On Tuesday’s Radio Show…
September 29th, 2009, 6:00 PM EDT
• Victoria Gotti sits down with Alan to discuss the fascinating revelations in her new book, This Family of Mine: What It Was Like Growing Up Gotti.
• Conservative activist Kitty Werthmann, who says that President Obama is taking America down the same path as Hitler, attempts to defend her claim.
• The author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism, John Derbyshire, explains why he believes the Republican Party has been derailed by foolish optimists.
“Conservative activist Kitty Werthmann, who says that President Obama is taking America down the same path as Hitler, attempts to defend her claim”
Oh, THAT should be good!
libpatriot Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Note to Kitty: take your meds that you get from that awful Marxist Medicare, and try to calm down, now.
John Galt Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
She is nuts, no doubt. But THIS is from a Congressman:
Awesome. Apparently comparing things to the holocaust is okay if you are a Dem.
placefield Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
What is that in reference to, and which Congressman?
John Galt Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Health Care.
Rep Alan Grayson.
placefield Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Seems like a little extreme rhetoric to me. I wouldn’t put it in same category of craziness as Kitty’s comment though, although I am willing to contemplate the idea that that may be due to my liberal bias though.
John Galt Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Well, Kitty was trying to compare the act of killing people to the act of killing people. Still, she’s nuts.
Here, the good congressman is trying to compare the act of killing people to the world’s best health care system. Weird.
And he’s nuts.
OldLefty Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
I think that Alan Grayson has learned that the more outrageous the comment, the more it gets covered, the more it gets repeated, the more people believe it.
And your loyal base will send you money.
placefield Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
World’s best health care system with a terrible insurance system. :)
Actually I don’t know if we have the best heath care system but it is up there. Unfortunately it does not include all Americans, at least not in its best form. Government ran health insurance is desperately needed in my opinion.
placefield Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
By the way I am a firm believer that there are plenty of nuts from both parties. It sure is more fun to poke fun at the ones from the other party though. ;)
John Galt Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
I think that Alan Grayson has learned that the more outrageous the comment, the more it gets covered, the more it gets repeated, the more people believe it.
And your loyal base will send you money.
I agree. Both sides are guilty.
By the way I am a firm believer that there are plenty of nuts from both parties. It sure is more fun to poke fun at the ones from the other party though. ;)
ibid
John Galt Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
World’s best health care system with a terrible insurance system. :)
Actually I don’t know if we have the best heath care system but it is up there. Unfortunately it does not include all Americans, at least not in its best form.
Yes, I wish that we could make it less expensive.
Government ran health insurance is desperately needed in my opinion.
I honestly don’t think that having the government run it will accomplish that however.
placefield Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
From what I see government run health insurance has worked for other countries just fine. I do understand the concern of the government running things correctly but Medicare is one of there better run programs, seems to work pretty well. I just see the for profit health insurance system we currently have as a toxin. Not only does it not cover everybody, but the profit made off of gambling on peoples health (with loaded dice mind you) is a drain on both my pocket book and my employers bottom line. I believe by taking the profit out of it we could cover everybody and still save money.
karthiks030977 Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
John:
“I honestly don’t think that having the government run it will accomplish that however.”
I think you’re sticking too hard to principle and less to cold reality:
Private Insurance “owning all the roads” IS the single biggest cause of high costs of healthcare.
Break that stranglehold, costs WILL come down. Insurance companies CAN survive, but not with the current obscene profits obtained purely out of a monopolistic stranglehold of the market.
Lee Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
“Government ran health insurance is desperately needed in my opinion.
I honestly don’t think that having the government run it will accomplish that however.”
I honestly think that the truth is Conservatives just don’t want the government running it on purely ideological grounds versus actual fiscal logic. I am yet to hear/read any argument against it that is not either:
a) Government is just evil
b) Hysteria/Fear with zero evidence that implies government-run will somehow reduce the quality of care, increase bureaucracy or reduce ‘choice’.
c) A patently misleading and selective comparison of government-run programs like Medicare to privately run without accounting for key differences like average age of ‘insured’ (and thus difference in healthcare needs).
d) Misrepresenting the effects of ‘government run’ by using the negative consequences of ‘universal healthcare’ (that private insurance would have as well) such as increased wait in certain procedures etc
But if there is actually an argument with some hard facts that shows privately is better at reducing costs. Then please let me know as hope springs eternal that one day a credible argument might actually emerge versus the phoney propaganda..
John Galt Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
I just see the for profit health insurance system we currently have as a toxin. Not only does it not cover everybody, but the profit made off of gambling on peoples health (with loaded dice mind you) is a drain on both my pocket book and my employers bottom line. I believe by taking the profit out of it we could cover everybody and still save money.
When we say “profit”, we are speaking of the incentive to innovate. Profit is not a 4 letter word. It, with property rights, are what has made America great.
I think you’re sticking too hard to principle and less to cold reality:
I really am trying not to fall back on ideology.
Private Insurance “owning all the roads” IS the single biggest cause of high costs of healthcare.
Have you looked into why insurance is so much less expensive in Wisconsin than in Maine?
but not with the current obscene profits obtained purely out of a monopolistic stranglehold of the market.
Those margins are about 3.4%. And it ain’t no monopoly.
I honestly think that the truth is Conservatives just don’t want the government running it on purely ideological grounds versus actual fiscal logic.
This is not true. We believe that market competition, fair and open competition, are what drives both innovation and price.
There is nothing that the government runs well.
A: Government itself is not evil. Too much of it is.
B: There is evidence all around the world. Not one socialized medicine system is better than that found here in the US.
C: Medicare is also a poorly run system; without comparison to anything else.
D: There will always be rationing. We perfer to ration based on price rather than political connections. For example, how comfortable would you be if Cheny was running health care?
But if there is actually an argument with some hard facts that shows privately is better at reducing costs.
1. Make more doctors.
2. Reduce the regulation dictating who can perform certain procedures.
3. Remove restrictions that force ins. companies to cover such things as acupuncture and maternity care for 67 year old men.
4. Allow ins, to be sold across state lines.
5. Allow insurance bought individually to be tax free.
crh3e Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
JG: “There is nothing that the govt runs well.”
Howabout the military? So we don’t do a good job with our navy, marines, army, and air force?
JG: “Make more doctors.”
Well, this is very needed except many doctors don’t like practicing in our system. Many doctors I know personally (this is anecdotal yes) tell their children to not study medicine. Many can’t stand having an HMO tell he or she how to practice medicine. The Mayo clinic puts their MDs on salaries, which has been working fine for them. Your thoughts?
placefield Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
“When we say “profit”, we are speaking of the incentive to innovate. Profit is not a 4 letter word. It, with property rights, are what has made America great.”
I know profits are not evil in and of themselves. They have motivated some evil, but that is a different subject. Profits do also act as an incentive to innovate but, the insurance companies of who’s profits I was speaking, do not make any products. They don’t create new drugs or cutting edge technology. The only innovation they create is how to collect as much of our money as possible while paying back as little as possible. I don’t think they are evil for this, it is just the nature of the beast, I just think there is a better way.
crh3e Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
totally placefield, a drug company searching for profit is at least inventing new drugs to do such. A company acting as the middleman does not have the same impact on anyone’s health. If anything there desire for the bottomline has adversely affected many Americans in our sickcare system.
John Galt Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
How about the military? So we don’t do a good job with our navy, marines, army, and air force?
We are competing with other government controlled organizations.
Many doctors I know personally (this is anecdotal yes) tell their children to not study medicine.
I’m sure. Who wants to go to school for 12 years, get saddled with 10’s of 1000’s of dollars of debt only to get sued?
The Mayo clinic puts their MDs on salaries, which has been working fine for them. Your thoughts?
The Mayo clinic is awesome. If they have good ideas that work, I think that we should take their lead.
I know profits are not evil in and of themselves. They have motivated some evil
Agreed. But so has political power, religious fanaticism and even marriage.
They don’t create new drugs or cutting edge technology. The only innovation they create is how to collect as much of our money as possible while paying back as little as possible.
Actually, insurance companies do produce good things; they spread risk. Which is very very useful.
But I do agree that insurance companies can be fraudulent. And that when they are, it smacks of a deeper betrayal. This is similar to having bad cops/teachers/religious leaders. We place our trust in these people and institutions. And when they betray that trust it burns.
But that means we should work harder at catching bad people. Not remove the institution altogether.
crh3e Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
I agree with JG, we should be better at prosecuting those who committ fraud. That would be an incentive alone for companies to act right. Good night
Lee Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
John,
“There is nothing that the government runs well.”
That statement has been proven wrong so many times that just reinforces what I stated about a) above. For someone like me this isn’t an ideological battle, its about what is most cost-effective and the best bang for your buck while maintaining our moral obligations to our fellow citizens. If 100% private paid made the most logical sense, I would support it. Unfortunately it does not..
I mean CDC, NIH, FBI, IRS, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and yes the Post Office.
‘not run well’ means to most business people implies things like poor cost control, poor execution and poor leadership/vision.
Unfortunately ‘not run well’ to Conservatives seems to mean ‘run by the government’ when its a government entity and you get into this childish circular reasoning.
“1. Make more doctors.”
No this has nothing to do with private versus public-run.
“2. Reduce the regulation dictating who can perform certain procedures.”
No, this has nothing to do with private versus public-run.
3. Remove restrictions that force ins. companies to cover such things as acupuncture and maternity care for 67 year old men.
Ah yes, this strategy actually RAISES overall costs and is extremely naive in its assumptions! Nice!
4. Allow ins, to be sold across state lines.
Ah yes, the fantasy du jour of Republicans along with tort reform. It’s telling that you never see any numbers/projections quoted for this. Instead there is handwaving that it will increase competition and reduce costs. It ignores the fact there is already ‘competition’ in every state and is another idea based on dubious faith versus sound evidence and fiscal logic.
5. Allow insurance bought individually to be tax free.
I see.. so another ‘amazing’ idea where we let the insurance companies keep their cost model but reduce the cost to individuals by reducing the overall tax revenue and thus increasing our federal deficit..
In short, the only suggestion that you had that would definately reduce costs is opening up procedures to PA’s and NP’s instead of doctors. It’s probable that higher numbers of medical grad’s would help but this is not a slam dunk because we already have huge influxes of foreign trained physicians to join the gravy train and there is no evidence this has reduced costs.
The rest either shifts the costs around to anyone but insurance companies or else simply doesn’t have any evidence whatsoever that it would work..
Lee Reply:
October 1st, 2009 at 12:18 am
John,
I missed some stuff I’d like to comment on..
“Those margins are about 3.4%. And it ain’t no monopoly.”
As I’ve pointed out before although this is true it is billions of dollars. The actual profit figures matter.. If this was a business with a lot of volatility in costs and or market ‘demand’ then it would not be such an issue as the company could easily lose a few billion (or more) in another quarter.
But insurance companies are one of the most stable and predictable business models you can have. Therefore, taking billions of dollars profit and in fact increasing their profit far above the rate of inflation is morally unacceptable.
“This is not true. We believe that market competition, fair and open competition, are what drives both innovation and price.”
There is no ‘innovation’ in insurance so that part of the argument is redundant. However, the ‘fair and open’ competition is the issue. The fact is that you have an effective cartel in medical insurance.
This isn’t hearsay as it obvious when you look at the patterns of increase in profit and the way insurance companies never attack each other. If you analyze carefully their marketing campaigns it is always just a general ‘brand awareness’ strategy versus a ‘We are the best and we differentiate from the others because of xyz’.
In short, everyone wins except the consumer by playing ‘nice’ right now. There is no incentive for real competition and this is why a ‘fair’ public option which received no federal funding makes sense if you actually want to create competition.
Better still, it’s obvious that if you take away the profit need and yet also make the entity national without competition for healthcare providers, you will achieve greater savings still (i.e single-payer).
John Galt Reply:
October 1st, 2009 at 12:21 am
I mean CDC, NIH, FBI, IRS, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and yes the Post Office.
You can not be serious. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security are broke. And the Post Office is broke as well. Further, the price of a stamp has gone up faster than the price of gasoline.
As far as 1-5, you asked me for ideas on what would reduce costs. I gave you other options besides government run.
1. The supply of docs is not in our favor.
2. If I could have a nurse vs a doctor diagnose a simple ear infection, I would save about $100 per visit.
3. Only for people who want acupuncture, aromatherapy and holistic healing. I don’t.
4. Check Maine.
5. Psssttt…Lee, my insurance is already tax free. When provided by my employer, there is no tax levied. If you allow me to purchase my own tax free, the employer is no longer incented to offer me insurance as a benefit. Much like why they don’t buy me clothes, or movie tickets or food. Then, when I become the purchaser, the market becomes free’er.
I’m tired. G’night.
fede Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
“I call upon all of us to do our jobs for the sake of America, for the sake of those dying people and their families,” Florida Rep. Alan Grayson said on the House floor. “I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven’t voted sooner to end this holocaust in America.”
This quote wasn’t JUST in reference to health care.
He was making a statement pertaining to the Harvard Study that suggests 44,785 people die every year because they do not have health care. There is a 25% higher risk of death for the uninsured.
He was not comparing not having health care to the holocaust, he was suggesting these deaths are a holocaust. And since holocaust can also refer to “destruction, or loss of life on a massive scale”, he was right in saying so.
He also said, “We need to care for people, even AFTER their born”
Lee Reply:
October 1st, 2009 at 1:12 am
John,
“You can not be serious. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security are broke. And the Post Office is broke as well. Further, the price of a stamp has gone up faster than the price of gasoline.”
The solvency of those programs has NOTHING to do with how effectively it is run with the resources it has but instead is about the resources provided.
But they are great examples of deflating this myth because you can compare how much of cost of healthcare goes into running it versus private companies. Guess who wins? It’s not even close.. Medicare/Medicaid gets about 10 times the efficiency of private insurance companies.
Please try arguing with logic on how you evaluate running a company and stop throwing back the same old misleading rhetoric that has nothing to do with the ability/effectiveness of the management team.
It’s the same for the Post Office.. Stop claiming its badly run because of the LAWS it has to abide by and instead show me where the management team has dropped the ball that a private team operating with the same legal restrictions could have improved!? How is it not executing!?
As for the rest. I disagreed on 1. and won’t bother to restate the explanation. I agreed with you on 2.
But:
“3. Only for people who want acupuncture, aromatherapy and holistic healing. I don’t.”
I don’t think you understand how/why people seek these treatments. In most cases it is because they have been diagnosed with some condition that conventional medicine has either not completely resolved or has left undesirable side-effects.
Quite simply, one day one of those people in that position could be you.. It’s just totally naive to suggest you’ll never be that person desperate enough to try something different that is proven to work in many cases.
“4. Check Maine.”
What’s your point? Maine has higher rates because of the stringent legislative requirements for insuring people in Maine. Therefore, it is irrelevant to the insurance company whether _it_ is in Maine or Texas and the actuarial risk is the same! So opening up competition across lines would not help here at all!
5. The point is reducing ‘costs’. While it would be better if our system wasn’t so employer focused (and we could even find common ground there), what you wrote would do nothing to reduce actual costs and instead is nothing but a tax-cut which isn’t free!
Lee Reply:
October 1st, 2009 at 1:36 am
“4. Check Maine.”
Actually, I take that back as the cost would be likely based on the legislature where the insurance company is based versus the insured.
Still, while you reduce the costs of someone in Maine, it is just doing so by circumventing state regulations which are protecting the vulnerable. So in essence you are cutting costs to some and raising it for others (those who are no longer protected by legislation).
That amounts to another glorified shell game versus a valid way of cutting costs.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
“The author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism, John Derbyshire, explains why he believes the Republican Party has been derailed by foolish optimists.”
The foolish optimists that think Reagonomics still worked, by chance?
average james Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Ha ha ha
I don’t see anything optomistic about the Republicans these days.
Isn’t this the end of the American dream, I mean Obama won right? He’s single handedly ruining our country, right ?
Seriously, what Republican optimism ?
They are optomistic that Obama will fail ?
September 29th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
“Victoria Gotti sits down with Alan to discuss the fascinating revelations in her new book, This Family of Mine: What It Was Like Growing Up Gotti”
Don’t know about John Gotti, but I imagine that most mob fathers wouldn’t allow red wine to be served at family dinners after they’d just whacked someone. Might spoil the occasion.
libpatriot Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Hope that last remark doesn’t get me whacked, now…
average james Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
ha ha ha
good night Lib.
EricG Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:20 am
You don’t want to know, Libpatriot.
A caller touched on it. Gotti is a monster.
I found it hard to listen to some of that.
A “complex man” … Charles Manson is a “complex man” too…
September 29th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I think I followed “Kitty Werthmann” down the highway into town this afternoon.
She drives a Buick. Dinged up from where she keeps running into the door frame each time she pulls into the garage. She can’t hardly see over the dash, all you can see of her in the driver’s seat are her hands high on the steering wheel. Weaving back and forth all over the road. Speeding up and slowing down. Driving through stopsigns.
Occasionally slowing to roll down her window and yell at the rest of us, “whatsa matta? Don’t cha know how ta drive?!”
jasperjava Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 3:04 am
;-)
Nazis calling other people Nazis. Precious.
TDro319 Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Hey, isn’t she the one making right turns from the left turn lanes?
September 29th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Kitty Werthmann: wingnut parrot.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
watched that limbaugh – jay leno interview tonite…
talk about a wingnut parrot who is the poster boy for the rest of the wingnuts, including Ms. Werthmann
EricG Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:23 am
I love that it was the worst ever ratings for Leno … the Limbo came into the air and people run from the dial!
TDro319 Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I really hope you’re right, Eric. I really hate that fat f**k chickenhawk Limbaugh!
September 29th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
interview at hulu.com
September 29th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Colmes pushed him away like he was only another nut but your (Hardin/American Police Force) caller was partly on to something.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ifOx0LPKy5B_0KAyPHyNTEqdQz6QD9AM0VM80
The vacant Hardin prison is being turned over to a private security contractor. I found a couple of websites speculating APF is related to Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves these days).
This is strange stuff.
EricG Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:46 am
No doubt, I smell a Haliburton / Blackwater type organization behind this as well.
A research staff might be able to make sense of this but that’s not enough information for me to work with.
Well I don’t like this ’shady money’ that seems to be funding this but if they follow through on these promises and uphold all the laws is might not be as bad as it seems.
I don’t see why they won’t disclose the parent corporation. It begs the question of legitimate the money is and what kind of corporation wants to anonymously own jails.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:06 am
John Derbyshire deserved even more harsh words than he received from the caller addressing The Civil Rights Act.
“I’m selling wisdom.”
He’s selling selfish pride and superiority complexes. His “wisdom” doesn’t extend past the tip of his own.
The “core of depravity” that he speaks of in the center of his skull.
John can say he thinks his ideology is superior, or his social agendas, but to say that he and those like him are actually better people is just disgusting.
John can say he thinks art is not art, and I can say that his view is no view.
Like a vapid hole of arrogance, sexism, bigotry and hatred instead of a stance.
…
I would like to quote someone I heard on the radio recently that summed this kind of nonsense up:
“What I see now from conservatives like the worst of liberalism from the 60’s.”
Exactly. They are telling us that we are going to die painfully, they are better than you in every way, and everyone not agreeing with them is a liar.
These people are quite literally trying to tear this country to the ground because they think everyone is as miserable as they are.
Bunch of adults who need to grow the hell up and act like men and women instead of bitter little hate-mongers.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:10 am
http://open.salon.com/blog/eric_lightborn/2009/02/21/the_greatest_failing_of_the_liberal_movement
The great failing of conservatism is the acceptance of sexism, bigotry and racism as part of their ideology.
The great failing of liberalism is expecting logic to win out in all scenarios.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:35 am