Meet A Man Who Was Tortured In Bagram
May 25th, 2009, 11:07 AM EDT
Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, an ally of Taliban leader Mullah Omar and Afghanistan’s former ambassador to Pakistan, talks of being abused at Bagram in Afghanistan and Gitmo in Cuba.
“I didn’t see a worse situation in my life than Bagram,” recalled Zaeef. “They were beating me, they put me in the snow, in the cold, until I was unconscious.”
Zaeef says he is bitter about being abused at both Gitmo and at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, that it’a a stain on American history, and that those who tortured need to be brought to justice.
h/t Think Progress
Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef (D), Afghanistan, an ally of Taliban leader Mullah Omar… says he is bitter about being abused at both Gitmo and at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan…
K: Excuse me while I swoon…
EricG Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Excuse me while I puke on your shoes.
Kregg Reply:
May 26th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
The Eric said: Excuse me while I puke on your shoes.
K: Tourrettes acting up again, TE? ;-)
May 25th, 2009 at 11:27 am
So what.
EricG Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
I’ll be sure to say that next time a conservative gets arrested or accused of a crime.
Who cares about justice about truth or criminal responsiblity?
Everyone is guilty if they look or sound guilty. Right?
May 25th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
He is NOT a Saint, he deserved EVERYTHING he got. Taliban [LOL].
EricG Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
You deserve a good waterboarding and some time in communist Russia…
Might make you find some love for this country.
May 25th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
…and how many women has this guy beheaded for wearing shoes that make too much noise? We should care what he says because…?
May 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Too bad we ALWAYS supported Pakistan over democratic India and walked away from Afganistan after we armed every religious nut job and gave them a sense of bringing down a superpower in God’s name.
Kregg Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Lefty, is there ANY wrong in the world that you don’t figure the US is at fault for? ;-)
OldLefty Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
We DID support it.
I am not blaming the US, just Reagan’s policies, like you blame Clinton.
Kregg Reply:
May 26th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Lefty said: I am not blaming the US, just Reagan’s policies, like you blame Clinton.
K: Did Clinton ever HAVE a policy except for interns? ;-)
May 25th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
WOW like this guy doesn’t condone the heads of his enemy.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Personally I hope Cheney has his day in court however unlikely that may be. Once Cheney/Bush and/or Pelosi get to court the prosecutor is going to be faced with a huge problem. While we have all played free and loose with the term “torture” the prosecutor will have to live within the legal definition of that word.
Article 1 of the UN Conference Against Torture (S. Treaty Doc. No. 100-20, 1465 U.N.T.S. 85) defines torture as: “Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person …”
Since the treaty wasn’t self enacting after Ronald Reagan signed it the Senate further defined torture when they passed enabling legislation. The senate mandated in regards to the Article 1 definition: “United States understands that, in order to constitute torture, an act must be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering.”.
I will spare you the Vienna definition which came out of the Human Rights Convention which is basically more of the same.
While The Geneva Convention Treaty of 1949 makes several references to banning torture the document appears silent in terms of its definition other than a rather vague reference to “physical suffering” (Part II, Act. 32). And, at any rate, any definition of torture in the GCT might be found in court to be a moot point in view of subsequence definitions.
As any intelligent and open minded person, not bent on a witch hunt, can plainly see the problem for the prosecution would be to prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that waterboarding or other EITs which may have been employed raise to the standard of severe.
I humbly suggest that the real torture victims were not those few detainees subjected to waterboarding but rather the dozens of Americans who, on 11 September 2001 had to choose between jumping to their death from a tall burning building or suffocating to death in their office.
EricG Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
“I humbly suggest that the real torture victims were not those few detainees subjected to waterboarding but rather the dozens of Americans who, on 11 September 2001 had to choose between jumping to their death from a tall burning building or suffocating to death in their office.”
I humbly suggest that supprting torture out of fear from terrorist attack is a form of terrorism.
Those who subscribe to this logic are terrorists.
People who want to kill and maim at will and based on their emotional entanglements and personal hatred rather than logical response.
The cowardly and tragic events of 2001 give no excuse to abandon our laws and our national standards of prisoner treatment.
“As any intelligent and open minded person, not bent on a witch hunt, can plainly see the problem for the prosecution would be to prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that waterboarding or other EITs which may have been employed raise to the standard of severe.”
Not true. A courtroom could easily determine that waterboarding and all tactics outlined in the Torture Memos is clearly cruel and unusual punishment as banned by the US Constitution. This is not a ‘witch hunt.’ This is called a cry for justice and a return to ethical standards in our military detainee policy.
I am sorry but you need to listen to Judge Napolitano and other legal minds on this issue.
This kind of defense of immoral and illegal practices only amounts to supporting another 9/11 happening. The greatest recruitment tool of al Qaeda and the Taliban has been the EITs. No question on this between all educated and informed Americans. No question whatsoever.
May 25th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Those of you with the attitude:
Well, Zaeef does/condones things worse than the torture he went through, so tough nuggies
are un-American. America is not a country which tortures, that is NOT who she is.
Personally, I don’t accept his claims at face value, but I think they should be investigated, and if proven true – anyone who authorized or conducted this torture should be prosecuted (and here we are talking about other forms of torture than waterboarding, for those who do not accept that waterboarding is torture).
trees are people too Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
And what do you base this on?
We are a country who determines our morality on a collective/subjective basis, correct?
If the majority of us feel that we are justified in our actions, then no one who feels otherwise can raise any reasonable objection……..morality is subjective, is it not??
If morality is subjective, and therefore illusory, there can be no definitive refutation of the actions which that society engaged in, because morality itself does not actually exist, it is simply an idea.
Only if morality is objective, and that is to say that there are moral truths that exist independently outside ourselves, can you make the claim that we may have acted in an immoral fashion, or capacity……..
If morality is subjective then the terrorists who lop off heads are perfectly justified to do so, as they believe they are acting in a completely moral capacity, and the interrogators who question these terrorists are perfectly justified to practice the means to the ends in obtaining information that the deem of vital importance.
Without an objective moral standard, there can be no absolute moral standard, and an objective moral standard can only be given by an absolutely perfect and eternal, unchanging moral standard giver.
An objective moral standard transcends both space and time………
Um Cara Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
And what do you base this on?
U.S. law.
May 25th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Those poor men in Guantanamo.
It’s hard to imagine the level of suffering they must have experienced.
We are a despicable Nation.
We should all be deeply ashamed.
We should all get down on our knees and bow our heads in shame…….while the swords of this noble gentleman and his brothers cleave our skulls from our bodies…….
Um Cara Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I disagree. I think we will rise to the occasion and condemn and prosecute those who authorized these shameful acts (assuming he is speaking the truth, as previously mentioned this needs to be investigated and verified).
If America were they type of nation that believed in blind reciprocity instead of justice under constitutional constraints, I would agree with your above observations.
But I think you are wrong. That is not who we are.
TDro319 Reply:
May 26th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
“We should all get down on our knees and bow our heads in shame…….while the swords of this noble gentleman and his brothers cleave our skulls from our bodies…….”
Looks like we have another Vinnie P here.
May 25th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
“If the majority of us feel that we are justified in our actions, then no one who feels otherwise can raise any reasonable objection……..morality is subjective, is it not??”
If the majority of you think torture is just fine then you are the Taliban.
May 25th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Shut up and read:
“…our greatest success in [Iraq] was achieved without torture or abuse. My interrogation team found Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the former leader of Al Qaida in Iraq and murderer of tens of thousands. We did this using relationship-building approaches and non-coercive law enforcement techniques. These worked to great effect on the most hardened members of Al Qaida — spiritual leaders who had been behind the waves of suicide bombers and, hence, the sectarian violence that swept across Iraq. We convinced them to cooperate by applying our intellect. In essence, we worked smarter, not harsher.”
Matthew Alexander, former senior interrogator in Iraq
>>>huffingtonpost.com/matthew-alexander/whats-not-said-is-more-im_b_207151.html<<<
May 25th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Saddam Hussein was tortured/ waterboarded.
What happened to the WMD?
May 25th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Um Cara Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Welcome back Mr. Cara.
You are still wrong friend.
EricG Reply:
May 25th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Pino,
As I recall you’ve been on the wrong side of every single debate we’ve ever had on this website.
Kregg Reply:
May 26th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
The Eric said to Pino: As I recall you’ve been on the wrong side of every single debate we’ve ever had on this website.
K: Too bad for you, TE, that he keeps winning theose debates… ;-)
OldLefty Reply:
May 26th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
In YOUR opinion.
Um Cara Reply:
May 26th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
For the record…
Pino has won some, but not all the debates.
Pino is wrong on some, but not all the issues.
Um Cara is the only poster batting 100% on both winning all debates, and being on the Correct side of all issues.
You may all resume your discussions, now that the record has been set straight.
Kregg Reply:
May 26th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
;-)
May 25th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
As I recall you’ve been on the wrong side of every single debate we’ve ever had on this website.
We’ve, as in you and me, we’ve…..never debated. And I am mostly right.
But, with that siad….
I humbly suggest that supprting torture out of fear from terrorist attack is a form of terrorism.
No one on this board supports torture. Torture is bad bad bad.
May 25th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
“…an ally of Taliban leader Mullah Omar…”–Alan Colmes.
People who HATE America, the Taliban. He is an ally to the leader of the Taliban. Says he was tortured.
AND YOU BELIEVE HIM???!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!
Don’t surprise me coming from a liberal though.
TDro319 Reply:
May 29th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
“Says he was tortured. ”
The U.S. tortures, so he may be telling the truth
“AND YOU BELIEVE HIM???!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!”
And you believe Cheney??????? Outrageous!!!!
“Don’t surprise me coming from a liberal though.”
Believe it or not, many of us liberals live by the golden rules “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” and “Love your enemies”. Those are from a man named Jesus of Nazereth over 2000 years ago. I suppose you haven’t heard of such a man. He’s someone you’d consider a crazy liberal.
May 26th, 2009 at 8:33 am