe the same thing Southerngirl. This is about bashing President Obama, otherwise Sean Hannity would not be there!
April 15th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
This is all about fear and control
Has Chris Mathews said last night most of the Tax rates are the same as those under Reagan no protests then.
They complained about Gore in 2000 year they are doing he same thing in upstate NY and Saint Paul
What happened to respecting the vote of the majority?
Electoral and population no contest.
Danka
steve Reply:
April 16th, 2009 at 9:00 am
The protesters where againist Obama, most of them. Here in Lexington,Ky was againist state taxes on booze and smokes and a little on the president,but alot on Bershear.
willy Reply:
April 16th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Actually Steve, these anti-Obama signs are very mild considering the protest signs and language that was pointed at Pres. Bush the last seven years. But Obama is a grown up and he can take it.
steve Reply:
April 16th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Hahahehehe,mild ,i seen some bad 1,s on tv,but most where peaceful.
However,i am pointing out the extreme of both sides. The protesters where the same folks you seen at Palin rallies doing the election.
Their will be no happiness. They lost and they are still inflamed. In my opinion. If they keep on,they will hurt the party. Look what happen to the DNC in the 60,s and early 70,s.
I have no use for Code Pink and Sheehan We went to war on lies,but i said to myself,kick ass anyway. Like Bush stated. We will not cut and run. I was cutting,but not running. The folks that attacked us,where not in Iraq. Fight where the attackers are at.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Actually, the tax rates we have now are the same ones we had when Bush 1 left office(92).
Not that facts bother the rabid right.
April 15th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
They were the “I HOPE HE FAILS” dido heads who were protesting.
Any fair,reasonable, objective minded…..hold on, I just described what radical right wingers aren’t. It hasn’t been but 3 mos and…..from 5 trillion to 10 trillion in debt produced no critic’s from this group and yea during the largest debt increase in history.
Now it’s all the NEW guy’s fault in 85 days, right?
That’s typical same blame game crap.
It’s desperation time in republican land!!!!
willy Reply:
April 16th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Excuse me RMalta, but Bush had a $500,000,000,000 (Billion) deficit and he was excoriated for that.
Obama, in only three months has now a 1.5 TRILLION DOLLAR deficit and counting. Just for this year alone. His deficits will run a whopping 10 TRILLION DOLLARS over the next 10 years if he spends the money he wants on his other pet projects. The INTEREST ALONE ON THAT DEFICIT WILL BE $800,000,000,000 (Billion) a year.
The interest beats Bush’s 500 Billion dollar total deficit.
rmalta Reply:
April 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Willy,
so what was the national debt when Bush took office? 5 TRILLION
How much was it when he left office? Almost 10 Trillion.(WE ARE STILL COUNTING)
So it took all the president’s before Bush2 to accumulate what his administration did in 8 years.
He also was handed a surplus, not a deficit.
Frankly speaking this takes alot of credibility out of the republicans rhetoric in fiscal responsability possibly for many years to come.
A bigger question is, after throwing all that money around like is was confetti, what major infrostructure or social programs benefited the average American from this massive growth in debt and government over the last 8 years? All this happening while healthcare costs continued escalate and be the number one cause of bankrupcy in America.
Even bigger question, What did the American taxpayer get out of the first 5 trillion in debt (fill in the blanks) verses Bushes 5 trillion? (wars, bailouts and tax cuts for the few, not the many)
What went to the people? The average American,Not Comunist China, or the top ceo’s who’s annual earnings sky-rocketed while doubling as a the most hated welfare package since money was invented?
I think Americans want to finally get some use out of these escalating deficits for themselves. Modernized railways, electrical grids, less dependence on foregn oil, health care for citizens of the richest country in the world etc….some gain not just pain.
rmalta
April 16th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Looks like a few Skinheads in that crowd! Interesting they would carry a sign that dishonestly links Obama to Bin Laden (or sometime they say Muslim) while accusing Obama of lying. Who is leading these NUTS????
April 17th, 2009 at 1:41 am