Michael Jackson’s father told ABC’s Chris Connelly he believes his son was the victim of foul play.
“I just couldn’t believe what was happening to Michael,” he said.
“I do believe it was foul play,” Jackson added. “I do believe that. Yes.”
LA Police Chief William Bratton says if an autopsy shows that Michael was over-prescribed prescription drugs, his death could be treated as a homicide.
And who’s to say the Christian belief is right and everybody else is wrong?
A subset of Christians say it quite a bit.
Though most of THEM say their particular interpretation of Christianity is right and everybody else is wrong. So even being Christian isn’t enough for quite a few Christians.
Guiod, I’m not knocking religion. Personally I think that if all religions think theirs it the right one, it’s okay by me (I just don’t like these holy wars or Jihads).
I grew up in the Christian faith. They believe only those who believe in Jesus will be saved and everybody else is going to hell. I don’t buy that. Who’s to say that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, or even athiests for that matter are going to hell? A book? And who’s to say the Christian belief is right and everybody else is wrong?
The damage that Joe Jackson perpetrated on his own children was revealed by the trainwreck that was Michael’s life. Truly, he was mentally ill and died of it’s effects.
Michael’s purchase of “his” 3 children has been refunded to Joe Jackson and the rest of the Jackson cabal. What havoc will that visit on their (and our) world?
Foul play? Yes,a Jacksonian multi-generational effort.
alan said: Joe Jackson Believes Foul Play Killed His Son
K: Who IS this Foul Play, and why don’t they arrest him immediately?
TDRO…they should make that movie…sounds like an interesting premise…or is it already a movie and I just haven’t seen it?
and Um Cara…some of the bible was written during times of oppression… like Isiaih, he had to write cryptically in order to avoid being killed
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You and Michael were estranged for how long? I think you are looking for some handouts, that is my opinion.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:53 am
you’ve been hit by you’ve been struck by a smooth criminal
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
July 11th, 2009 at 2:01 am
annie are you ok…are you ok annie.
July 10th, 2009 at 11:19 am
never trust a guy over 50 with an earring
July 10th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
“I just couldn’t believe…”
And that summarizes everything that’s wrong with the people of this country, and, more generally, the whole of the human race.
flap Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
“everything that’s wrong with…the whole of the human race”
We’re just smart monkeys…you mean you’re expecting something profound or transcendent from sacks of sentient biomass from a planet that represents a mere cosmic hiccup in a godless universe with no beginning, no end, and no purpose?
(Sorry, channeling Dawkins.)
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Oh, they know there’s a God, Flap. 99.9% of the population will express a belief in a God or Gods, a transcendent “higher power”……………….
But they stop there; they don’t actually want to know God.
Why?
Because they love themselves, their own causes or objectives, and their individual sins which are many; they prefer to remain in a state of willful ignorance in regards to who He is.
People are idolaters by nature, and rather than accept who God is they choose instead to create a god for themselves.
A god of their own making, one who loves them just as they are and requires nothing from them, they deny any personal faults or failures on their part, usually saying something like, “this is how God made me, so if he doesn’t like it, it’s his own fault for making me, not mine”.
Human pride lead to the fall of the human race, and human pride is our continuing weakness, pride goes before the fall, and pride causes us to see ourselves as “good”, rather than as we truly are……..which is wretched…………..
We are all jealous, lying, thieving, murderous, adulterous and idol worshipers by nature. We seek to create our own kingdoms, blinded by our own ambitions, rather than seek the kingdom of God.
Oh, wait a minute…….that’s right I almost forgot………………….we’re nothing more than intelligent pond scum that somehow found a way to evolve ourselves into humanity and there really is no meaningful purpose for existence other than procreating and reproducing……….
We’re all just floating abstractly in an empty existence in an act of cosmic futility on a large space rock……….silly me……carry on………………
crh3e Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
“But they stop there; they don’t actually want to know God.”
“Why?”
“Because they love themselves, their own causes or objectives, and their individual sins which are many; they prefer to remain in a state of willful ignorance in regards to who He is.”
-Thanks for the sermon and the Pauline quotes. You must be God because you seem to have just about judged everybody on the planet. You know what’s in everyone’s heart and the exact reasons they “don’t want to get to know God.”
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
If I can understand you, then I must be you, following this “logic”.
I guess maybe your point is that God is unknowable?
Does that make any sense?
The problem lies not with God, but with ourselves.
Understanding what God says doesn’t equate to my being Him……
Now, what would be the purpose of Jesus, the Lamb of God, dying on a Roman cross??
If you’re not a Christian, then the cross means nothing………
But if you claim to be a Christian and deny the perfect blood sacrifice as a substitute for your blood, then you really are not a Christian.
If the punishment of sin is death, then all die, and that’s true enough
But if the promise of God is eternal life through the free gift and
sacrifice of His son, and if trusting this God to save is the act that leads to redemption, and if Jesus is resurrected to eternal life, then all who die will be resurrected to eternal life with Him also….
And this is what Christianity is.
To say that God will not judge the world in righteousness is to deny that there is anything wrong in the first place………..
Tell me, do all dogs go to heaven?
Should God punish those who have committed great crimes against humanity?
If God loves his creation and the people who He’s made then God is required to be a God of judgment, for if He doesn’t judge and punish the wicked for the acts of murder and rape and theft and deceit, then He doesn’t love.
Who among us has not lied, or desired the possessions of his brothers?
If salvation can be earned through the doing of good things, then God is obligated to provide it.
If God is obligated, or required, to provide salvation, then salvation can be demanded by the one who has earned it.
Who will stand before God and demand their salvation?
Who will stand before God and demand their forgiveness?
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Tell me, do all dogs go to heaven?
Why not? They didn’t eat any apples (though they like to eat cat turds, which somehow seems worse to me).
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Sorry, let me post the entire verse;
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
You know Um, when you throw a rock into pack of dogs usually the one who yelps is the one who got hit………….
I’m just sayin…………………
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Erm… huh?
TDro319 Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Let’s say all life form on earth ended today and everything was destroyed – except for a single copy of the Wizard of Oz.
Now let’s suppose in a million years, life form begins again. Let’s say somebody found that copy of the Wizard of Oz. Would they think it’s the word of God? Would the futuristic Trees be preaching the word of OZ and warning those who don’t believe will suffer forever in a fiery hell?
Just speculating.
blissfulconservative Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
THe Bible isn’t the only account of what is written in the Bible. Archaeological findings support what is written in the Bible. Or didn’t you know that TDRO?
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Look Bliss, and Tdro…
I think Trees said it best:
when you throw a rock into pack of dogs usually the one who yelps is the one who got hit
Now, don’t ask me what that means – but I’m sure it means you two shouldn’t fuss.
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
It means that men don’t like having their sin revealed to themselves.
Humankind likes to fancy itself as “good”, as in “I’m a “good” person”.
When you expose a human’s weakness it is like striking them with a rock.
If a human doesn’t see himself as he or she truly is, then they can never understand their need for forgiveness.
I think you understand the analogy.
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
I think you understand the analogy.
I understand what you just said – but no, I don’t see what it has to do with the dog that you hit with the rock being the one who yelps. (honestly, not being snarky here – it does seem like Christians, and the various men who wrote the bible, don’t like to just come out and say something – but would rather use very cryptic analogies – I suspect that is true of other religions as well)
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Alan’s spam filter has latched onto me, maybe I’ll be able to post after while.
crh3e Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
“Understanding what God says doesn’t equate to my being Him……”
-you’re right, my bad. But some of Paul’s quotes you have to be careful with using. After all he said judge those within, but have nothing to do with judging those without (the Church). Look at how someone like Jim Jones used that passage. Peace
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Oh, I agree.
It’s important to understand the bible as a complete book, and to beware of those who preach and desire to be the focus of worship or the focal point of God.
I also disagree with those who think that it is merely a book for understanding how we should live, it’s that all right, but if we see it only as a call to a works righteous salvation then we have missed the point in it’s entirety, and have never understood why we needed a Savior to begin with.
If Christ isn’t who He claimed to be, and if God doesn’t raise Him up from the dead, then all of our belief is useless and Christ died in vain.
I wish Peace and Godly blessings to you also, crh3e, your friend trees
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
July 11th, 2009 at 2:06 am
TDRO…they should make that movie…sounds like an interesting premise…or is it already a movie and I just haven’t seen it?
and Um Cara…some of the bible was written during times of oppression… like Isiaih, he had to write cryptically in order to avoid being killed
TDro319 Reply:
July 11th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Guiod, I’m not knocking religion. Personally I think that if all religions think theirs it the right one, it’s okay by me (I just don’t like these holy wars or Jihads).
I grew up in the Christian faith. They believe only those who believe in Jesus will be saved and everybody else is going to hell. I don’t buy that. Who’s to say that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, or even athiests for that matter are going to hell? A book? And who’s to say the Christian belief is right and everybody else is wrong?
Um Cara Reply:
July 11th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
And who’s to say the Christian belief is right and everybody else is wrong?
A subset of Christians say it quite a bit.
Though most of THEM say their particular interpretation of Christianity is right and everybody else is wrong. So even being Christian isn’t enough for quite a few Christians.
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Oh, they know there’s a God, Flap. 99.9% of the population will express a belief in a God or Gods, a transcendent “higher power”
Sounds a pretty high to me, where do you get 99.9%? I know America is way up there on the list of countries that believe in the supernatural, but there is no way it is that high. Or is it? Where did you get that number?
Heck, until a few months ago I didn’t realize there were adults who believed the Noah’s Ark story was literally true (boy was I wrong – baby hibernating dinosaurs on the ark w/ Noah. Wow.), so I’m definitely open to being proven wrong on the 99.9% thing.
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
How many profess to be pure atheists?
Not even Craig, professes this.
He claims to be an agnostic.
Agnostics don’t deny the existence of God, they just admit that they do not know Him……
And this is consistent with my statement that they (99.9%) acknowledge the existence or possibility that God exists………
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I googled it and found this:
It found that 92 percent of Americans believe in God or a universal spirit, with 71 percent of those surveyed saying they were “absolutely certain” on this score.
There were different surveys with different numbers, but I didn’t see any 99.9% number. The 92% was the highest I found. Even if there are people who believe baby hibernating dinosaurs were on the ark, there is no way 99.9% of Americans believe in the supernatural.
trees are people too Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Well, when dealing with that high of a percentile, 7.9% is rather indiscernible.
Wouldn’t you agree?
You trying to portray it as somehow inaccurate is a little silly.
And the fact is that those who were polled were asked the questions in a specific way, if I had conducted the poll I could have asked the questions in a way that would then reflect the higher percentile number…….
Remember, this 7.9% differential is all how the question is interpreted and replied to by the respondent.
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
8% is way, way, way more than .1%, 80 people in a room of 1000 vs. 1 person. I’d much rather go to a party with 8% of the chicks being hot, intelligent, available, and with low standards than .1% meeting the criteria.
You trying to portray it as somehow inaccurate is a little silly.
I was just curious – I thought maybe you had something to back it up. I would have been shocked to learn that in a room of 1000 people you would only find 1 who did not believe in the supernatural.
flap Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
“I would have been shocked to learn that in a room of 1000 people you would only find 1 who did not believe in the supernatural”
I bet close to 99% believe there’s something “greater” than us, even if it doesn’t involve a god or spirit.
Maybe I’m trying to say that probably only 1 out of 1000 believe in a very strictly scientific, godless world where there is nothing more to be known but the objectively observable. You think?
michael Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
I’d much rather go to a party with 8% of the chicks being hot, intelligent, available, and with low standards than .1% meeting the criteria
What a fantastic analogy :)
michael Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
flap,
You’re right that it is a small percentage, although I would say it’s probably more like 1 in 100 rather than 1 in 1000 that would say there is absolutely no God. Probably about 1 in 5 would say they have some sort of vague belief in a “higher being” or “something greater than ourselves” or consider themselves agnostics.
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I bet close to 99% believe there’s something “greater” than us, even if it doesn’t involve a god or spirit.
Sure, one would have to be pretty narcissistic to think that anything we humans manage to do is as amazing as mitosis, or a supernova, or any number of other super groovy non supernatural things.
Maybe I’m trying to say that probably only 1 out of 1000 believe in a very strictly scientific, godless world where there is nothing more to be known but the objectively observable. You think?
I would hope that no one believes only in what is objectively observable. I know some theoretical physicists who would be pretty irritated if that were the case.
Anyway, we were talking about the supernatural, not something ‘greater than ourselves’ or ‘only what is objectively observable’.
flap Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
“Anyway, we were talking about the supernatural, not something ‘greater than ourselves’ or ‘only what is objectively observable’.”
What’s your definition of supernatural? Wouldn’t “not objectively observable” qualify?
Wikipedia: supernatural pertains to an order of existence beyond the scientifically visible universe
All I was trying to say is that only a few people like Dawkins are probably so “steeped” in science that they would fail to, I guess, recognize that there are certain unexplainables that cannot be explained or understood with science and “transcend” scientific observation.
Um Cara Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
What’s your definition of supernatural? Wouldn’t “not objectively observable” qualify?
No – theoretical physics is not the supernatural, and it is not objectively observable. Examples of the supernatural: Ghosts, witchcraft, gods, demons, and whatnot. Stuff that doesn’t follow the Rules (of nature).
craig7120 Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
“All I was trying to say is that only a few people like Dawkins are probably so “steeped” in science that they would fail to, I guess, recognize that there are certain unexplainables that cannot be explained or understood with science and “transcend” scientific observation.”
Flap, Dawkins has not failed to recognize the supernatural. Read ‘The God Delusion’
craig7120 Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Trees,
Agnostics are fence sitters lol no really agnostics are just shrugging their shoulders, imo.
I live the atheistic life. No superhero’s, no masters, no begging. Some like it, others dont.
On the Dawkins scale im a 6 which Ive mentioned a few times.
July 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
OK, sure, why not? Is Foul Play a band he is promoting?
(2nd that Fluffenburger don’t trust any guy over 50 with an earing).
BUT ALAN! WHAT about Governor SANFORD and his falling in love with his wife again after saying goodbye for 5+ Argentinian dayze over father’s day with his SOULMATE?
Interested people want 2 know.
Is there some special Promisekeepers prayer we can be offering UP?
July 10th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
“We’re just smart monkeys…”
“Smart” is debatable.
And in any case it’s hardly a surprise that MJ’s father expresses suspicions. We give every minority group in this country every conceivable reason to suspect, even to presume, that the worst is always the truth.
blissfulconservative Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
What does being a minority have to do with a death via overdose? Last time I checked drugs don’t care about skin color.
Rocky the Liberal Rottweiler Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Well, if you could read, you’d realize I wasn’t posting about the actual, factual, yet-to-be-determined causes contributing to the death.
Go find someone to read the title of this thread for you, which might help clear up your failure to comprehend.
I’ll re-post it here for your convenience: “Joe Jackson Believes Foul Play Killed His Son.”
flap Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Well, yeah, Rocky, I’d say your status as a “smart” monkey is debatable.
*rimshot* Thank you!
(Just kidding, Rocky.)
Rocky the Liberal Rottweiler Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
“…your status as a “smart” monkey is debatable…”
Of course it is. Yours is too. And you don’t need a rimshot. That we are all arrogant morons with big mouths we love firing off without even pausing to think is fundamental to learning to understand anything.
Ultimately, even a smart monkey is pretty F-ing stupid. But too many people think they’re smarter than that.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Wow. How did a post about Joe Jackson thinking MJ’s death was foul play turn into an argument between an evangelical and an atheist? I guess that just proves the contention of Lewis Black, that Micheal Jackson has become the punch line to every joke. “An atheist and an evangelical Christian walk into a bar… Micheal Jackson!”
Rocky the Liberal Rottweiler Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Maybe you’re looking for an argument too?
Heh.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
If Jackson’s death turns out how it appears that it will turn out; pretty sure there are going to be some doctor’s sitting in jail for awhile. It’s looking quite obvious that he had a severe Rx drug problem and a person couldn’t get that bad without doctor’s willing to support/enable/encourage this behavior.
Tragic situation…..
Danielle Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
But in my opinion (and yes it’s just my opinion), Joe Jackson shouldn’t even have the balls to act like he cares what happened to his son. Well…I’m sure if he cares at all it will be what kind of money he can get out of this.
This man is a slimeball. All accounts portray him as a hateful, abusive, horrible man. Perhaps Joe Jackson should examine his own behavior as well when it comes to Michael’s life being as tortured as it was.
libpatriot Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Danielle, this is off-topic, but while you’re online, I wanted to respond to your curiousity about baD mR fRosTy not being on this site anymore. His final post (to date) was on May 11th, 2009 at 12:34 pm, and is found on the “Student at Christian school told he’ll be suspend[ed] if he goes to prom” posted by Alan on May 9:
alan.com/2009/05/09/student-at-christian-told-hell-be-suspend-if-he-goes-to-prom/#comments
Some of BMF’s replies on that post hint at why he decided to take a (permanent?) vacation from Liberaland, and you can draw your own conclusions from those final posts if you wish. I’ve heard Frosty (John Peer) has a website as well, but don’t know what the address is.
I miss the guy’s posts, even though he and I only spoke directly one time that I can recall; they were a fun read!
Danielle Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Oh thanks….I was really curious what happened to him. He was on all the time and although a bit over the top on some things, I did find a lot of his posts interesting!
libpatriot Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
No problem, Danielle, I found a lot of his posts interesting, though I feel the same way about a lot of people who post here presently. (I miss Sarah, though. And wish we could see more posts by Lily!)
flap Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Strangely enough, I miss Frosty as well…
libpatriot Reply:
July 10th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
My mistake, that should be:
alan.com/2009/05/09/student-at-christian-school-told-hell-be-suspend-if-he-goes-to-prom-/#comments
My apologies, Danielle, I omitted the word “school” from the address.
July 10th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Sorry, still on Joe Jackson. As much as I don’t want those three children with Debbie Rowe, I don’t like the idea of them being around Joe Jackson either.
Can’t believe he went on TV and was already talking about the children’s showbiz potential!
bobfrommadison Reply:
July 11th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
The damage that Joe Jackson perpetrated on his own children was revealed by the trainwreck that was Michael’s life. Truly, he was mentally ill and died of it’s effects.
Michael’s purchase of “his” 3 children has been refunded to Joe Jackson and the rest of the Jackson cabal. What havoc will that visit on their (and our) world?
Foul play? Yes,a Jacksonian multi-generational effort.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Danielle, you also posted about Joe Jackson’s balls, shocking:)
July 10th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
alan said: Joe Jackson Believes Foul Play Killed His Son
K: Who IS this Foul Play, and why don’t they arrest him immediately?
July 11th, 2009 at 10:12 am