Columbus Day: Time To Apologize To Native Americans?
Columbus discovered a new world…to him. But it wasn’t a new world to the Native Americans already here. Now there is a Senate bill that offers Native Americans a formal apology.
“I am pleased that the Senate approved this important language,” bill sponsor U.S. Rep. Dan Boren, D-Okla., said, adding he would work to ensure the language stays in the bill when it goes to conference committee. “Our nation has waited far too long to make this official apology to the native peoples in Oklahoma and the U.S.”
Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., the resolution’s Senate sponsor, said the measure would seek reconciliation and would offer an official apology to Native Americans across the country “for the hurtful choices the federal government made in the past.”
Brownback and Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, said the resolution would not authorize or act as a settlement of claims against the United States.
How about Spain, France, England the Dutch, just to name a few, apologizing for their part in “conquering” the New World? True, Native Americans got a raw deal and still are, but why should twenty-first Americans apologize for the actions of sixteenth and seventeenth century Europeans?
We might want to correct some of the way twentieth century America treated them…that would be better than an apology I think.
flap Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
A lot of people got a raw deal. Times were different…doesn’t excuse it…but that’s the way things were.
Certain things such as slavery, mistreatment of Indians, abortion, are so heinous that they can never be really “repaid.” How can you repay unrepayable deeds? Apologies in a Senate bill don’t necessarily cut it. Nothing really does. I think Indian Reservations are a good thing in some respects.
jasperjava Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
For once we agree, Flap. Apologies are hollow, and true reparations are impossible.
What we can do is improve conditions on Indian Reservations.
Another thing we can do is teach the real story of Columbus, instead of the sanitized version we’re all familiar with. His treatment of the natives as governor of Hispañola was so horrible that he was sent back to Spain in chains.
flap Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
“instead of the sanitized version we’re all familiar with”
I’m not necessarily against that…history is history. However, history is pretty much a whole bunch of people doing bad things to one another, punctuated by good things occasionally. I’m not for sanitizing it, but it is important to teach with the context of the times in mind.
For example…our Founding Fathers had slaves. We could teach that they were horrible, horrible people. I don’t think that’s reasonable.
But, insofar as we should be careful not to get to political when teaching history, I completely agree.
EricG Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
No you don’t, Flap.
You support forgetting the incredible failures and destruction of our national wealth under Bush II.
That’s a greater sin than any other an American could commit right now.
To let the previous admin run away from crushing the national budget.
Oh wait, that right.
You all decided to blame the new guy and call yourselves “American” for doing so…
No, that makes all of you “un-American”.
Get used to it. You all have lost your way and history will remember that the GOP, conservatives and neo-conservatives are all on the wrong side of history.
flap Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
And you spew a bunch of political ideas and rhetoric, EricG…EXACTLY my point. In fifty years we’ll be able to accurately interpret the Bush administration instead of leaving it to zealots such as yourself to put your own spin on it.
“You all have lost your way and history will remember that the GOP, conservatives and neo-conservatives are all on the wrong side of history.”
As long as your party is the party of rampant, basically unrestricted abortion I know for a fact I’m on the correct side of history and you’re on the incorrect side of history, but keep telling yourself that abortion isn’t that big of a deal. Just like people who were “pro-choice” for slavery, right? None of my business, right?
EricG Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Zealots, that’s a larf.
That’s really funny.
You are sitting here calling a person who wants to be fair to all values and faiths a “zealot” when you yourself want everyone to see the Bible as immutable and concrete.
You’re a trip.
–
You’re on the wrong side of the abortion issue, the war issue, the gay rights issue and on and on and on and on.
I will never convince you, but you truly are sided up with the fascists and the hate-zealots.
God will forgive, but I don’t.
Wise up or get the hell out of my country. We don’t need domestic terrorists and anti-democratic liars in this nation.
jasperjava Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:55 am
“But, insofar as we should be careful not to get to political when teaching history, I completely agree.”
Teaching about Columbus without including his genocidal actions and the consequences of his discovery IS a political stance. It’s the kind of white-washing that tries to discourage thinking in order to keep people ignorant.
It becomes a story of a hero who sailed the ocean blue and discovered a new world where the most wonderful country on earth came to be established. In other words, a sappy, saccharine version of “history”.
Same with the founding fathers. We rightly abhor slavery, but we can’t understand the United States without looking very carefully at what was done. You’re absolutely right that we have to understand their actions in context.
jasperjava Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 2:10 am
Flap may be right that abortion comes to be viewed as an abhorrent thing in the future. However, we know that conservatism as an ideology is on the dustheap of history. The unregulated free market almost destroyed the entire world economy. It is also the cause of unbearable injustice in the distribution of wealth, exploitation of workers, environmental disasters, and many other social ills. Social conservatism is also on the wrong side of history, by definition, because it seeks to return to a real or imagined past instead of looking towards the future.
If abortion becomes socially unacceptable, it won’t be because of the opposition of conservatives. Conservatives cannot persuade, because their ideology is bankrupt. They seek only to impose their values on everyone else instead of proposing realistic solutions.
In order for abortion to become a rare procedure, used only when necessary, social conditions must change. Young couples, single mothers must be supported financially. There must be incentives to use contraception, or failing that, to carry the baby to term. It must be done without violating the freedom of choice, one of the most sacred freedoms we have.
If you want abortion to disappear, the old remedies of hitting people over the head with oppressive laws or religious morality simply won’t work. Human beings demand freedom. There is no freedom without the freedom of choice. You need to find more creative solutions. This is not something that conservatives are good at.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Columbus didn’t invent the new world, he merely discovered a land no one knew about. This “annual issue” is silly. Years ago I read “Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee” and the history of how we treated native Americans is terrible. But we have made great attempts to help their culture–education, funding, health care, etc. I’m sure there’s nothing we can do to influence how a liberal congress will act on this non-issue, but let’s be fair in how we have attempted to right an old sin. At the same time aren’t native American’s “winning” with their casinos? That’s a greater tragedy!!
jasperjava Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
It’s not just the “liberal Congress”. See Alan’s post above: Senator Brownback is one of the most conservative members of the Senate.
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
One of the best things to happen with regards to government policy towards Native Americans in recent history was the presidency of William J. Clinton, who made sure that the Bureau of Indian Affairs was 90% staffed by Native Americans by the time he was done.
OmahaJoe: “At the same time aren’t native American’s ‘winning’ with their casinos? That’s a greater tragedy!!”
It IS perhaps a tragedy that gambling is being viewed as the great panacea to solve all economic problems for Native Americans, and it’s questionable whether Native American reservations are getting a fair cut from corporate sponsors for the casinos built upon their reservations. But I have seen some more hospital construction on the reservations nearest me, the reservations of the Tohono O’odam and the San Xavier, so medical care seems to be improving for SOME Native American populations. But it just may be that they are still being cheated & exploited to some extent, and promised too much.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I just wanted to wish my Canadian friends, a “Happy Thanksgiving”.
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Jazmine, as a fan of Thanksgiving Day in the United States, I’ve found it interesting that Canada has a Thanksgiving Day also, celebrated a few weeks earlier. I’ve also wondered if its traditions were somewhat different, and what historical occasion inspired it.
jazmine Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Here’s a helpful link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_%28Canada%29#History_of_Thanksgiving_in_Canada
It was a thanking of the Harvest, which many nations celebrate, to some degree(including Native Americans.)Oktoberfest, also comes to mind :)
From a historic point of view, many of our annual celebrations are derived from paganism and their deities. It makes for an interesting read, when researching the history of our holidays.
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Oh, and “Happy Thanksgiving” to our friends in Canada, also!
jazmine Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
I’m surprised, (not really) that seeing how many Canadians blog on here, your the only one that extended that greeting. Way to go Lib:)
libpatriot Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
My pleasure and my honor, Jazmine. Canada is one of the best friends my country has EVER had, and I sure don’t mind extending warm wishes to the people there!
jazmine Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
You”re sweet:)))
October 12th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
“Our nation has waited far too long to make this official apology to the native peoples in Oklahoma and the U.S.”
I’m wondering if the Native American tribes that were here when Columbus landed will begin to offer written apologies and reparation plans for the tribes they conquered? Certainly the destruction of one Nation by another is bad bad bad in any case, even if it one Nation “not America” wiping out the culture and knowledge of another Nation “not America?”
Or is it only the USA that continues to need to apologize?
OldLefty Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
All you can do is what you know is right.
If your grand parent harmed someone else when they moved into a new neighborhood, do you not apologize because someone else’s great great great grandparent may have harmed someone before your family moved into the neighborhood?
John Galt Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I don’t apologize because I didn’t do anything wrong. I find it sill for people who didn’t do anything to apologize to people who had nothing done to them.
But if people ought make reparations, then I think that people out make reparations. I mean, what really we are proposing we do is apologize to the most brutal and successful native americans in the area, right? The others were killed off by their brethren before Columbus even got here.
But by all means, lemme me, whose family wasn’t even here yet, apologize to a people who defeated their rivals in battle.
OldLefty Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I think I was most likely a genocide…..with biological weapons.
So I guess if they or anyone else for that matter, obtained weapons from somewhere else, and conquered us, we would just accept that we were defeated in battle.
And who is talking about reparations?
GuidoVanHorn Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
In a haze these days
I pull up to the stoplight
I can feel that somethings not right
I can feel that someones blasting me
With hate and bass
Sending dirty vibes my way
Cause my great great great great grandad
Made someones great great great great grandaddy slaves
It wasnt my idea
It wasnt my idea
It never was my idea
I just drove to the store
For some preparation h
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
John Galt, we can’t realistically make reparations to the Native Americans by all of us non-Native Americans moving off the continent to give them back all the land, now can we? So is it going to KILL us to at least apologize and recognize the injustices done to them? Is it really gonna hurt YOU?
John Galt Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Lib, my point is I am unclear who I should be apologizing too? The Native Americans that are alive today or the Native Americans that the existing Native American’s killed during their wars and their conquests?
Sheesh, this whole business of people who didn’t do anything to another group of people and trying to apologize is just, is just…aww, it hurts my head.
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
JG, I mean the Native Americans who are alive today, as it will ease tensions and make our country stronger and more united in at least ONE way (it’s no doubt way too much to hope that we can be united in ALL ways, as representative democracy can be a messy, contentious business most times).
But, we’re just talking about OUR GOVERNMENT making a formal apology to the Native Americans of today. I don’t think anybody is suggesting that YOU PERSONALLY should go door-to-door making apologies on all the reservations (bet that wouldn’t be a good idea, anyway).
“…aww, it hurts my head.”
Wow, I guess it DOES hurt you, some. Sorry!
craig7120 Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 1:08 am
‘Lib, my point is I am unclear who I should be apologizing too?’
wow a bit callous and personalized, insecure much?
October 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
As a symbolic gesture I support this.
But I would rather we never “celebrate” Columbus Day ever again and start teaching children the real American History.
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
EricG, I’m with you!
October 12th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
The time to apologize to “native Americans” would be on “native American” Day.
The science detailing who is actually “native” to North America, if anyone, is still incomplete, but I’ll go with the label just to be agreeable.
On Columbus Day, the European-descended majority celebrates Columbus for leading the way to the New World. I don’t have any problem with that.
And why should I? How much of Christmas actually has anything to do with Christ? Damn little. And this is no different. Like most holidays it’s an excuse to have a parade and light up the barbecue and drink a lot of beer. And there’s always some group that wants to drag in a lot of history and make people think about stuff. Well nobody wants any history. They just want to drink a lot of beer. And that, in a nutshell, is the history of the human race.
Debby Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Whew Rocky!!!! Your view point is rather limited if you believe all Christians celebrate Christmas as an excuse to drink beer. Many Native Americans celebrate a Ceremony or event with a Give-Away. Christians have a similiar tradition with Christmas. I think that is wonderful. Because of that Tradition, many people in the USA and around the world are able to heat their homes and provide an income for their families during the harsh winter months. Maybe, for some, those working in the Alcohol Industry also benefit! Yet I know many Christians who spend the day celebrating by going to church, reading the story of Christ’s birth, honoring the elderly or enjoying one of our greatest gifts…OUR FAMILIES. Personally, I honor how any Religion ot Spiritual Belief practices their Ceremony of choice. Judging how someone celebrates or not is way to controlling for me.
Debby Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
By the way….I think the Norwegians were here before Coloumbus! Taking a personal and moral inventory and admitting when we were wrong is healthy and procedes changes in attitudes or actions. To me, celebrating Columbus day is akin to celebrating genocide. We can’t change the past but we can make it better now! I think the Native Americans treasure the lands they have been able to retain but we would need to ask the Native Americans. It is way too arrogant to make assuptions on what they think is repectful or not!
Debby Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
typo..” respectful or not” and Columbus.
John Galt Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
By the way….I think the Norwegians were here before Coloumbus!
I think you’re right. Google “Kensington Stone”
I think it was those darn Masons.
October 12th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
“Your view point is rather limited if you believe all Christians celebrate Christmas as an excuse to drink beer.”
“I know many Christians who spend the day celebrating by going to church…”
Yeah I know many people too. Lemme know when you find a study. I’ll admit you tell a nice story, but I think you’re describing a very small segment of the population.
October 13th, 2009 at 1:56 am
[...] Columbus Day: Time To Apologize To Native Americans? (alan.com) [...]
October 13th, 2009 at 6:27 am
I suppose we should rename Columbus, Ohio now. Maybe give it some Indian name.
Hey, anyone out there in liberaland who has property or a house that is sitting on land that was once occupied by an Indian tribe should give it back to that tribe.
Put your money where your mouth is.
OldLefty Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:47 am
You don’t think that giving land back after hundreds of years, and officially recognizing invasion, occupation and deliberately spreading smallpox are different?
Actually, “who has property or a house that is sitting on land that was once occupied by an Indian tribe should give it back to that tribe”…….Is EXACTLY what the Israelis did.
Daddio Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:52 am
The Indians were conquered. This land became the greatest nation in the world after that. The Indians were basically nomads anyway and never really laid claim to any portion of land, although they fought other tribes for land. For hunting basically.
The Israelis gave up land and what did they get in return? Rockets in their back yards. Dozens every day.
Daddio Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 8:59 am
What is with all this apology stuff anyway? America is the greatest nation on earth. We are the most compassionate nation ever. We have done more to help out foreign nations than any nation in the history of the world. We have freed more people, vaccinated more people against disease, lifted more poeple up, than any other nation in history.
We beat back totalitarianism in Nazi Germany. We defeated Imperial Japan and their expansionist ideals. We defeated the Soviet Union in the Cold War. We pushed back Mussilini.
And for all the good we have done in the world for the last 230 years we get no thanks. And you liberals, all you want us to do is to continue to apologize. America owes no apology to any nation. Or any people.
OldLefty Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:01 am
“The Indians were conquered.”
………….
That’s what every conquerer including those you don’t like say.
That’s was Sadaam’s intent when he gassed the Kurds….That did not make it any less immoral.
Again, I say, if the American Indians wanted to fight back for THEIR land, and got massive funding from foreign countries, it would be the same thing, and you would shooting rockets into THEIR back yards, and they would be calling YOU a terrorist.
OldLefty Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:09 am
What is with all this America is the greatest nation on earth. We are the most compassionate nation ever. ?
Sounds like the overly indulgent parent….”Not MY little Pookie!”
The teaparty people don’t seem to think so.
You conservatives. all you want us to do is to continue to blindly follow whatever the government tells without question.
Yes, we did , defeat Imperial Japan and their expansionist ideals. We defeated the Soviet Union in the Cold War. We pushed back Mussilini.
(Although most corporate conservatives at the time supported Hitler more than FDR.)
We ALSO overthrew democratically elect governments in favor of brutal dictatorships, whish then caused even MORE problems, leading to even MORE violence.
Daddio Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:12 am
I stick by my words Lefty. America has nothing to apologize for. America needs not apologize to any nation. America stands tall among nations.
AMERICA IS THE GREATEST NATION ON THE FACE OF GOD’S GREEN EARTH. No apologies here.
OldLefty Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Daddio,
Again, sounds like an irresponsible parent telling everyone else, “My little angel is the perfect child…..” therefore could not have cheated been smoking, shoplifting, fighting, etc.
AMERICA IS THE GREATEST NATION as long as we do our jobs, warts and all., you seem to be afraid to admit there can ever be warts.
What if Obama sent troops to prop up Hugo Chavez?
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:38 am
Daddio: “The Indians were conquered.”
Treaties were made with the Indians, and the Indians were betrayed and backstabbed when those treaties were broken. Get it right, Daddio.
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:43 am
“The Indians were basically nomads anyway and never really laid claim to any portion of land”
You tell another whopper, Daddio. Many Native Americans laid claim to territory, such as the Navajo and the Cherokee. A number of tribes raised crops within the same land areas for generations.
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Willy: “Rockets in their back yards. Dozens every day.”
Once again, you make up numbers out of whole cloth. Dozens EVERY DAY? My, how you exaggerate!
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 1:02 am
Daddio: “I suppose we should rename Columbus, Ohio now. Maybe give it some Indian name.”
That might mean something, if we as a nation were in the habit of celebrating Columbus, Ohio, Day, but we don’t.
“We have freed more people..”
Native Americans were betrayed by our government when treaties wwith them were broken, and they were herded onto reservations. How is that FREEING them, Daddio?
“Hey, anyone out there in liberaland who has property or a house that is sitting on land that was once occupied by an Indian tribe should give it back to that tribe. Put your money where your mouth is.”
Hey, Daddio, your reading comprehension skills aren’t very high, are they? This was about making a formal apology, not catering to the impossibility of giving back all the land we stole from Native Americans.
“America owes no apology to any nation. Or any people.”
For starters, Daddio, you might google “The Trail Of Tears”, read it and learn something.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:42 am
America has nothing to apologize for. And what good would it do?
OldLefty Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:10 am
It acknowledges that AMERICA, (not just a few bad apples), knows right from wrong.
Daddio Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:13 am
America knows right from wrong. America needs to apologize to no other nation. PERIOD!!
Daddio Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:14 am
I must go. Have a good day. And I won’t apologize for saying that. :)
Lib Patriot Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 1:07 am
Daddio, you unwittingly have added another good reason for why our government SHOULD issue a formal apology for its past treatment of Native Americans: because it offends your swell-headed arrogance.
And I won’t apologize for saying THAT.
X-D
October 13th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Where is Japan’s apology for Pearl Harbor?
Where is Germany’s apology to Israel and the Jews?
Where is North Vietnam’s apology for the Killing Fields?
Where is North Korea’s apology to S. Korea?
Where is Castro’s apology to all the Cubans he put in poverty?
Where is Islam’s apology for the destruction of our Twin Towers?
OldLefty Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Germany and much of Islam have apologized.
But one could ALSO say:
Where is Fulgencio Batista’s apology to all the Cubans he put in poverty?
Where is the French, US and Diem’s apology for the Killing Fields?
Where is Pinochet’s and Kissinger’s apology for the genocide in Chile?
Where is the Shah and his supporters apology to Iran?
Where is the Soviet and US apology to the Afgans for the chaos and the landmines and the Taliban?
Where is the apology from the supporters of Franco?
Where is the apology to Indonesia for Suharto?
You can only be responsible for your own country, as you can only be responsible for your own child.
If my child harms someone, I will apologize and hold the child accountable, even if someone else does not apologize and makes excuses for THEIR child.
Sometimes I think the difference is that the left thinks of the country as ‘our child’, and our citizens as the parents, while the right thinks of the country as ‘as our Daddy’, and our citizens as the children.
OldLefty Reply:
October 13th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Germany and much of Islam have apologized.
But one could ALSO say:
Where is Fulgencio Batista’s apology to all the Cubans he put in poverty?
Where is the French, US and Diem’s apology for the Killing Fields?
Where is P1nochet’s and Kissinger’s apology for the genocide in Chile?
Where is the Shah and his supporters apology to Iran?
Where is the Soviet and US apology to the Afgans for the chaos and the landmines and the Taliban?
Where is the apology from the supporters of Franco?
Where is the apology to Indonesia for Suharto?
You can only be responsible for your own country, as you can only be responsible for your own child.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:18 am