GOP Whining About ABC’s Obama Health Care Coverage
The Republican National Committee is whining about ABC’s upcoming June 24 health care special from the White House East Room, “Prescription for America.” In a letter to ABC News chief David Westin, RNC Chief of Staff Ken McKay complains that they were denied the right to provide someone for the show.
Dear Mr. Westin:
As the national debate on health care reform intensifies, I am deeply concerned and disappointed with ABC’s astonishing decision to exclude opposing voices on this critical issue on June 24, 2009. Next Wednesday, ABC News will air a primetime health care reform “town hall” at the White House with President Barack Obama. In addition, according to an ABC News report, GOOD MORNING AMERICA, WORLD NEWS, NIGHTLINE and ABC’s web news “will all feature special programming on the president’s health care agenda.” This does not include the promotion, over the next 9 days, the president’s health care agenda will receive on ABC News programming…
ABC Senior VP Kerry Smith says the RNC is responding to “a number of false premises,” and wrote this in response to McKay’s letter:
ABC News prides itself on covering all sides of important issues and asking direct questions of all newsmakers — of all political persuasions — even when others have taken a more partisan approach and even in the face of criticism from extremes on both ends of the political spectrum. ABC News is looking for the most thoughtful and diverse voices on this issue. ABC News alone will select those who will be in the audience asking questions of the president. Like any programs we broadcast, ABC News will have complete editorial control. To suggest otherwise is quite unfair to both our journalists and our audience.
Without even knowing what Obama’s plan is, without knowing exactly who is on the show, conservatives have already decided that ABC is the plan’s cheerleader. Of course conservatives have their own health plan: Don’t get sick.
Well, okay, so you came through on the transparency post, but ya fell down on this one.
Plus, I scooped ya ;-)
EricG Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
No, they are both good posts. This is Republican BS that should dragged out into the light of day to see who the real partisans and media-spinsters are … but the other story is Obama BS and I agree with Alan big time on the need for transparency across the board.
Funny how you only want to give Alan his due when he says what you like…
June 16th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
The GOP has an entire network devoted to their cause. Why do they constantly gripe about this mythical “Liberal bias?”
David Henry Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
“Mythical Liberal Bias”?? Well, I guess if ONE network represents the conservative view its balanced. Even if every single other news network is slanted left (if not openly biased). FNC wins the ratings (by a lot) because people want to hear the full story, not just the ones the cause the “reporter” to get a thrill down his leg.
EricG Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
“FNC wins the ratings (by a lot) because people want to hear the full story”
No, FOX News gets high ratings because the less you read books and go to college the less you watch FOX News. It is a partisan, non-balanced and blank-slate logic network.
The ‘real’ story is the one you don’t want to hear that Fixed News didn’t run on the air.
The ‘American’ sitting at home loves to hear about gay-bashing or anti-choice BS or whatever. If someone loves their countr more than their politcal party they can’t stomach much of the bias and unpatriotic broadcasting coming from all FOX formats.
Kregg Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
The Eric said: No, FOX News gets high ratings because the less you read books and go to college the less you watch FOX News.
K; Well, there you go, then. Fox is for educated and literate people – sounds like a good group to be part of. So, what does that make CNN? For the uneducated and illiterate? Seems by your own estimation that that would be so…
Um Cara Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
FNC wins the ratings (by a lot) because people want to hear the full story, not just the ones the cause the “reporter” to get a thrill down his leg.
Fox gets high ratings for the same reason ‘Fear Factor’ was a top rated show. A large percentage of the American population likes watching people eat bugs and raw pig intestines, Fox is the newsish equivalent.
Kregg Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Um said: Fox gets high ratings for the same reason ‘Fear Factor’ was a top rated show. A large percentage of the American population likes watching people eat bugs and raw pig intestines, Fox is the newsish equivalent.
K: I’d rather watch a “people eating bugs and pig intestines’ kind of network than a network who admitted to airing false reporting for a period of years so they could keep a correspondent in Iraq. But, then, thats just me… ;-)
Um Cara Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
I’d rather watch a “people eating bugs and pig intestines’ kind of network
There ya go, in case anyone might have thought I was just making stuff up.
Proof positive that Fox News is the ‘Fear Factor’ of the newsish networks.
Kregg Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Um said: There ya go, in case anyone might have thought I was just making stuff up. Proof positive that Fox News is the ‘Fear Factor’ of the newsish networks.
K: Except that I don’t watch Fox news… ;-)
TDro319 Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
K: “than a network who admitted to airing false reporting for a period of years so they could keep a correspondent in Iraq.”
TD: Maybe the said network was threatened by the Bush administration to “report what we tell you to report – or else!”
EricG Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Okay, the ‘Fear Factor’ TV thing is rather simple. I think.
It’s called ‘tabloidism.’ It has many forms and most people can’t recognize it when it’s right in front of them.
No, I’m not talking about those little magazines at the grocery store or at 7-11. Those are print-tabloids. Tabloidism is how FOX News and MSNBC make their ratings. It’s basically ’sensational reporting / coverage.’ The O’Reilly Factor is nothing but tabloidism from word “go.” Bill’O has just extended his work from Inside Edition right into that show.
Generally speaking this what all cable news is. That’s why it’s so popular. It’s not the ‘Fear Factor’ element so much as just the way they cover the news.
And I don’t blame them. You gotta get the ratings somehow. I just wish they would be honest about it and call themselves ‘Tabloid Cable News’ instead of ‘Fair and Balanced.’ Same with MSNBC for that matter. ‘The Place for Tabloidism’ instead of ‘The Place for Politics.’
Just a thought…
OldLefty Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
The same guy, (he’s not a reporter) who said about Bush:
“We’re proud of our president. Americans love having a guy as president, a guy who has a little swagger, who’s physical.” [5/1/03]
“Sometimes it glimmers with this man, our
“I like him. Everybody sort of likes the president, except for the real whack-jobs, maybe on the left.” [11/28/05]
“A little bit of Lincoln there, I think,” referring to Bush finally admitting that telling Iraqi insurgents to “bring it on” in 2003 “sent the wrong signal to people.” [5/25/06]
“I thought in listening to the president, I was listening to one of the great neoconservative minds,”
“We were given a rare opportunity to hear the real philosophy of this administration with regard to the war in Iraq. A powerful rendition by the president of why we’re there. When he talked about the fact that we can support emerging democracies in the Middle East, and that’s the only way we can prevent future 9/11’s, you’re getting to the heart of why this administration is fighting that war in Iraq.”
“This president is ready to fight like a rock through the rest of his term,” Matthews proclaimed. “He made it clear that he’s going to fight as long as it takes to develop a democracy in Iraq. There’s not going to be any change come September.”
Chris Matthews on MSNBC called Bush a “hero” and boomed, “He won the war. He was an effective commander. Everybody recognizes that, I believe, except a few critics.” He added: “Women like a guy who’s president. Check it out. The women like this war. I think we like having a hero as our president. It’s simple.”
And of McCain:
From the April 15 broadcast of NBC-syndicated The Chris Matthew’s Show:
MITCHELL: I think that the maverick image is yesterday, but there is still — as Dan and the others have been saying — there’s still a place for him in this campaign. It’s not as the maverick. I don’t think he can campaign as the maverick when he’s embraced the Bush agenda and this unpopular war. But he still can try to reclaim that conservative base.
MATTHEWS: OK, let’s be unusually brutal on this show, although I think the guy deserves to be president in terms of all his service to the country, and here we are saying he’s yesterday’s news.
On the January 22 edition of MSNBC’s Hardball, host Chris Matthews asked commentator Mike Barnicle if asking Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) what she had “done to deserve” the presidency was a “tough [question] for her.” Barnicle replied: “I think it’s a tough question for not just her, for perhaps the entire field.” Despite claiming earlier in the show “to be completely open-minded,” Matthews responded: “Not so much for” Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), and Barnicle agreed: “OK, I’ll give you that.” Matthews added:
“He has deserved the presidency.
On the July 10, 2007,edition of Hardball, Matthews described having to report on problems in McCain’s campaign as the “worst part of my job.”
Any conservative on Fox who has gushed over a Democrat like that?
Kregg Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Lefty said: Any conservative on Fox who has gushed over a Democrat like that?
K: No. We’re smarter than that…
TDro319 Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
K: “No. We’re smarter than that…”
TD: Smarter? No. I’d say dumber for gushing over idiots like Bush and Cheney.
OldLefty Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Of course Fox would not gush over the opposition…
The job of Fox, in the words of Bush, is “to catapult the propaganda”.
June 16th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
“Of course conservatives have their own health plan: Don’t get sick.”
Alan, come on now. Emergency rooms are a microcosm of what’s going to happen if everyone gets free healthcare.
I’m a conservative and I think *ideally* free healthcare is a great idea. A Utopian idea. It’s not very workable. Costs will skyrocket. Waiting times will increase. Quality of care will decrease. Lots of bad stuff will happen.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Universal healthcare is one of those good intentions.
EricG Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
So you get to be the one togo tell little Suzy she has to die because you don’t want to have universal healthcare. Flap has to walk in the room and explain how it would be nice to treat like a human being and not a mere thing but it’s just too darn expensive so she has to die.
Your ‘good intentions’ against universal healthcare paint you as a heartless monster.
Give me a solution, an idea. Not a bunch of fabrications and right wing blather.
flap Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
EricG, your rantings paint you as an extremist.
I’m for universal healthcare. It’s just not economically feasible. I’m also for EVERYONE being rich. Is that economically feasible, EricG? Can everyone be rich?
How much time have you spent in a hospital? Do you realize how inefficient and expensive healthcare is ALREADY? Universal healthcare is just like socialism: good intentions, ultimately BAD result.
steve Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Very well said flap. However something has to be done with healthcare cost going up 7% a year. The free market system for healthcare is not working. I love to see something done. A non-insure person will sit around to the very end with a illness in the final stages that hits every1 in the pocket. Being insure that person would most likly get treatment well before the final stages and reduce cost.
EricG Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
“your rantings paint you as an extremist”
Radical, not extremist. To be an extremist you have to advocate some kind of action that must be done. “Gotta go stomp a neo-con today.” That’s extreme. Extremism is found on the right more than the left. Everyone jump up and go kill a ‘monkey’ seems to be what Savage is telling me. Go blackmail a liberal is what O’Reilly seems to be telling me.
Radicals have ideas and ways of expressing themselves that the majority of people, even those in agreement, wouldn’t use or phrase in that way. That’s me.
But I’m rather loved when you really look at it.
I’m that ONE GUY who people can point to as nto totally full of chit.
I’m not backing down because you called me a name. I’m not saying anyone is ‘evil,’ only misguided.
For the most part people are dying for someone to be real and straight up in politics.
I know people think it’s for real but most this right wing radio we hear from FOX to EIB are just feeding you the latest ‘flame-job’ on the other party. While I go there, I don’t care for that baloney overall.
It’s a matter of opinion.
If you arn’t getting that then that’s why you’re calling me an extremist. Because you’re not picking up on the fact that I’m not reallt dealing in facts nor is someone like Bill O’Reilly. It’s all conjucture. All opinion.
And you can’t be wrong about expressing your beliefs and opinions. There is no wrong answer.
—
Also I get a little silly and admittedly emotional sometimes in the politics game. I actually care about these issues so forgive me if I get a little heated and passionately chomping at the bit. That’s just my bad side getting over on me. The point is only to try to hear both sides, rather ALL sides, of an issue before you decide something I said was ‘extreme’ because often I’m only joking or using extreme examples. Someone else surely has the ‘tie-and-suit’ way of looking at the same issue.
jekinatl Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Why stop at little Suzie, why not Nikataku Mobali from Kenya? He should have free healthcare too. Why is it only for Americans? Are we better than the rest of the world? You MONSTER. Tax credits for healthcare, there you go. $5000/person a year, go get Healthcare or open an FSA.
flap Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
That’s a good point…shouldn’t every human being get good quality healthcare? I would say ideally, in a Utopia, YES. In the real world, unfortunately not.
Kregg Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
The Eric said: Flap has to walk in the room and explain how it would be nice to treat like a human being and not a mere thing but it’s just too darn expensive so she has to die.
K: TE,this is EXACTLY what will happen if we go to universal healthcare. Its already happening in Canada and Britain. Wake up, open your eyes – and THINK.
TDro319 Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
K: “TE,this is EXACTLY what will happen if we go to universal healthcare”
TD: Are you saying the U.S. isn’t smart enough to avoid the mistakes made by Canada and Britain? How un-American of you!
EricG Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Kregg, you’re the one you seriously needs to open his eyes.
Look at why people are resisting healthcare. Look real hard. Who benefits from keeping the system of insurance companies and drug companies sucking us dry and laughing at us from on high in their towers … versus a system where they have to compete with other, more AMERICAN programs.
You’re wrong. And you have no first hand experience with what you speak. If you knew anyone working in the healthcare industry and dealt with the bills coming down from when YOU got sick. Then you would renouce the Republican BS about healthcare.
“Wake up, open your eyes – and THINK.”
This is for you, not me. You have to be blind, dumb and daft to think leaving the healthcare system in the hands of these greedy corporations is anything but inhuman. I think you should review the US plan and weigh it against these Canadian and British plans you are talking about. We are not just copying their model and like TDro I think better of our country than to wish failure on it before it even tries something to help the people.
I honestly don’t get. If you are worried about cost, then that’s a fair point and I’d say I am worried about that too.
But to say that we are going to have more dead children and untreated conditions getting worse and worse because of a government plan coming to be is ignorant and downright silly. You must know that’s not true.
You have to think rationally about this and reject from your mind all drivel put there but Bill’O, Limbo, Shammity, etc. This is about getting more people insured. Children without healthcare is no joke and the bottom line is that people against universal healthcare are standign for children staying sick so a few corporations can keep their profits.
June 16th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Flap: watch Sicko.
Or better yet, go to France, or England, get sick, get free healthcare, and then see how you feel.
JFA Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Sky, my friend. I have been to both of the countries you mentioned and stayed for 2 months in England, only a few days in France though. But according to the people that live there and have to deal with government provided health, it ain’t good. In England those that can afford it now purchase private health insruance. yeah, go there yourself and just ask anybody.
EricG Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
You don’t make a very good argument against healthcare, JFA. If people had the option to take govt. plans and still get private plans then what exactly is the resistance? Why?
I don’t get it.
The only thing I can figure is the right wing lobbies and pundits are all bought up medical insurance agencies and spread this propaganda around to make sure that their monoply over people’s lives and bank accounts continues.
And while the line the pockets of their Republican counter-parts pushing nothing but sicknesss and ignorance.
But … what do I know?
Maybe Republicans and conservative just hate people who get sick.
JFA Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Eric, I have to admit that I personally do not make a good argument against government healthcare. ( but I do purchase my own insurance, why can’t you?) You win that one! But how many times have YOU been to England or France and actully ask the folks that do live under government healthcare how they fell about it?? I have to get a new passport because the pages on mine are all used up, it’s nor expried though!
Kregg Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
The Eric said: But … what do I know?
K: Little. At least on this subject. Eric, do you pay for your own medical insurance?
EricG Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Kregg – Nope, I am in school right now and couldn’t possibly pay for even the cheapest plan even when I was working full-time. That’s called reality, Kregg.
I’d like to maybe have some kind of basic coverage but there is no way to do it until I make WAY more money than I do now or did then.
“Little. At least on this subject.”
You do know you look a little silly trying to poitn me out as uncredible when I said it myself. What do I know? I’m not a healthcare professional nro are you (I assume) so we have to go off of other information than straight on the ground reporting of facts. That’s life.
Here is my question:
Does paying a bill make your brain suddenly work better?
I don’t doubt people managing their own plans instead of having a complete plan with their companies are better off at understanding this issue than I … but let’s get real.
My friends have thousands in dollars in medical bills coming in … they have letigate medical conditions and not an addequate plan to cover their illness.
I almost died from a lung infection three years ago. If not for my father’s plan picking me up at the last second I would still have medical bills chasing me and keeping me from going to college and hoipefully getting a degree.
So sometimes it takes someone NOT involved in the way you suggest to understand these things. I know for a fact that having a govt plan compeating with other plans would do us all good.
The only thing I’m worried about is that ultimately you can spend forever on healthcare. There is enough need to fill up the universe two times over and we couldn’t possibly take it all on. But this is a step in the right direction.
I want to hear the sound GOP Plan. I looked over what they put out yesterday and I don’t like it. Obama has the better plan, I think.
But I didn’t read the whole bill and the whole GOP Plan or anything.
—
JFA –
“but I do purchase my own insurance, why can’t you?”
I want you to pronouce this word real slow because I know conservatives forget words liek these all the time:
B-R-O-K-E
… or …
P-O-O-R
That’s why. Even when I made a good paycheck I spent ALL of it on rent. All of it. I guess I could move out of the area and escape this problem but this is my home and my community.
Rock and hard place…. where have I heard that before?
No, I’ve never been to France or England. Nor have I experienced firsthand their healthcare system. But I also think it’s rather funny how everyone conservative who usually hates him wants everyone to watch Michael Moore documentaries when they deal with the problem with healthcare.
Are we all going to watch “Bowling for Columbine” next? Right after “Sicko”?
That’s what I’d like to see.
So, basically I think better of America than you seem to. I think we can work out a better systen than we have now and a better system than the European model as well.
Lee Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
JFA,
Thats BS.. I’ve lived in the UK and France as well as the US and saying ‘it aint good’ is nonsense and definately not the common view.
Do people have gripes with the system? Sure.. but they always will.
The main drawbacks with a universal healthcare system come about due to the fact that unlike here everyone can actually access the system (and therefore does). So this is why non-essential procedures such as hip-replacements etc have higher waiting times.
As for seeing a family doctor etc, there is no difference to the US and in fact its a lot better as they do free housecalls even coming in the middle of the night. Years ago, I had gallstones which resulted in bouts of intense pain before I had the operation to remove them (in the UK). About 6 or 7 times the oncall family doctor would come out to my house in the middle of the night (within 30 minutes) and give me a pethidine/morphine injection to get me through it.
Here in our country, I’d have had to get someone to drive me to an ER, wait (probably having to go through stupid admins first) and then get treatment.
The UK or French system is not perfect and nor is it free. But it is many times more efficient and cost-effective than ours, allows a private option if you want it and having experienced all three, I would gladly take either the French or UK system over ours in a heartbeat (despite having complete insurance coverage here btw).
Btw, I spent nearly 20 years in the UK and 2 in France.. So I know the UK system a lot better than the French.
flap Reply:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
“watch Sicko”
Yeah, after I watch Triumph of the Will.
June 16th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Oh, no:
The Foxy news is whining about getting access.
Today El Cavuto begged for an interview.
Thanks God, the white house does not need
scrubing and cleaning like Sean Hannity did
just days before Bush left office.
Remember his last interview with Bush:
Q: this is where you make the big decisions.
oh we are walking by a niece portrait of
you, my lord-Mr.president!!
It went on and on just like that.
June 17th, 2009 at 12:23 am
The republikkkans have no position on health care reform because they don’t want anything reformed.
They got their federal health care package. They got their friends in the big drug corporations and the giant insurance corporations. What the heck do they need reform for? They got it made. Screw the peons.
June 17th, 2009 at 1:55 am
Oh okay now we’re arguing how bad the health care is in Europe.
Well here in America it already sucks and it couldn’t get any worse and I’d rather have a government program rationing the care than some insurance corporation telling me it’s my turn to die and then leaving me so bankrupt I can’t afford to pre-pay my own funeral!
YOU TRUST CORPORATIONS TO DO THE RIGHT THING? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINDS???
Daddio Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:30 am
I trust private enterprise about a thousands times more than the federal government who brought us the bankrupt medicare system, the bankrupt medicaid system, the bankrupt social security system, the bankrupt postal service, and the TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT!!!!
You bet your sweet bippy I trust the private sector on health care. At least there is no waiting for procedures or no government rationing board telling me that I can’t have a procedure done because it is to expensive. And there is no ONE TO TWO TRILLION DOLLAR TAX bill tied to the private sector health care system.
Rocky the Liberal Rottweiler Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
“You bet your sweet bippy I trust the private sector…”
Then clearly you have a financial interest in the industry, or you’re an idiot.
“At least there is no waiting for procedures…”
Dream on.
“At least there is no…government rationing board telling me that I can’t have a procedure done because it is to expensive.”
You obviously do not have a clue as to how today’s system of health care works. But I’ll give you a tip: health insurance corporations are in the business of denying coverage. That’s what they do. And you die as a result they don’t give a crap.
And, oh, by the way, don’t get old. Because when you get old you’ll find everything gets denied by insurance companies.
TDro319 Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Daddio:
I hope you never get sick. Because I’ll tell you exactly what’s gonna happen.
First of all, insurance companies are in the business to make money. They make that money by denying claims or refusing to cover healthcare costs.
Let’s say you get really sick. You find you need a very expensive operations. You find out later by your doctor that your insurance company (who you’ve had for years and have paid $25,000 into) is not covering your operation.
You have two choices. You either forget about having the operation and risk dying, or get the operation and put up your life savings and sell your house to pay for it, and move in with your kids (if you have any).
June 17th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Two things:
My friends in Denmark and the Netherlands are quite pleased with their healthcare. You can drag up horror stories all day long in any country anytime. Including the USA.
One thing I am puzzled about is that republicans are supposedly for “big business.” Why then would they be against universal healthcare when it would bring down costs to businesses? Healthcare is a very expensive fringe benefit.
Kregg Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
SGL said: One thing I am puzzled about is that republicans are supposedly for “big business.”
K: The source of your puzzlement comes from the truth that GOPers are NOT ‘for big business’ but for the free interchange of commerce between private individuals and organizations without government harassment or restriction or intervention.
TDro319 Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
K: “The source of your puzzlement comes from the truth that GOPers are NOT ‘for big business’”
TD: The truth is that lobbyists from the insurance companies issue BIG payouts to the congresspeople to vote agains socialized healthcare.
June 17th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Here’s something to whine about.
Congress will not be on… or have… the New Health Insurance plan they are proposing for the rest of the country.
Why would you think that would be? Is the plan Congress has better? Hmmmm?
TDro319 Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
“Is the plan Congress has better?”
Of course it is. They have their healthcare coverage (thanks to the taxpayers), so screw their constituents.
June 17th, 2009 at 11:51 am
The Republican Party are a bunch of greedy people who are told what to support by the lobbyiest especially the corporate health care lobbyest like the American Medical Association. They only care about maximizing their profits not maximizing America’s health. The fact is that the report released by the commonwealth foundation clearly states that the US is behind all the advanced economies in terms of health care expenditure and quality. This organization does not advacate for universal health care either, so that has to tell you something. Please look up the commonweath report for more details. The VA health care system is better run than private health insurance companies. The Republicans would not dare to put the VA care in private hands, because they know
how angry the veteran who for this country
with blood to give this country freedom would be.
The other fact is that the US Gov’t does not keep Data on wait times in the US health system like Canada and the UK do. they think that having state to state competition will help reduce health care cost. Do you think somebody from NY has to do a research assignment to find the cheapest health care provider and all the way in California, when it will only reduce the cost by a small percentage. The republican Party can’t even
come up with an alternative. They said they will soon. They are waiting for their leader the Health lobbyest to give them more propaganda ,which will not reduce the cost. I know what will: First they have to reduce the price that pharm companies charge Americans for drugs and they can do it because they do it in every country. Second, they must create a public option that is a single payer that will give health to all Americans regardless of their preexisting conditions. thirdly, Americans pay based on their income,what they can offord to pay. A reasonable rate. It must be full coverage-everything that requires a human to survive on this world
They also talk about the gov’t chosing your doctors, but the reality is now the private business chooses your doctors,so they widen their wallets. With that plan you go to any doctor in any state. health care is a Universal Human Right.
June 17th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Fox news had their teabag promotion.
What are they complaining now about ABC?
At least, health care is far more important than
incitement.
June 17th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
It doesn’t take a crystal ball to predict Obamacare=Amtrak
pierre Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
I use Amtrak every single day.
And it’s a very fantastic mode of transportation.
Obamacare will also be fantastic.
bobfrommadison Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
If you believe your most private medical history is the business of government, then I can understand your POV.
I, on the other hand, would prefer that coverage be determined not on the current political fancy, but rather on actuarial fact.
And if you believe the government can both regulate insurance and compete with it simultaneously, you don’t understand the concept of “competition”.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:03 am
Amtrak is good for a very small and specialized slice of America, for which the govt. spends an unseemly amount of money on.
June 17th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Fox news had their teabag promotion.
What are they complaining now about ABC?
ABC could attend the tea party.
At least, health care is far more important than
incitement.
Tea Parties are meant to discuss taxes. How do you suppose that we are going to pay for this health care thingamado?
pierre Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
The same way you are going to pay for the war in
Iraq.
So which one is more important to pay first?
RDM Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Can we borrow some money from our French buds?
RDM Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
We’ll we are going to have to remember to pay our taxes; 12 million illegals are counting on us.
June 17th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
12 million illegals are counting on us.
That’s the rub, isn’t it?
the 47 million number keep gets thrown out there. But, I wonder how many of those 47 million are kids, now covered by SCHIP and how many are not even citizens of our country?
flap Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
That’s ANOTHER thing…do illegal immigrants deserve non-emergent medical treatment? In a Utopia, physicians wouldn’t discriminate because of that. But this is the age where the physical exam has almost gone by the wayside. We rely on oodles and oodles of expensive tests, imaging, bloodwork, etc.
I mean, shouldn’t we then take it a step further and provide healthcare to all of Mexico? Canada? Central America? South America? The World?
June 17th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Pino, There are around 47 million US citizens and up without health insurance and the number goes up everyday. These are American Citizens we are talking about not illegals.
steve Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Health insureance goes up 7% a year according to some studies. Insurance is becoming to expensive for most businesses and unaffordable for most workers.
The private sector is driving healthcare over the cliff. 1 bad illness can drive most familes into bankruptcy and the noninsure is costing us money as well.
The pharmaceutical companies are driving the cost up as well at the expensive of the comsumer. Yes having the government invest in healthcare will cost money,but the current system will cost us more money.
June 17th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
These are American Citizens we are talking about not illegals.
I don’t think that’s true. That number includes illegals. Further, it includes children. And children are now covered by SCHIP. Further, many of these people actually CHOOSE not to be insured. They determine that they are healthy and don’t need insurance. In short, they self insure. Last, a large portion of this number are eligible for insurance now, they simply don’t go out and apply for that aid.
Further, people move into and out of that listing all the time. For example, someone leaves school and then gets a job. For 90 days they may be uninsured.
Let us not forget, when you don’t have insurance but do have a cell phone or a Nintendo or satellite TV, claiming that you can’t afford insurance is a bit disingenuous.
steve Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Somewhat true,but not all 47 million and working with some illegals in my past,majority of them don,t take out insurance to have more bang for the buck from their paychecks.
I understand your conservative stance,but the current system is not working,it,s costing us more money. Being at the mercy of the drug companies is not working and you not have to work 3 jobs like you to have insurance as well.
It,s a right to have insurance. If the goverment can tax me,they can insure me as well.
placefield Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
“Let us not forget, when you don’t have insurance but do have a cell phone or a Nintendo or satellite TV, claiming that you can’t afford insurance is a bit disingenuous.”
Come on now, my health insurance for my family costs much more then a cell phone, nintendo and satellite TV. I don’t even want to think about how much it would cost if the company I work for didn’t subsidize it.
steve Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
placefield
Very well stated once more.
TDro319 Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
And let’s hope if you ever need healthcare, the insurance company doesn’t deny your claim.
June 17th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
the current system is not working,it,s costing us more money.
So fix whats broke. Buying insurance for people who don’t need it, want it or prioritize it is not fixing anything.
Being at the mercy of the drug companies
Then don’t buy the drugs. Seems as if they are providing a pretty desirable product, yes?
It,s a right to have insurance.
It’s not. You may want it to be, think it should be, but right now, it’s not. If you think it should be, you should get someone elected to write that into law.
Come on now, my health insurance for my family costs much more then a cell phone, nintendo and satellite TV.
Per month? Cell phone bills can run 60-70-80 or more a month. TV, better than a hundred. Nintendo, please, if you have one of those, then don’t tell me you can’t afford something.
I don’t even want to think about how much it would cost if the company I work for didn’t subsidize it.
But they do. Pretty cool of those evil corporations huh?
placefield Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
I am not claiming that there is not allot of Americans who have there priorities screwed up when it comes to what they do and don’t have money for. Just stating that if you couldn’t afford the health insurance anyway, why not spend the money on something else. If my job decided to stop subsidizing our health insurance (they have been reducing how much they kick in the last couple of years), I don’t think I would have enough money to cover it myself no mater what non-essentials I removed. And I make just a little bit to much to get insurance through Healthy Families (which may be getting cut all together here in California) for my kids. Basically I would be SOL.
michael Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Then don’t buy the drugs. Seems as if they are providing a pretty desirable product, yes?
That’s like telling people not to buy food.
sky Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
yeah, are you crazy? Should poor people just die, then. since they can’t afford the drugs?
Oh, wait a minute: they already do.
flap Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
“Should poor people just die, then. since they can’t afford the drugs?”
They do in many other countries. Why shouldn’t we provide healthcare to all human beings? Millions are dying in Africa…shouldn’t we ship them over here or ship people over there to provide care for fellow human beings? WHY NOT? Is it a matter of people not caring? Honestly? Of course not.
It’s not a matter of caring…it’s all economics and feasibility. Healthcare is a resource. We have a limited amount. We drain that resource faster if we nationalize it.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:11 am
most drugs are “recreational” and “lifestyle” drugs. there are very few drugs that actually do something that prevents death for more than a few years. And many drugs/prescriptions do nothing at all. (I can’t count how many times I’ve been prescribed anti-biotics for viral infections) Any time you are prescribed Motrin, you or your insurance company is being ripped off. Most painkillers are a waste of time under most circumstances.
I suppose you could make the argument that the money made on Viagra allows Pfizer to spend money developing more important drugs, but I don’t buy it.
TDro319 Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
“They do in many other countries. Why shouldn’t we provide healthcare to all human beings?”
Because we’re not responsible for the rest of the world. We’re responsible for our own citizens.
flap Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
“we’re not responsible for the rest of the world.”
You uncaring monster! Are you the type to shoot illegal immigrants just because they’re not citizens?
Seriously, you don’t think our socialized medicine care should apply to illegal immigrants that are living here?
June 17th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Just stating that if you couldn’t afford the health insurance anyway, why not spend the money on something else.
That is nonsense.
But anyway, back to the point. Given that insurance is too expensive why are we not looking to make it cheaper? Why is the ONLY answer proposed being “Steal my money to pay for people’s insurance who don’t value it enough to work for it themselves?”
placefield Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I belive the supporters of the single payer insurance do belive it will make it cheaper also. The problem republican have with this issue right now is all they are saying is that government health care is bad, but not giving any other solutions.
RDM Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Pino said:
Given that insurance is too expensive why are we not looking to make it cheaper?
That is a Great question!
When the government address the cost of Health Care they are talking about THEIR cost.With 72 million baby boomers turning 65 in two years the government is in a panic. They are already looking at reducing Medicare to lesson the governments cost. Don’t be fooled when the government says Health Care is too expensive, they mean it’s too expensive for them, not you. Also Congress will retain the same insurance plan they now have, not the one they are proposing for everyone else.
If the government can help make insurance payments cheaper, then ok. But not a New Government run Insurance Plan.
And why can’t we the taxpayers be entitled to the same Health Insurance our elected representatives in DC have?
OldLefty Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Given that insurance is too expensive why are we not looking to make it cheaper?
…………………….
So, do you want the government to tell the private insurance companies how much profit they can make?
“And why can’t we the taxpayers be entitled to the same Health Insurance our elected representatives in DC have?”
That’s exactly what Obama is saying:
Congress gets the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program
This program offers an assortment of health plans from which to choose, including fee-for-service, point-of-service, and health maintenance organizations (HMOs). In addition, Congress members can also insure their spouses and their dependents.
Not only does Congress get to choose from a wide range of plans, but there’s no waiting period. Unlike many Americans who must struggle against precondition clauses or are even denied coverage because of those preconditions, Senators and Representatives are covered no matter what – effective immediately.
But the best part is that the government pays up to 75 percent of the premium. That government, of course, is funded by taxpayers, the same taxpayers who often cannot afford health care themselves.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:15 am
I’d like insurance to get so expensive that the people stop buying it and insurance companies go out of business, thereby forcing medical companies and pharmaceuticals to charge a reasonable price for their goods and services, thereby allowing it to be affordable, and then insurance companies could reenter the game with affordable plans.
I know it sounds harsh, but sometimes the system needs to be blown up.
RDM Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Lefty, HUH? What? That’s exactly what Obama is saying?
I don’t believe that for one minute. The economy has gone from bad to worse. Biden is traveling around saying “Everyone Guessed Wrong”.
The must have immediately… $timulu$, appears not to be working very well.
Ooops, sorry about that.
You will argue that Bush policies had us heading towards a cliff. I won’t deny that. But I will say; Obama has stepped on the accelerator!
In Obama Land it’s — just words. Nothing more.
Health Care is a major concern for all of us. I know one thing. I can spend my money better than the government can spend my money!
OldLefty Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
RDM said,
“Biden is traveling around saying “Everyone Guessed Wrong”.
………………………
What Bidin said specifically was,
“At the time our forecast seemed reasonable. Now, looking back, it was clearly too optimistic,” he told reporters last Monday.
The vice president said losses each month have dropped, although the economy is still losing jobs.
“Can I claim credit that all of that’s due to the recovery package? No. But it clearly has had an impact,” Biden said.
Biden said the estimates were based on standard economic models.
“Everyone guessed wrong at the time the estimate was made about what the state of the economy was at the moment this was passed,” Biden said.
I can’t even imagine how much worse it would be if McCain was there with more the same policies that got us into this mess.
Meanwhile,
The U.S. central bank said it took in $1.2 billion on interest in loans in its Term Auction Facility (TAF) and to troubled insurer AIG (AIG, Fortune 500). TAF, which the Fed began at the beginning of the recession in December 2007, lends short-term money to banks in exchange for toxic assets as collateral.
The Fed also made $2.1 billion on its Commercial Paper Funding Facility, in which the government buys up companies’ short term debt in exchange for interest and a fee.
Treasury bonds, which performed well in the first three months of the year, made the Fed another $4.6 billion. The Fed began purchasing long-term Treasurys in March in an attempt to reduce bond yields and interest rates that are tied to them.
What if the problem that was 25 years in the making takes more than a few years to fix?
If you had tons of water damage, you have to stop the leaking first, dry out, THEN start repairs.
RDM Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Like I said:
“I can spend my money better than the government can spend my money”.
Good Luck
libpatriot Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
RDM: “And why can’t we the taxpayers be entitled to the same Health Insurance like the our elected representatives in DC have?”
Very good question, RDM! You should call them up and let them know THAT is precisely what you want!
RDM Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
libpatriot…
I have called and written both my U.S. Representative and Senator saying that what’s good enough for them should be good enough for the people.
So far I get a canned response of concern. Sort of, I would say, ” I feel your pain”. But that’s as far as I have gotton.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 3:02 am
I’ve written both of my senators. One of them gives canned responses, the other actually answered my e-mail, then I responded back and then she responded back to that one. I thought that was cool, even though I’m still going to vote against her.
June 17th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
I think it’s not accurate to assume that everyone who does not have insurance doesn’t work.
My husband took care of a guy whose factory closed several years ago.
He has always worked at two or three part time jobs, 60 hours a week, but there is no health care.
There are many people like that.
This is why Wal mart likes to hire part time people.
A few years ago WSJ featured a woman who is going blind, whose family owns a Newstand in NY. Everyone works 12 – 14 hours a day, but can not afford the care, (with her it was prexisting condition).
You are paying now for people who have to go to the ER for care.
One could also say, why should people who don’t work get to use roads that I pay for?
June 17th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
That’s like telling people not to buy food.
Point is, you are not “at the mercy” of these drug companies. Before they invented the drug, taking it wasn’t an option. Now, you have the same option, not taking it. To think that they “have you over a barrel” now, because they have invented something you want is insane.
He has always worked at two or three part time jobs, 60 hours a week, but there is no health care.
How old is he? Plans for individuals under 65 can start for as little as $170 a month.
This is why Wal mart likes to hire part time people.
It wouldn’t be that people want to work part time schedules?
A few years ago WSJ featured a woman who is going blind,
Very sad and tragic story. If you think that such stories won’t exist under Socialized Health care, you are fooling yourself.
You are paying now for people who have to go to the ER for care.
Why are they going to the ER?
One could also say, why should people who don’t work get to use roads that I pay for?
They do pay for the roads if they buy gas or license a car, take a cab or ride a bus. Who uses a road and doesn’t pay for it?
Lee Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Dear oh dear..
“Point is, you are not “at the mercy” of these drug companies. Before they invented the drug, taking it wasn’t an option. Now, you have the same option, not taking it.”
What a bizarre argument. Drugs are taken for one reason.. to improve your health. To basically imply that you have the ‘option’ of good health or bad health is absurd.
“How old is he? Plans for individuals under 65 can start for as little as $170 a month.”
Have you ever had one of these wonderful cheap ‘insurance’ policies? Unfortunately decent coverage costs a lot more than that and there is no shortcut to it. Those cheap policies are barely worth the paper they are printed on and won’t give you much except a very false sense of security.
“Very sad and tragic story. If you think that such stories won’t exist under Socialized Health care, you are fooling yourself.”
No.. you are the one kidding yourself and swallowing up the propaganda about ‘Socialized Healthcare’. The beauty of a system like UK/France etc is that people don’t have to fall between the ‘healthcare’ cracks.
There are certainly problems and things that could be better but you don’t get the complete abandonment of moral obligation to help your own citizens that we apply here when you don’t have enough money.
“Why are they going to the ER?”
Hopefully that was a rhetorical question.. But exorbitant ER costs is a real issue that doesn’t/wouldn’t exist with universal healthcare (one of the many problems it solves).
“Who uses a road and doesn’t pay for it?”
Lots of people actually don’t pay taxes. They don’t expect to be banned from using public roads as a result..
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:17 am
Drugs are taken for one reason.. to improve your health.
—
that is an insanely false statement.
June 17th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I belive the supporters of the single payer insurance do belive it will make it cheaper also.
It may “make it cheaper” in the same way that mailing a letter is “cheaper”. Never mind that USPS is broke and getting broker. Much like, say, well, every government entitlement program in existence.
The problem republican have with this issue right now is all they are saying is that government health care is bad, but not giving any other solutions.
I agree. Kinda like when the Republicans offered an alternative spending plan that was 1% less than Obama’s. Stoopid republicans.
Lee Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
No it makes it cheaper in a lot of ways..
1) Cut’s out profit for the insurance companies (who are the government in this case)
2) Reduces the bureaucracy in getting your healthcare and therefore associated costs
3) Drives down the fees/costs of the healthcare providers
4) Drives down the cost of drugs
5) Drives down the cost due to unnecessary ‘emergency’ ER visits which could have been handled at a clinic etc
Tort Reform is another item that would help (and one that usually conservatives agree with) but there is no doubt the facts and statistics confirm the above.
libpatriot Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Tort reform in favor of doctors would indeed be helpful for health care reform, Lee, and I’d be glad to reach across the ideological divide to clasp hands with conservatives on that goal!
Daddio Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Will we have a government rationing board like they have in Britian? Will the elderly be told that the cost of extending their lives a few years is to expensive? Will we have to go on a waiting list for procedures that we can now get right away? Is this program going to have a cost overrun above and beyond the CBO’s estimate of 1.6 TRILLION DOLLARS? How high is the tax burden going to be on every American taxpayer? How much of a burden will the taxes be on our children and grandchildren?
And when has ANY GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAM been more cost effective? Medicare? BROKE! Medicaid? BROKE!! Social Security? BROKE!! US Postal Service? BROKE!!
How about the United States Government? BROKE, BROKE, BROKE!!!
Lee Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 2:57 am
Daddio, you are living in a fantasy world if you don’t realize that profit-minded insurance companies are a hundred times worse than a ‘government rationing board’.
This is just more utterly despicable misleading fear-mongering from those against UH.
And then your next gem:
“Will the elderly be told that the cost of extending their lives a few years is to expensive”
Have you ever compared the lifespan of those with UH to those living in our system in the US.. There is no comparison.. those with UH have higher lifespans so if you are in to life extension then support universal healthcare..
And to debunk your other misleading soundbites..
Yes 1.6 Trillion to fix a system costing us trillions more. If you want to talk about tax burdens, a true UH system would be less than your current projected tax burden, so now will you support it? Even Switzerland which doesn’t have the single-payer model is cheaper than us due to government regulations in its UH model. If it had a government-only option then it would be cheaper still.
And then again the other classic right-wing spin and lies about medicare/medicaid. Yes, they are expensive, why? Because our politicians have to appease the business sector (insurance companies, drug companies etc) and so we have a bloated system that cannot possibly threaten the private sector. If you want to see how cutting out the private system helps drive costs down then look at the VA health system and the prescription drugs costs which are drastically cheaper than medicare/medicaid thanks to the right to negotiate directly with drug companies.
I get tired of hearing the same BS trotted out about the USPS. I mean comparing it to FEDEX or UPS is utterly moronic as FEDEX/UPS can cherry-pick (as a business should). If the USPS could pick and choose their customers and services then they too could be profitable.
But like most other government run services (including social security, IRS, NIH etc) they are remarkably effective at delivering their service reliably and effectively.
To be honest it’s sad that I see the same lazy soundbites (which are highly misleading) regurgitated over and over again without
any effort to do some real research to find the truth.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 3:07 am
could it be that people that live in UH countries have less access to Little Debbies and Jack in the Box?
correlating life spans with recently new placements in universal healthcare is just a tad disingenuous.
Lee Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 6:41 am
Guido, thats a retort that doesn’t make any sense. I’m afraid Europe and Canada have just as much access to foods high in sugar and saturated fats as we do..
The question of why they have healthier lifestyles is a good one though.. But clearly the fact that 100% of the population have regular access to healthcare (and healthcare advice) can only help here..
It is (after having done research), complicated though. For example, UH proponents like myself can argue that their preventative healthcare is much better. However, strangely not all the facts back up this claim.
The poster child here for opponents like yourself is something like prostate cancer where the 5 year ’survivability’ rate is significantly higher (and often cheerleaded by anti-uh folks)because it is generally detected and treated earlier. Part of the discrepancy here is that prostate cancer is a particular slow-growing cancer and many countries don’t aggressively detect/treat it early because it isn’t an efficient use of resources and can effectively be treated at later stages of onset.
When you compare survivability factoring this into account, there actually isn’t any real difference (using the UK as an example). So the treatment is just as good, its just that we are more aggressive in early detection here. Also, when you look at cancer ‘mortality rate’ versus ’survivability rate’ we are actually very poor which is why the survivability rate is always used by the anti-UH folks (and of course why ‘mortality rate’ is always used by folks like Michael Moore)..
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 8:00 am
perhaps access was the improper word. But you understood my point. People, due to several factors, generally have better health to begin with, consuming fewer snack foods and not having Jack in the Box probably helps in that regard.
We’re generally a lazy and over consumed society, and that brings high rates of Diabetes/Heart Disease/Cancers etc…
If you mandated that everyone exercise for 1/2 an hour a day and banned alcohol, sugar, and fats we’d cut our health care costs in 1/2 at least. (I don’t know how you enforce any of that…nor do I think it’s the governments business)
Some things that the government can do, stop subsidizing food stamps that allow people to buy candy, junk food, sugar drinks and fat/sugar laden semi-prepared foods and/or force at least 1/2 of all food stamp monies be used on fresh fruit and vegetables.
If someone wants/needs food stamps they probably aren’t working 20 hours a day and should have time to make rice and beans, and eat an apple.
instead an astonishing amount of food stamp money goes to hostess fruit pies, and coco-cola. these are not industries we need to subsidize with food monies.
Lee Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Guido,
While its true we have unhealthy lifestyles and particularly among the poor (those on foodstamps etc).. There’s really no difference to places like the UK. In fact.. instead of twinkies etc they have things like ‘pork pies’ which are cheap ‘cuts’ of meat encased in what is pretty much baked ‘lard’.
Nor do people on welfare there have to mandate what their money is spent on. But anyway, isn’t the conservative stance that government should ‘get out of the way’, however in this case you are actually advocating government ‘forcing’ people to eat certain foods?
But anyway bottom-line is that food stamps, twinkies and McDonalds aren’t the reason for the difference in our lifespans. At some point you have to accept that our current healthcare/insurance model just measures up poorly in that regard.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 20th, 2009 at 8:56 am
you’re straining at gnats to a degree. Yes there is unhealthy food the world over, but our population is much more obese and overconsumed than the rest of the world (and that includes me, I’m a fast food/junk food junkie)
Yes I’m generally conservative, but I also recognize that beggers don’t always have the right to choose.
much like I don’t think TARP recipient executives can’t have limited payscales,
however I object that they gave them the money…then are trying to force the caveat ex post facto, I would have been perfectly fine if they said. Here’s a 10 billion dollar loan, however your top executives can only be paid X amount, and did it all up front and in the open
I think the food stamp program is implemented completely wrong in most instances (I don’t know how every state runs it, but my state is implemented in a way that invites fraud and abuse) I think it should be implemented closer to the WIC program as I’ve seen it implemented, where they actually list on the check exactly what you can buy and how much. Perhaps with a bit more leeway than WIC, but same concept.
The point of Food stamps isn’t to make you feel normal, it’s to prevent you from starving to death, and if we’re going to pay it out, we might as well have them buy good food.
Also if you stack it up, McDonalds, though not the greatest choice, has much more healthy alternatives than Jack in the Box. but that point was mostly facetious and I used it to simply highlight our poor eating habits as they pertain to the health issue.
and I’ve never heard of these Pork Pies before, but I’m definitely interested.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 20th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Also I acknowledge that our current system is broken…but the answer is less involvement, not more…if we insist on staying involved perhaps step 1 is saying. Medicare will only pay $20 for a basic dr’s visit (not $150…hey I just saved the government 100 billion dollars)
Why do doctors charge $150? because that is the maximum amount Medicare will pay. Why is that the maximum amount???? who knows??? some beaurocrat set that amount in 1985, then tied it to inflation or some cockamamie scheme. ***all amounts and dates are made up because I’m too lazy to actually research it***
June 17th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
That’s like telling people not to buy food.
Let’s take food as an example.
Imagine, just for a second, if the government just got out of the way and let people profit from the sale of food. Further, if we didn’t regulate the buying of food to the point that we didn’t have choices as where to shop for it. I wonder what life would be like?
Oh, I know. It would resemble a GIGANTIC freakin warehouse FULL of food from around the world. And it would be cheap.
Can you imagine that our government allows people to profit from the sale of food? Sheesh!
Should poor people just die, then. since they can’t afford the drugs?
1. We should make drugs cheaper.
2. Poor people should work harder at not being poor.
Oh, in reference to #2, they do. Children of poor people often move up the economic ladder.
flap Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Actually, forcing drug companies patents’ to expire and allowing drugs to go generic DOES contribute to #1. I don’t see a problem with it, after a drug company has fully profited for a long period of time off their research.
Innovation would stop if the government regulates it too much. There would be NO incentive, and a lot of you whiners would develop diseases that could be treated more efficiently through drugs that would not be discovered/manufactured.
We can thank GREEDY, AVARICIOUS drug companies for some of the life-saving meds we have. God bless them. Let them profit.
steve Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
flap
I agree with somewhat as well regarding the drug companies . We have to medcine and research but to a dgree they are GREEDY . I regulation is fine but over regulation is bad. The cost has to be stablize however.
People not being insured drives up cost as well.
libpatriot Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Steve: “People not being insured drives up cost as well.”
Very true, Steve! When people are uninsured, they don’t usually get preventative care. Uninsured women are less likely to get a mammogram, and uninsured men are less likely to get a prostate exam, for instance. So, when uninsured folks are diagnosed with diseases, it’s at a later stage when treating it will cost MORE money and offer LESS hope.
When people don’t have insurance, they put off getting the care that they need until they end up in the hospital unnecessarily. Uninsured people who are sick still go to the doctor less, even people that can have diabetes, hypertension, or other serious illnesses. As a result, the rate of hospital stays for uninsured adults gets increasingly more expensive year by year. This isn’t only bad for the uninsured, it’s more expensive for the rest of us Americans, as it influences the continuing rise in health care costs.
Medical care costs more for the uninsured than the insured. This is so because major insurers negotiate big discounts with hospitals and doctors. (Uninsured people can’t do that; they have no leverage to do so.) The uninsured often have to cover big medical bills with credit cards, which can take a long time to pay off. Paying for health care is the second leading cause of personal bankruptcy. And when someone files for bankruptcy, those costs are socialized by getting passed on to us all.
For uninsured people, going to the doctor means going to the emergency room. This is the most expensive way to get health care, of course. And again, the expenses get socialized (or subsidized, if you will) by all who pay for their health insurance, as it stands in the present for-profit health care system in the U.S.A.
[Institute of Medicine, "Care Without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late", Committee on the Consequences of Uninsurance, Board of Health Care Services (Washington D.C.: National Acadamies Press, 2002), p.162; E. Warren, T. Sullivan, and M. Jacoby, "Medical Problems and Bankruptcy Filings", Norton's Bankruptcy Advisor (May 2002)]
June 17th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
So, do you want the government to tell the private insurance companies how much profit they can make?
Right, cause insurance companies are bringing in such huge profits. Almost 1/3 the margin Microsoft rakes in. Robber Barons!
But serious, no, I want them government to back away when free market solutions solve the trouble:
nypost.com/seven/03042009/news/regionalnews/state_slaps_dr__do_good_157907.htm
Or to let nurses perform procedures that have become common place. Or, to relegate the day to day duties from a professional requiring 12+ years prep time to someone who learned the “trade” from something more akin to a community school.
libpatriot Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Your last sentence here makes sense to me, Pino. I’m open to that being PART of the solution to fixing health care!
flap Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Libpatriot, do you know how many medical errors are made by people who DO have the intense training? Much like expansion teams have watered down Major League Baseball talent, expanding healthcare too much will water down the training and will result in many, many more errors.
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
June 20th, 2009 at 8:42 am
plus we already do that. go to a clinic more often than not you’ll be seen by a P-AC or Nurse Practicioner…I believe you can become one or the other with a simple 4 year degree (maybe it’s like a masters, 4+2) They are supervised by actual doctors, but are allowed to do a wide range of procedures pretty much on their own.
June 17th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Awesome:
libpatriot Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 8:48 am
A search for “CBO health care reform” got me to msnbc.com/id/31408291/ns/politics-capitol_hill/
and the following details:
1) “The budget office acknowledged that it was working from a draft of the Dodd-Kennedy bill.”
2) “”The $2 trillion in savings promised by health-care industry executives who flocked to the White House last week ‘are no doubt welcome,’ said CBO director Douglas Elmendorf.”
3) “…the savings from efficiency steps, like adopting the cost effective treatments from the best hospitals were not knowable in the short run.”
4) “Savings may be there eventually, but they may not show up in the 10-year budget window that the CBO uses to do its estimates.”
5) The estimates of $1 trillion cost to government and the $2 trillion recouped savings from private care industry participation are both spread out over a 10-year period.
Daddio Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 9:00 am
libpatriot,
I really don’t want to sound negative but I don’t take much stock in MSNBC. The CBO’s pricetag only takes into account part of the Kennedy plan.
And the 2 Trillion dollar savings announced was actually downplayed as not being accurate. The health care industry said that that figure is unattainable over ten years. In fact it cannot work.
One part that scares me is that many employer funded health care programs will end because of the tax burden that Obama wants to put on them. Employers will simply end their coverage for their employees. This will force millions of private citizens into the government health care system. Which is what I definately do not want.
steve Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Someting has to be done a several studies are showing that healthcare is going 7% a year.
With healthcare cost going up employers will drop their coverage. Uninsure people drive up cost as well and libatroit,s post was well stated.
I understand conservatives concerns about cost,but at the sametime lack the will to come up with a better answer,but the same answer as in NO and their regard to other issues as well.
Obama wants a private/goverment healthcare systemthat would every1 across the board in the long run.
June 17th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
With no disrespect to Alan Colmes. With no disrespect to the purpose of this Web site.
In response to the GOP feeling troubled about …
… Who gives a ****!?
June 18th, 2009 at 12:30 am
Uninsured women are less likely to get a mammogram, and uninsured men are less likely to get a prostate exam
Agreed. So here is a question:
Given that exams for each of those two conditions are very straight forward and understood, why are we forced to have said exam performed by a person that requires 12+ years of education/experience and brings along with them a fee commensurate with the costs of said 12 years?
How about ending the regulation that requires that and allow me to be examined by a 2nd year medical student or a nurse?
How much money do you suppose THAT would save?
But nah, let’s not think like someone in the business world would think, let’s think like a Democrat.
Regulate the job safety for doctors and then mandate insurance to cover what HAS to be high costs and then steal that money from the tax payers!
steve Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 10:29 am
PINO
National Colation On Health Care stated we are spending 17% of our Growth Nationl Product on healthcare and those for the GNP will go to 20% by 2017.
Increase spending on health care is two times the rate of inflation with a increase of 6.9% in 2008. Along with 46 million people not insured driving cost up as well. That we spend more money on insurance than any country in the world with less coverage.
Cost of health care has caused alot familes to go bankrupt and in the business sector as well. A private/goverment health care system sounds good to me and it will drive the cost down.
By 2017 our nation will be spending over 4.3 trillion with less people and business having coverage.
Yes the democrat ideals on health care will cost us money,but it the long run it will save us billions of dollars that can be used in other areas to keep the economy going.
June 18th, 2009 at 10:09 am
I really don’t want to sound negative but I don’t take much stock in MSNBC.
No chit; no one does. But unless you source your information from msnbc, cnn or abc, you are going to get blasted for using Neocon sites, or reblikkkan information or such nonsense as that. So, for the sake of peace, just source msnbc. Even though we know it really is just Obama news.com.
EricG Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
I don’t mean to sound negative but I don’t put much stock in FOX News. Seriously. I think the whole network groaned and mutual hate was quashed as they reported that Obama won the election. I think it’s a thin line that stops them from just not reporting anything except far right wing extremism like the Domestic Terrorism Hour (O’Reilly Factor).
But that’s just my opinion. I say cable news is not something to be taken too seriously. You tell that to people who sit down and make an altar to Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly when they come on the air. Some folks just love to eat BS. What can you do?
pino Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I don’t mean to sound negative
Hands down, THE funniest post of the day….
flap Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Ha ha.
JFA Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Eric, you wrote, “I want you to pronouce this word real slow because I know conservatives forget words liek these all the time:
B-R-O-K-E
… or …
P-O-O-R” (I have had personal experience with both)
Eric, I want you to pronounce thhis work real slow because I know liberals forget words like this all the time:
W-O-R-K. Yeah, I suppose to you and your lib friends it’s a dirty four letter work ending K. :)
libpatriot Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
“So, for the sake of peace, just source msnbc. Even though we know it really is Obama.com.”
Aw, Pino…! And here, up until now, I was for giving you a “pass” for using a New York Post website as a source for your comment above on June 17 @ 8:53 pm! Even though we all know the New York Post website really is Right-wing/slant.com.
pino Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I know, but the story ran awhile back and it took me a little bit to Google; I took the first one I found. As I posted it, I actually thought about getting the NY Times version…..
libpatriot Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Fair enough.
June 18th, 2009 at 10:18 am
3) “…the savings from efficiency steps, like adopting the cost effective treatments from the best hospitals were not knowable in the short run.”
Exactly. Cause if I was in a for profit business and I thought I could make more profit by looking at best practices from another business, it wouldn’t dawn on me to do that until Obama told me too. Jeez.
4) “Savings may be there eventually, but they may not show up in the 10-year budget window that the CBO uses to do its estimates.”
Excellent. So, there might be some savings, later. But, because no reasonable person is able to accurately even GUESS at what might happen in 10 years, and we are reasonable people, we are not going to include fairy tale numbers in our estimate.
steve Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 10:54 am
What about 1 in every 5 dollars going on health care ? What the cost going into the trillions on health care ? I reasonable conservative would cry at those numbers.
Saying NO is the favorite saying for repubs and conservatives. That you guys rather keep the status quo.
That same status will cost plenty of familes to become bankrupt due to high prices and less coverage in health care. Some businesses will drop coverage because the cost under the present system going up. Some companies may end up being bankrupt as well due to upscale cost of health care.
June 18th, 2009 at 10:22 am
So you get to be the one togo tell little Suzy she has to die because you don’t want to have universal healthcare.
Or, she can go here:
shrinershq.org/
And by the way, who gets to tell grandpa that Obama is denying his chemo because, well, he is too old and the survival rate is too low?
June 18th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Fox gets high ratings for the same reason ‘Fear Factor’ was a top rated show. A large percentage of the American population likes watching people eat bugs and raw pig intestines, Fox is the newsish equivalent.
Mr. Cara, you usually are reasonable. Have you been ignoring the data as well?
Southern Girl Lib Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Pino, have you actually watched Fox? I can’t believe my lying eyes?
steve Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 11:01 am
In the past year MSNBC has been the most watch accroding to MSNBC,but anyway FAUX NEWS and people that watch FAUX taht 87% of the viewers are robots that relish in lies and un-American garbage like little Rush Limpo,s.
June 18th, 2009 at 10:33 am
National Colation On Health Care stated we are spending 17% of our Growth Nationl Product on healthcare and those for the GNP will go to 20% by 2017.
Okay, we are spending too much on health care. Make it cheaper. Don’t steal my money to pay even more for health care.
I mean serious, listen to what you are saying man.
June 18th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Pino, have you actually watched Fox? I can’t believe my lying eyes?
Now and then. Now, understand that the commentators like Hannity, Beck and O’Reilly are one sided and biased towards conservatives and republicans. I get that. I’m talking about the news.
June 18th, 2009 at 10:48 am
What about 1 in every 5 dollars going on health care ? What the cost going into the trillions on health care ?
I agree with you, the cost is too high. The answer is to let the market handle it. Remove regulations that prevent NYC doctors from providing cheap health care. Remove regulations that require the most basic of exams be provided by MDs with hundreds of thousands of sunk costs.
There is no reason a 2 year nurse couldn’t identify and prescribe medicine for a child’s ear infection. But no, I have to see an MD and get charged $100.
We are offering solutions. Solutions to make the care cheaper. YOUR option is to keep regulations in place that force costs high and then steal my money by threat of imprisonment to pay for it.
steve Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 11:13 am
PINO
Deregulation is not the answer and i don,t want to see in jail. Hahehahe imprisonment of PINO. The goverment has been stealing your money from birth.
Private/goverment health care seems quite reasonable in driving down cost.
June 18th, 2009 at 11:00 am
In the past year MSNBC has been the most watch accroding to MSNBC
Not true. Foxnews has 2.5 the number of viewers as MSNBC.
In related news, I will be dating Jennifer Aniston according to me.
steve Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Besides,you will in jail for failure to pay your health care.
flap Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
“I will be dating Jennifer Aniston according to me.”
Nice, Pino. Kate Beckinsale and I are an item, I’d like to also report.
June 18th, 2009 at 11:13 am
No ! I will.
June 18th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Deregulation is not the answer
So you think we should continue the method whereby we require someone to go to undergrad for 4 years, then med school for 4 years, then residency for 4 more years, incur so much debt that they HAVE to charge exorbitant fees to diagnose an ear infection that any reasonable person could also diagnose with only a light scope?
Really?
Same argument for a TON of now straight forward procedures that could be done by nurses rather than doctors?
steve Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 11:30 am
In my eyes you want the status quo. Where drug companies drive up costs. Send new drugs on the market taht are not regulated or lack of it like the 1 drug you can used and it takes away your will to smell.
That is not counting all the other major law suits out for bad drugs on the market.
June 18th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Where drug companies drive up costs. Send new drugs on the market taht are not regulated or lack of it like the 1 drug you can used and it takes away your will to smell.
Reread my posts. In them, you will not see one reference to drug companies. I have been talking about doctors. If you would like to have a conversation about drug companies, we can put it on the list and have that conversation when we are done talking about doctors and nurses and the sniffles.
It’s like I am arguing with my ex-girlfriend.
June 18th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Caution; Foxnews alert:
craig7120 Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
LOL just dont post the score of Brazil n US soccer match I taped it. ty
pino Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
21-14
I’ll let you decide who won.
craig7120 Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
high scoring match wouldnt favor the US damn those brazilians.
pino Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
damn you um cara!
OldLefty Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
21-14 in SOCCER??!!
I thought you were talking about the Democrats v Republicans baseball game yesterday…
I assumed with a score like that , that they both cheated.
June 18th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Are you saying the U.S. isn’t smart enough to avoid the mistakes
Check out the DMV.
June 18th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
And let’s hope if you ever need healthcare, the insurance company doesn’t deny your claim.
How will that concept change under a US run plan?
June 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
The liberal press went ga ga over our ‘Flyswatter in Chief’.
A common everyday act of swatting a bug… What is so amazing about this? CNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC( soon to be OBC ), referred to our ‘Lord of the Flies’ as a Ninja with cat-like quickness.
PETA is not happy. They’re sending Obama a Katcha Bug Humane Bug Catcher.
Southern Girl Lib Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Claws out, back arched, hissing sound. Jealous?? Since I am a left leaning commie pinko feminist peace loving hippy, I thought it was comical and kinda cute. (My apologies to PETA)
(RIP Mr. Fly)
flap Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
“left leaning commie pinko feminist peace loving hippy”
SGL, you’re no commie. *rimshot* Thank you! :-P
Southern Girl Lib Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Like F*x News during the Bush years? The only people whining are the sore losers at Fixed.
June 18th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Even when I made a good paycheck I spent ALL of it on rent. All of it.
Then you weren’t making a good paycheck.
I guess I could move out of the area and escape this problem but this is my home and my community.
Ah-ha! There’s a thought. You could MOVE to where either the jobs were or where basic needs fit your income. Weird that.
Un-be-liev-a-ble
June 18th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
21-14 in SOCCER??!!
I thought you were talking about the Democrats v Republicans baseball game yesterday…
I assumed with a score like that , that they both cheated.
Here here! I’ll buy ya a beer tonight….course I’ll have to drink it for ya too.
Here is to humor on both sides.
OldLefty Reply:
June 18th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
You’re on.
June 18th, 2009 at 4:07 pm