Democrat Bill Owens The Winner In NY-23
November 3rd, 2009, 11:59 PM EST
This seat had been held by Republican John McHugh. The region had been considered solidly Republican for more than 100 years. It was the most closely watched race of the night.
He defeated Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman, who was backed by national conservative and GOP leaders, who was disenchanted with the positions taken by Republican nominee Dede Scozzafava. Scozzafava, out of money and running a poor third in the polls, dropped out of the race on Saturday and endorsed the Democratic candidate on Sunday.
!
Don’t know WHAT it means in terms of political analysis, but I think I like it…
November 4th, 2009 at 12:04 am
Fox News Predicts Democrat Bill Owens The Winner In NY-23
Debating this with friends today. The big topic was “moderate”. As in the Republican candidate was a moderate and the Republicans pushed her to the curb.
Question:
What is a moderate? What issues and stances have to be held to be considered moderate?
pierre Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 7:36 am
INDEPENDENTS WON
FOX-CONS- NEWS TEABAGGERS PARTY LOST
DEMOCRATS= DID NOT SHOW UP(lost)
Palin/Rush/Hannity/Beck=Lost
Daddio Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:22 am
A moderate is one who is similar to a fair weather fan in sports. Always goes for the team of the day.
A moderate doesn’t stand for anything. A fence sitter.
OldLefty Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:29 am
Sometimes a moderate is one who does not pander to the whims of the lowest common denominator, sometimes it’s someone who knows something radical can not fly EVEN if they think it is right.
I see NO connection between those conservatives who are trying to purge the party of moderates and standing for anything other than personal power…..
‘Principles!!….What name so???
placefield Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Daddio,
Are you saying that someone has to conform to the extreme views of their party in order to stand for something. Many of us, true to our convictions, do not agree with our party accross the board.
John Galt Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 10:23 am
So, to all ya’ll.
Are you a moderate? Far right or far left?
OldLefty Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Going out for now, but I could not resist:
“The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out, the conservative adopts them.”
Mark Twain – Notebook, 1898
karthiks030977 Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Daddido shows up with what appears to be either his lack of understanding of English, or Frog-In-The-Well.
Lets say there are 10 issues debated.
On issue 1,2,3,4 I take 1 position.
On issue 5,6,7,8,9,10 I take a different position.
Now you add up these statistics across all people in the population.
Now…say my position on issues 1,2,3,4 “agreed with the Far Right”, and position on issues 5,6,7,8,9,10 “agreed with the Far Left”, would this make me “Far Right”?”Far Left”?”Moderate”?”
“Moderates dont stand for anything” …dont make me laugh. A statistical definition of “Far Right” and “Far Left” is the basis to say “Moderates dont stand for anything”??? Do you understand what you’re talking about Willy?
John Galt Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 11:36 am
so, are you left, right or moderate?
karthiks030977 Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I dont like to use a statistic of OTHER human beings to qualify my positions.
Did I not make this clear in my above message John?
John Galt Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Did I not make this clear in my above message John?
No.
You aren’t speaking clearly. Makes you left I guess ;-)
karthiks030977 Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I postulated above:
1.The definition of “Left” and “Right” NEEDS people to take positions on every issue used to make a definition of “Left”,”Right”,”Moderate”, or whatever.
2.Since the classification (Left,Right etc) NEEDS people to take positions, making a statement “Moderates dont stand for anything” is as absurd a statement as anyone, even Willy could make.
3.Coming to you: why do you care about these “Left” “Right” aggregattions?I thought you “stood for things”?
jasperjava Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“Moderates don’t stand for anything” (Rush Limbaugh’s talking point, brought to you by Daddio) is ridiculous.
Moderation is, in and of itself, a stand. It’s a stand that says that you sometimes have to compromise to make some progress. It’s a stand that says that pragmatism is often more useful than strict adherence to ideological dogma.
I’m a leftie, but I’m not opposed to moderation. We already compromised on healthcare reform by bringing up a public option instead of single-payer. The Republicans refused to meet us even part of the way there, so we’re justified to go with our original compromise, and even added an opt-out provision to sweeten the deal.
The trouble with the rabid right-wing extremists is that even moderate centrists like President Obama are “left-liberal-socialist-communist-jihadist-Muslim-Black panther-Weathermen” in their distorted, psychotic worldview. Ideological extremists like the Republican ultra-right will never accept any compromise. They are fascists who believe that they alone are guardians of the Truth, and any opposition to their plans is treason.
November 4th, 2009 at 12:26 am
Where is the story about the Virginia Governor’s race Alan? This looks like the start of the comback by the Republicans.
OldLefty Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Let me repeat:
In 2001, commentators argued Dem wins in NJ and VA had little national significance.
Mort Kondracke: “We have no way of knowing” how 2001 outcome would affect 2002 midterms. (Fox News’ Special Report with Brit Hume, 11/5/2001)
Mara Liasson: “A handful of off-year elections can’t be used to predict” outcome of 2002 midterms..” (NPR’s Morning Edition, 11/7/2001)
Dick Morris: “If you have a Republican president, people are going to vote Democrat, and if you have a Democrat president, they’re going to vote Republicans.”
“[N]ow the Democrats are picking them all off because Bush is president. People want divided government, and that’s what you’re seeing, and that’s what you will see in ‘02, a Democratic trend, not because they don’t like Bush” (Fox News’ Hannity & Colmes, 11/6/2001)
Michael Barone: “I don’t think that the issues and personalities” in Virginia and New Jersey races “are going to be congruent with very many” races in 2002 or 2004. [Special Report, 11/5/2001; via Nexis)
Laura Ingraham: “Both sides are going to spin this,” but “to call this some kind of watershed moment against Republican views is nonsense.” (Hannity & Colmes, 11/7/2001)
Then we have:
The NY-23 election was an obsessive interest to everybody when it looked like an insurgent conservative might win. That fit the narrative. But when it turned out that in fact what happened was that Doug Hoffman, drove an easily winnable moderate Republican out of the race, then lost to a Democrat in a district that had been Republican for 140 years – suddenly the story seemed much less important
Also the story of
John Garamendi, a much more liberal Democrat won in California’s 10th.
TDro319 Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
“Where is the story about the Virginia Governor’s race Alan?”
Yeah. And where is the story about democrats winning the other 8 races compared to republican’s 2 wins.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Well, wingnuts, you must be so proud.
First, Hoffman, and his Armey of teabagging fools (becky,palin, pawlenty, etc.),turned their claws on the selected REPUBLICAN candidate, Scozzofava.
Then Hoffman got himself defeated by a DEMOCRAT, in a district that has not voted for a Democratic congressman since Ulysses Grant was president. (1869)
Debby Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 10:30 am
I don’t think we should warn them, Southern Girl Lib, as my brother says, “Palin and Pawlenty look rather look, with egg all over their faces!”
November 4th, 2009 at 9:45 am
“Look rather Good, with Egg all over their faces!” Gotta slow down and double check!WOWZA!
November 4th, 2009 at 10:35 am
I have a couple of question about the election.
Did District 23, in New York go with Obama in the last election? I thought they did. Perhaps, I may have misheard.
My other question pertains to the new Virginia governor, McDonnel. From what I understand, he ran as a moderate. Is this guy a conservative who ran as a moderate or is he an actual Republican moderate.
luv2lift48 Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
he’s a repuberateicancrat..sorta like Liberman
burqa Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I am in Virginia.
It’s kind of hard to tell about McDonnell.
The centerpiece of Deeds’ campaign was a paper McDonnell wrote roughly 20 years ago as a 34 year-old grad student that basically hewed to the “Famly values” line.
McDonnell said his views have moderated since then.
McDonnell at least tried to look more moderate, but let enough clues loose that rabid conservatives were not too too alarmed the way they got to be in NY23.
You have heard Deeds ran a poor campaign. He did.
It could be said to resemble a right-wing wedge issue campaign. Deeds is also is from the mountains where there is no political power and is not the telegenic, smooth, pretty-boy McDonnell is.
McDonnell’s campaign was not the fear-and-smear, wedge issue sort of campaign that has led to so much defeat for the righties in recent years.
It was not Virginia suddenly turning back to red. Kaine and our two senators, Warner and Webb would have stump-whupped McDonnell…
November 4th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Owens wins?
Obviously a referendum on Obama…
BarryB Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Let’s see. Is Bill Owen, a Blue Dog type Democrat? If so, I’d say the Far Left should watch it. Same would apply to Far Right, as Hoffman did lose in a predominantly Republican district.
I suspect that voters are wanting candidates who are centrist and not Far Left Liberals or Far Right Conservatives.
burqa Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Maybe it was a referendum on McCain…
burqa Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Today, Limpbaugh denied it was a referendum on him….
November 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Hoffman made the race a lot closer than it should have been. After all, he didn’t have the backing of the Republican party till the very end. He was up against all the millions of dollars the Republican party threw into Scozafava and the millions of dollars the Dems threw into Owens campaign.
If Hoffman returns in 2010 to run for that seat he will most certainly win, especially if Owens votes lockstep with the liberals in Congress and votes for a federally controled government healthcare bill.
Southern Girl Lib Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Congress is not voting on a “federally controlled government healthcare bill.” It’s not socialist either. Or marxist. Did I leave anything out? Oh yea, keep your guvment hands off my medicare!
karthiks030977 Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Hey SGL: Are you getting tired of Alan’s Carrie ‘coverage’?I was waaaaaaaiting for a comment from you on the thread :-).
Southern Girl Lib Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Basically, I’ve given up. Alan loves the hot chicks….:))
November 5th, 2009 at 8:44 am
“Hoffman made the race a lot closer than it should have been.”
…………..
He had tons of money from national special interests.
95 percent of Hoffman’s donations came from individuals and PACs based outside of the district. The campaign’s biggest backer is the Washington-based Club for Growth
Daddio Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 8:58 am
A mere pittance compared to his rivals, both Owens and Scozzafava.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:51 am